Pakistan Air Force has an edge over Indian Air Force: Indian Parliamentary panel

[DIRECT ACTION]

You fought and lost against China!! Why don't you care about that??

who told you we don't care about china?? pakistan is less powerful than china so Pakistan become benchmark

 

[JohnyD]

Why always comparing to Pakistan?

dont be kiddish by asking this basic question. ..we are natural enemies who have fought couple of full fledged WARs... that is not the case with any of the countries in our our neighborhood...So when we do the assessment of strength or weakness, it natural we start the comparison with Pakistan...which is to ensure the minimum level of deterrence is being maintained at any point in time....In ideal scenario, India should always posses way higher level of deterrence against Pakistan considering the China factor..The day we see our squadrons falling short of that of even Pakistan, situation is alarming for us! no matter how best fighter jets we have in our arsenal.!

 

[jarves]

. LCA would also take upto 5 more years provided final clearance is obtained, but the IAF wants blockII (status is unknown).

First prototype will fly in 2018.Total 4 prototypes will be created(SP standards) before 2019 and FOC will be obtained by 2022.This is the plan for LCAMK2.

Going on the figures in the news for MMRCA, 126 Rafaels for $20 Billion( Some Sources Put it at 28-30 Billion $)spread over a time line of 5 years (starting from 2015), that is $4 Billion yearly that IAF needs for Rafales...Looking at the Budget of IAF at $5 Billion Yearly, they certainly need another $4 Billion every year to complete the deal...it might be difficult but not impossible to secure such funds.

Hi,
Your post is not correct.That $22 Billion needs to be calculated over 30 to 40 years. Rafale's immediate purchase price is around $90 Million. For 126 jets that's $11.5 Billion. Add base infrastructure, training and maintenance, that's another $2 Billion over the next 10 years. Even if we assume all of this costs $15 Billion, we will still make the payment based on delivery of the aircraft, so it will still take 10 years. That's $1.5 Billion every year for the next 10 years. Then the remaining money, around $10-20 Billion will be spent over the remaining 20-30 years.

So are you saying IAFcan't afford paying $1.5 Billion every year?

The capital budget for the IAF may be $6 Billion today, but in 10 years time this would have quadrupled to $24 Billion. So,IAF still can't afford to pay $1.5 Billion every year over the next 10 years? I have assumed we will take 10 years from the date of signing the contract for all 126 jets to be delivered.

The IAF's capital budget was a Billion in 2000, today it has increased by 5 to 6 times. What makes you think it will remain stagnant over the next 15 years?

The MKI program as of 2012 was $12 Billion. In 2000 the defense budget was $10 Billion. The Rafale program will have costed us $15 Billion in 12 years. Our defense budget today is $40 billion.

 

[datalibdaz]

Hi,
Your post is not correct.That $22 Billion needs to be calculated over 30 to 40 years. Rafale's immediate purchase price is around $90 Million. For 126 jets that's $11.5 Billion. Add base infrastructure, training and maintenance, that's another $2 Billion over the next 10 years. Even if we assume all of this costs $15 Billion, we will still make the payment based on delivery of the aircraft, so it will still take 10 years. That's $1.5 Billion every year for the next 10 years. Then the remaining money, around $10-20 Billion will be spent over the remaining 20-30 years.

So are you saying IAFcan't afford paying $1.5 Billion every year?

The capital budget for the IAF may be $6 Billion today, but in 10 years time this would have quadrupled to $24 Billion. So,IAF still can't afford to pay $1.5 Billion every year over the next 10 years? I have assumed we will take 10 years from the date of signing the contract for all 126 jets to be delivered.

The IAF's capital budget was a Billion in 2000, today it has increased by 5 to 6 times. What makes you think it will remain stagnant over the next 15 years?

The MKI program as of 2012 was $12 Billion. In 2000 the defense budget was $10 Billion. The Rafale program will have costed us $15 Billion in 12 years. Our defense budget today is $40 billion.

Dear, First please mention where in my post i said that IAF cannot afford Rafales. Deals need money, and that is why your planners are going ahead with this deal because they find it financially plausible. Yes there are many source stating different numbers, but if the time line is 10 years than then definetly there is no problem for IAF.

 

[black-hawk_101]

I think PAF had a good chance of acquiring about 70+ Mirage-Vs from Egypt which they didn't. I don't know why as for that money Egypt can acquire Super Mushak and K-8s in a license production which they are already doing for K-8s.

More over, can work with Russians on MiG-35s program that will benefit them more or even with PAC-CAC on JF-17s. So what would be the cost of Mirage-Vs in 2000s?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Pakistan Airforce is eating channa & Bajra in 2014

Shaheen needs new planes not channa and bajra if you know what I mean

 

[Slayer786]

Because we baniyas are very envious of you people. We can only dream of being like Pakistan but always fail.

Good. Now to the other indians. See it is not that difficult to admit it. Take a deep breadth and let it out.

 

[Super Falcon]

May be they have stack in coruuption so they push mmrca deal to clear any hackles and they get their share

It is india who started the arsenal crazyness in region want to become world power never ever gonna happen

 

[ClassBunker]

perhaps Pakistan might have become a benchmark for them --- On the General side - I believe Parliamentary Panel is overlooking the fact that they have more advance Jets then numbers mean nothing I would really like to know the credentials of members of this panel - and on what grounds they have made this assessment

perhaps Pakistan might have become a benchmark for them --- On the General side - I believe Parliamentary Panel is overlooking the fact that they have more advance Jets then numbers mean nothing I would really like to know the credentials of members of this panel - and on what grounds they have made this assessment

 

[black-hawk_101]

I hope to see more F-16s Block 15 in PAF..........

 

[Zabaniyah]

What about Bangladesh?? Bhutan?? Nepal?? Burma??
What about China?? They are far more capable than us!!

Yes, we are.
Bangladesh ignores India’s Concerns will buy Chinese corvettes and submarines

 

[Abingdonboy]

In training, morale, and caliber? Definitely yes, PAF has shown its edge again and again and again over iaf.

An utter myth propagated by many Pakistani members, please provide the examples where the PAF has shown an edge "again and again".

The IAF's training is world class and on par if not superior to the PAF's.

PAF has edge over indian air force on some tactical levels..such as AWACS coverage,

In what way? The AWACS operated by the IAF are FAR more powerful than those of the PAF. Although PAF has more AWACS, this is true.

To be honest I'm

I am amazed!

1. I don't know whether this was IAF deliberately playing with statistics to present what is essentially a bald faced lie to the Parliamentary Panel.

2. Or whether Dassault and Reliance influenced the Parliamentary Panel members directly(bypassing IAF) to do statistical jugglery to force MoD to speed up negotiations.

3. Whether it was collusion between IAF and Dassault and Reliance on this.

But it is impressive the lengths they are going to. Most impressive.

To be honest it is a good thing that the numbers are being misrepresented/misreported in such a way as to downplay the IAF's capabilities, it's better this than the other way around.

Let's cut the parliamentary body a little slack and say they are ignorant and not being directly influenced by Dassualt/IAF (The arms lobby in any nation is always massively influential) and failing to take into account capabilities and looking purely at a numbers game.

This is still good for the IAF, at a time when most Western nations' politicians are looking at their Air Forces and actually applying quite an intelligent formula of factoring in increased capabilities of the newer generation of a/c (they are saying to their AFs they can do the same with less airframes), the Indian politicians are still in a backwards mindset of looking at numbers alone. This the IAF is going to get the best of both worlds, quality (they aren't looking for 126+ MiG-21s but top-end Rafales, the IAF has acquired a very expensive taste) AND quantity.

Most AFs around the world would love to be in the IAF's shoes- with such ignorant/easily misled politicians such as those found in India and two hostile nations (one that can be described as a constant threat and the other as a long term threat) on their borders the IAF/Indian military can pretty much ask for blank cheques from the GoI.

Going on the figures in the news for MMRCA, 126 Rafaels for $20 Billion( Some Sources Put it at 28-30 Billion $)spread over a time line of 5 years (starting from 2015), that is $4 Billion yearly that IAF needs for Rafales...Looking at the Budget of IAF at $5 Billion Yearly, they certainly need another $4 Billion every year to complete the deal...it might be difficult but not impossible to secure such funds.

The deal is worth $15-16 Billion spread out over 10 years with 10% paid up front. So that is $1.5-1.6 Billion USD a year and with the IAF's budget growing year on year this isn't an issue.

Dear, First please mention where in my post i said that IAF cannot afford Rafales. Deals need money, and that is why your planners are going ahead with this deal because they find it financially plausible. Yes there are many source stating different numbers, but if the time line is 10 years than then definetly there is no problem for IAF.

The $15-16 BN figure was stated officially this month by the IAF and Dassualt. Any reports you see quoting higher than this are entirely wrong.

 

[MilSpec]

No, the report is fallacious and essentially only to rabble rouse over funds.

Doesn't change the fact that we are at record low strength. India uses Russian shipyards for construction of naval ships justifying that Indian shipyards are overbooked... by the same theory, HAL is overstreched too, there should not be any harm in sourcing another 100MKI's from Irkut, when HAL's production rate is not catching up to everchanging requirements for IAF. India desperately needs to get the numbers it needs, the only options at hand is LCA Mk1, and SU30MKI, unless our lazy diplomats can pull a jordan, with the M2K's

 

[OTTOMAN]

there should not be any harm in sourcing another 100MKI's from Irkut

your airforce is not happy with SU-30, they want Rafael.

 

[Jayanta]

First prototype will fly in 2018.Total 4 prototypes will be created(SP standards) before 2019 and FOC will be obtained by 2022.This is the plan for LCAMK2..

So if everything goes right India will have indigenous 4.5 Gen fighter....and 5th Gen FGFA from Russia by 2022. But inducting them in significant numbers will take another 3-4 years....what until then?? How and what will be the stopgap between 2015-2025 the MMRCA deal is going nowhere and the squadron numbers are dwindling.