Pak may never try another Kargil, but it could get worse

[Rafi]

Sure - we want you to test the hypothesis. Do it.

It's done.

 

[ajtr]

China and Pakistan's strategic interests are in convergence - and regarding the Nukes - let me categorically state that the nuclear weapons are our's to use, and even China does not get a say, if you really want, we can try out your hypothesis, but would not be good for your future generations.

Pak's nukes are not India's problem anymore let the west and chinese problem now so let them break their head .But btw i do stand bt my CT of pakistan being just like turkey with usa nukes on its soil.and i'm convinced of it.you can call it intution.


PS:Btw God has provided woman when he created her from Adam with high intutive power to sense danger and look into the future.

 

[Rafi]

Its not India's problem anymore let the west and chinese problem now so let them break their head .But btw i do stand bt my CT of pakistan being just like turkey with usa nukes on its soil.

You have the right to your opinion, if what you said was true, then you have nothing to worry about.

 

[Dark Warrior]

General Pal is saying india lost the war, strategically, militarily. And his opinion counts, he was the supreme commander of all indian land forces in the conflict.

But Nawaz Sharif's opinion count's even more as he was the PRIME MINISTER of pakistan.

 

[Rafi]

But Nawaz Sharif's opinion count's even more as he was the PRIME MINISTER of Pakistan.

NS - is bitter, his opinion is tainted - General Pal's opinion is much more important he led his troops in the conflict. Politicians in South Asia know jack about military matters.

 

[ajtr]

You have the right to your opinion, if what you said was true, then you have nothing to worry about.

I've cearly mentioned as intution not as opinion.And challenging the intution of a woman is like challenging thAllah(swt) Himself.

Secondly i've not said anything about fear from Pak nukes as i'm sure they are secure but i do ve fear from indian ones.one bad movie in both ways with families across borders it sure gonna be double edge fear for me.

 

[SQ8]

Oscar,
PA did act on ETIM group and other situations like lal masjid operation or on the assassination of Chineses Engineers involved in projects with pakistan on Chinese govt.prodding.As you classify good and bad terrorists in above posts I wonder how you separate them:i guess XinJiang group(ETIM)as bad terrorists + one those attack chinese citizens and interests on pakistani soil as bad terrorists) but who are the good ones.Secondly there are so many loosely operating tanzeems overlapping each others' interest and drawing cadre from both bad and good ones how its possible to keep tab on all of them.

From geopolitics and realpolitic let me jump on to philosophical plane.
Iqbal long back had drawn the map of the Pan-Islamic World,to whom Pakistan owns him as its national poet and visionary of its existence — categorically included Kashgar when he says in one of his famous couplets:

“Aik ho Muslim haram ki pasbani ke liye,
Neel ke sahil say le ke taba Khak-e-Kashgar.”

(Become one for guarding of Muslim sacredness.
From the banks of the Nile up to the soil of Kashgar.)

Now my question is that PA and Pak establishment may have its own foreign /security policy wrt to Xinjiang which is opposite to Iqbal's vision but then majority of pak awam or majority in PA agrees with this opposition to the PA views wrt kashgar. If yes.hoDoesnt it like saying that we are dumping Iqbal's ideology and its just not practical to follow it.If No then how much stiff resistance you expect from the people.
This is where my Part of CT on nukes kicks in wrt to chinese of pakistani nuke is same as that of western fear.

As for India best way is to just keep converting its fear of pakistani nukes as the fear of everyone.India did tested this wrt to terror targeted at india and the game theory does works in favour of india as one saw in last decade.

With regards to the first highlighted part..
This overlapping is what is currently causing headaches for the establishment, since these groups are behaving like Hydras.. and did not come with the on/off button or even a reliable leach as their creators thought they would.


Moreover,neither the establishment or the People of Pakistan in general take any ideology at face value.. they take what suits them. If it suits them to concentrate on "killing infidels".. they'll take it.. or if the Treaty of Hudaybiya suits them.. they'll take it.
Not understanding their historical interpretation and significance.. since that is irrelevant.. only the abstracts use for personal gain is important.

Oscar If I remove some of those star *** words then it's fine, with data and are video are ok ?

As long as it is relevant to the topic and does not derail.. yes.

 

[Dark Warrior]

NS - is bitter, his opinion is tainted - General Pal's opinion is much more important he led his troops in the conflict. Politicians in South Asia know jack about military matters.

The Hindu : Front Page : Military tribunal slams Kargil war leadership
Pal was proved false by a military tribunal.

As for Nawaz as he was a prime minister had access to all classified briefings(incl.level 5)
But a lt.gen like pal has access to only level 3 briefings.

Then there is recent Kashmir history. Musharaf was the architect of the Kargil crisis where thousands of Pakistani soldiers and Kashmiri militants lost their lives. Musharaf, like Lady Macbeth, finds it difficult to wash the stains of their blood from his hands. When he flies into Agra with his seventy-man delegation, the ghosts of three thousand Pakistani soldiers, buried secretly, fly with him. He will see their faces as they starved to death in the icy peaks of Kargil when supply lines stopped.

Pakistan Peoples Party
Even PPP agreed that thousand's of soldier's died.

 

[illusion8]

The Hindu : Front Page : Military tribunal slams Kargil war leadership
Pal was proved false by a military tribunal.

As for Nawaz as he was a prime minister had access to all classified briefings(incl.level 5)
But a lt.gen like pal has access to only level 3 briefings.

I dont particularly see anything wrong with the interview - he clearly says the army had a number of tactical victories, he says the army was able to clear India's territories of intruders - its just the diplomatic front which is worrying him - where we clearly know we won emphatically.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I do get that since Zia's days PA ideology has completely changed and with the Zia's generation ideologically motivated generals start replacing the officers corp thats where the real fear of west and china kicks in wrt to nukes and terror.Till India was only the punching bag it was all fine with everyone.but as one can se today that india's problem of 1990s has become the world problem today.As world got more threatened india is getting safe as compared to 1980-90s.Same is happening with nukes.Ie the solution to india's fear is that to divert that fear west and everyone else.

And as for chinese what they are that the one who control the strategic weapon in pakistan are getting more ideologically motivated themselves.

Upto kargil war all fits in well and answers the chinese help to india.

But 1971 is still a mystery that even so much prodding by nixon admin chinese never attacked from north.

If it were nukes and terrorists that made china help india in kargil what was the chinese fear in 1971 that stopped it helping pakistan to reduce pressure from north.

As i see last 30-40 yrs of chinese behaviour i do think that 2 front war is just IA's boogeyman just to put GOI in pressure to get more funds for defence.....correct me if i'm wrong here.

First of all: WRT the underlined part, not really! Indian Army's preparations and expenditure in the North has been negligible to the extent that it did not enhance incremetally the IA's capability there. It was just sufficient to maintain status quo.

In recent years (post the Deng period) there is a resurgent PLA in China that is jockeying for power (including political power). So IA's moves there are clearly reactive in nature. It is neither intended to nor will it achieve primacy over the PLA in any way. But OTOH, there will not be any major conflict there. That bit about "2-front war" is only about ability not about intention, so you could factor that in to your thought-process, IMO.

Now coming back to the earlier part of your post. That is the real danger (i.e. Religious Fundamentalism and Extremism) that has reared it head up in a huge way. To bedevil the world at large and more importantly to pose a basic threat to Pakistan itself. Its amusing to read about "good terrorists and bad terrorists". That is as intelligent a statement as "good cobras and bad cobras". Have you met anybody who has kept a pet cobra?!
And those wise souls who bandy these expressions about are doomed to find out the hard way- whether there is any difference!
About India getting safer, because the west is facing bigger threats; any such belief is fallacious. These threats are emanating from a lumpen lot, one might say some of the dregs of humanity whose primary fuel is blind unthinking religious(sic) ideas. They will constantly keep changing the targets in their cross-hairs. Of course it was a desirable change only to the extent that the portfolio of targets has grown so huge, from Infidel Indians to Zionist Americans to Crusader Remnant Europeans to Reactionary Saudi Monarchists to Upstart Myanmar. Of course Jews are one of the biggest ingredients in this Alphabet Soup of sworn targets. Too many targets to achieve any worthwhile success, but also think that the initiative is being effectively wrested from the hands of the Deep State. Now nobody will be clear which (or how many) of these trouble-makers are State Actors or Nonstate Actors or Actors beyond anybody's pale. That is the worrisome part, even for the people who run the Deep State.

One last point, in 1971 or 1990: China did not help India. China simply did not step into $hit. China assisted Pakistan only to the extent that it did not disturb the balance between Yin and Yang (too much)!

 

[Rafi]

General Pal makes some very good remarks, and I find him credible as the commander of indian forces, much respect for him.

 

[Dark Warrior]

Nawaz Sharif makes some very good remarks, and I find him credible as the prime minister of pakistan,much respect for him.

 

[Rafi]

General Pal is very honest,

 

[illusion8]

General Pal makes some very good remarks, and I find him credible as the commander of indian forces, much respect for him.

I think he had some issues with the top brass other than that I too agree with him, India won a number of tactical victories and successfully sent back all intruders. We know Pakistan lost diplomatically and as per Gen.Pal we won tactically and militarily as well - so all round victory was ours.

 

[Dark Warrior]

Nawaz Sharif is very honest and so is the PPP
Pakistan Peoples Party