PAK-FA : photos and videos

[Kompromat]

^ Can you tell me what is your source about F-22's actuall capabilities ??

As per my Information the F-22's Info available on the Internet is not entirely true.

 

[Kompromat]

No...Considerably less expensive. But then...You get what you paid for and...Losing a fight is much more expensive...

No way gambit , Russians can deliver Ultra high technology , compareable to the Raptor on almost half of the price.

 

[gambit]

I heard somewhere that PAK-FA's RCS is roughly equivalent to the F-18. Do you have any comments on that?

Too early to tell. When the F-117 was under development, the first thing Lockheed did was to verify the radar reflectivity of the faceting techniques, THEN came the absorber installation. It was no different for the F-22, but since the F-22 and F-35 uses far less absorbers -- leading edges -- verifying the additional RCS reduction with absorbers did not take much additional time. But for the sake of speculation, if the current body shaping put the PAK-FA's RCS into the F-18 Super Hornet's class, then once absorbers are installed, we can expect a reduction. How much? Who knows, but keep in mind that the F-22's current RCS figure is more dependent upon body shaping than from absorbers.

The most certain verification technique is a full scale production model radar anechoic chamber test...

Edwards Air Force Base - Media Search

Benefield Anechoic Facility - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Benefield Anechoic Facility (BAF) supports installed systems testing for avionics test programs requiring a large, shielded chamber with radio frequency (RF) absorption capability that simulates free space. This facility is located at the southwest side of the Edwards Air Force Base main base. It is currently the world's largest anechoic chamber.

Some aircraft tested at the BAF include:

* F-22 Raptor
* C-130 Hercules
* NC-130H
* F-16 Fighting Falcon
* B-1 Lancer
* X-43A
* MH-47 Chinook
* V-22 Osprey

If you want to know what an 'anechoic' chamber feels like, find a very high-end audio facility, or your local university may have a small audio anechoic room to test speakers and microphones. It is a very eerie feeling in such a room. Everything you say are considerably less loud and if your companion turn away from you, normal conversation noise level will not apply. You will not hear him. In your current environment, the noise level is a composite of reflections off the walls and other structures, like your desk, chair and even another person. In an audio anechoic chamber, baffles drastically reduces those reflections, resulting in a quietness possible above 2000 meters altitude.

At Benefield, the walls are lined with cones of absorbers specific to EM freqs. Do we know what an SU-27 and its cousins look like to our radars? You can safely bet your annual salary. We have a few Sukhoi and MIG products in our possession. If the PAK-FA is sold to any US allies, have no doubt we will know what it will look like on our radars, ground and air.

 

[KEETARP]

^ Can you tell me what is your source about F-22's actuall capabilities ??

As per my Information the F-22's Info available on the Internet is not entirely true.

Source will always be second hand(Defence Journos) and Manufacturer' words .

How do you come to conclusion that info on Net is not true???

Anyways
For Tactical data links , here is the source
F-22 superjets could act as flying Wi-Fi hotspots ? The Register
Here is company's site - L-3 Communications
I would go by Manufacturer's word.

For AN/ALR-94 Sensors i trust AWST - courtsey Bill Sweetman , you might wanaa check it .
Same figures correlate with Carlo Kopp - Aus.net

 

[KEETARP]

RCS calculation is a difficult part -
No such certifying company exists . Only Swede's manage to certify it for Fighters and Missiles
I am uploading one such certificate for RCS of Gripen - RCS of clean gripen 0.1m2


And some Stealth shape Knowledge would tell us why F22 was built as LO design.
Now out of various shapes the circular and Trapezoid shape were found to reflect Radar waves in all direction rather than is streamlined source of Emitter ,
that's why F22 has Trapezoid shape and Trapezoid intakes

Look at the shape of Intakes and body ( leave wingspan aside)


YF23 had similar shapings-
Intakes -

Infact Boeing Engineers went for Rear Trapezoid shape as well -

 

[Kinetic]

^^^^^^^ Most part is correct but ,
Some of the things in F22 are cutting Edge which will be difficult for Pak-Fa to match .

Mate I am not saying that PAK FA will be better in every aspect like Russians claimed. Thats why I didn't mentioned about EW or avionics in details..... nor these details are available for both aircrafts.

ALR-94: Isn't it a RWR? 250 nmi means almost 463 km and its a passive sensor!!! is there any official data or link on this range? isn't the number too big for a passive sensor? long range passive sensors need to be cued by active sensors but here passive sensor cues active one. Also PAK FA is a stealth fighter, there is no way a passive sensor can detect it at long ranges. If ALR-94 can do so much work why they needed APG-79? EA? Also passive sensors are better for stealth. I guess, as we don't know its work, PAK FA's under wing L-band AESA also doing something similar. But 463 km!! Not possible.

I doubt that (citation needed) ????

I think in terms of cockpit environment as far as we see on both fighters and the concept of e-pilot what they say "significantly reduces the load on the pilot and allows you to concentrate on the implementation of tactical tasks" and they also included new advanced decision support system along with multi-sensor data fusion. Also note these words....

Russia's T-50 Shows New Face and Human Intelligence - Pravda.Ru

Nikolai Makarov, Russian armed forces chief of staff, said that Sukhoi’s T-50 would have several advantages over its US rival – F-22 Raptor.

“First and foremost, it goes about high, nearly human intelligence,” Makarov said.

In addition, T-50 will be a lot cheaper than the US analogue, although the price has not been exposed yet, Makarov said.

Sukhoi's T-50 Ready To Fight with USA's F-22 Raptor - Pravda.Ru

As suggested before, Т-50 resembles the American F-22 in appearance - aerodynamics is a stubborn thing. There are no miracles, and optimal shapes of promising machines always resemble each other – same nose dome, same tail unit. Under the fuselage you can clearly see missile-bay doors. The biggest difference between the American Raptor and T-50 is a more flattened shape of the latter.

“PAK FA goes far beyond just the new looks,” told Igor Korotchenko, a member of the Public Council of the Ministry of Defense to Izvestia. “It was designed with a number of innovative solutions related to new concealment technologies, new construction materials, artificial intelligence and element base.”

The All-Russian Research Institute for Aircraft Materials reported that T-50 is the first jet built with polymer carbon fiber reinforced plastic. This material is twice as light as aluminum and four to five times lighter than steel. New materials account for 70 percent of the jet’s surface. It is four times lighter than jets assembled with regular materials.

A new phased-array radar facility was created for this jet. Experts with Tikhomirov Scientific Research Institute of Instrument Design stated that the new radar represents over a thousand of miniature transmittance modules combined in a single field. The radar “sees” everything that is going on both in the air and on the ground at a distance of several hundred kilometers. It can track multiple targets aiming the jet’s weapons at all them simultaneously. The developers say it can shoot at all targets at the same time, releasing missiles in a fan-like fashion.

Additionally, the new jet’s onboard equipment allows for real-time data exchange both with ground control systems and other pilots in a flight group. This 5th generation jet is equipped with principally new complex of avionics integrating the electronic pilot function. This means that the jet analyzes the situation and suggests a range of actions for the pilot to choose from. It will significantly decrease the pilot’s workload allowing more attention to be paid to tactical missions.

Test-pilot, Sergey Bogdan, said: “The aircraft performed excellently at all flight-test points scheduled for today. It is easy and comfortable to pilot.”

“Sukhoi” representatives said that after the test flight, Т-50 will be disassembled and transported to Zhukovsky in the Moscow region to complete testing. The first production samples of the 5th generation jet are expected in 2015. The beginning of the testing shows that “Sukhoi” enterprise have once again met all its obligations. For now Russian military aviation will use the most advanced modification of the legendary Su-27, fighter jet Su-35. The jet’s structure and onboard equipment include some of the elements created for T-50.

The Army is to Receive T-50 by 2015

Vladimir Putin praised those who were involved in the design and testing of the 5th generation jet.

“The flight is a big step forward,” he said. “A lot remains to be done in terms of engines and armament."

According to Vice Prime Minister Sergey Ivanov, there is a lot more to be done with respect to the jet. This includes the engine, weapon system, and preparation of the testing grounds.

-------------------------------

Putting IRST on F22 is not a big deal - considering F14 had it. But Reason behind it will be strategy and operational doctrine of F22
a) You need OLS ( FLIR/IRST ) if you are up for close range fight with cuing IR missile with it , May be USAF built F22 with confidence that it wont allow any Jet to even come close to it.

If F-22 don't want to allow any fighter come close to it must be fourth generation fighters. As F-22 is stealth fighter so is PAK FA, as F-22 has long range sensors so has PAK FA. OLS is integral part of PAK FA while F-22 have to integrate it externally, its a huge disadvantage.

For 5th generation fighters IRST will be much more needed than radars. Some say in future due to reduction of RCS (more than IR signatures), IRST will detect a fighter first than the radar. OLS-50M onboard PAK FA is very advanced and incorporates new technologies.

That is past , Final Prototype will fly with Flat Nozzle so movement will be in H shape or 2D , so only aircraft to field 360 TVC will be only Mig35 or Su35

I heard the news about it and its the only one. But I have doubt about it. Because we have seen videos of engines development from NPO Saturn where it shows a normal 3D engine like those onboard Mig-35 or Su-35.

 

[gambit]

ALR-94: Isn't it a RWR? 250 nmi means almost 463 km and its a passive sensor!!! is there any official data or link on this range? isn't the number too big for a passive sensor? long range passive sensors need to be cued by active sensors but here passive sensor cues active one. Also PAK FA is a stealth fighter, there is no way a passive sensor can detect it at long ranges. If ALR-94 can do so much work why they needed APG-79? EA? Also passive sensors are better for stealth. I guess, as we don't know its work, PAK FA's under wing L-band AESA also doing something similar. But 463 km!! Not possible.

Very possible. You can see much further than you can speak. You need to understand the basic difference on what is a passive versus active sensor. Try this...

http://www.defence.pk/forums/715392-post62.html

Then come back with any question.

For 5th generation fighters IRST will be much more needed than radars. Some say in future due to reduction of RCS (more than IR signatures), IRST will detect a fighter first than the radar. OLS-50M onboard PAK FA is very advanced and incorporates new technologies.

The problem with infrared is that because it is a passive sensor, there is next to nothing target information such as range or aspect angle. The best type of target information infrared give is direction.

 

[KEETARP]

Mate I am not saying that PAK FA will be better in every aspect like Russians claimed. Thats why I didn't mentioned about EW or avionics in details..... nor these details are available for both aircrafts.

Agreed

ALR-94: Isn't it a RWR?

True

250 nmi means almost 463 km and its a passive sensor!!! is there any official data or link on this range? isn't the number too big for a passive sensor? long range passive sensors need to be cued by active sensors but here passive sensor cues active one.

Dont worry , Passive sensors is way to go , you wont find any Active radar on next manned machine form US

Also PAK FA is a stealth fighter, there is no way a passive sensor can detect it at long ranges. If ALR-94 can do so much work why they needed APG-79

Bcoz for ALR to work , you need atleast some warning signal first from you enemy's tracking radar .
If your target Pak-Fa has shut its radar or more importantly what happened in SERBIA , SAM radar is turned off . You dont want F117 incident thats why APG77 is also important ,
Weapon control is still by APG77

Imp part of ALR94 is its Digital Threat Library , once it gets a Pulse repetition frequency and Pulse train sequence from a Enemy radar it can analyze and store that for Jammer's to send a out of Phase same PRF sequence to Jam you , or store it for future battle or even more can pass it on to next aircraft by datalinks to Fight you better.
PRF and Train Sequence is specific for a Radar .

? EA?

I dont know if they are used , but Yes why not Possible . That's the Advantage of AESA antennae , Rt

Also passive sensors are better for stealth. I guess, as we don't know its work, PAK FA's under wing L-band AESA also doing something similar. But 463 km!! Not possible.

L band on wing tip of Pak-Fa , i will go with paralay's Analysis of its use.
We know its AWACS and IFF + DATALINKS that work in L mode , so its higly probable that L band will be used for that or for Jamming the Enemy's IFF/or Datalinks.
Even our Su30MKI BARS operate in Dual mode so nothing new abt that L band .
If you see L band has low Freq meaning higher wavelength for the Resolution to project image on display , in turn req bigger size antennae .
Thats fine for AWACS bcoz Antennae size is bigger but not for Fighter esp Wings.
Only advantage of Lband is longer range and operation in all weather but that comes at a compromise of sharpness.

I think in terms of cockpit environment as far as we see on both fighters and the concept of e-pilot what they say "significantly reduces the load on the pilot and allows you to concentrate on the implementation of tactical tasks" and they also included new advanced decision support system along with multi-sensor data fusion. Also note these words....

Agreed , about AI and we cant compare it at this stage

If F-22 don't want to allow any fighter come close to it must be fourth generation fighters. As F-22 is stealth fighter so is PAK FA, as F-22 has long range sensors so has PAK FA. OLS is integral part of PAK FA while F-22 have to integrate it externally, its a huge disadvantage.

No its not
OLS range of whatever Russian Jet is falls between 35-60 KMS . Long range OLS50 can reach up to what level ??????
If F16 nose can get APG80 along with IRST , no need to hang it on F22.

For 5th generation fighters IRST will be much more needed than radars. Some say in future due to reduction of RCS (more than IR signatures), IRST will detect a fighter first than the radar. OLS-50M onboard PAK FA is very advanced and incorporates new technologies.

For Bolded Part- LIKE what ??????

I heard the news about it and its the only one. But I have doubt about it. Because we have seen videos of engines development from NPO Saturn where it shows a normal 3D engine like those onboard Mig-35 or Su-35.

Its confirmed by three Russian news agency , 8 years time for development and Salyut+Saturn will make it together in JV

 

[rastor]

but keep in mind that the F-22's current RCS figure is more dependent upon body shaping than from absorbers.

If this F-18 report were true, then I guess PAK-FA cannot be considered a stealth fighter, considering that the quoted figure did not include weapons. I always knew the Russians would never come out with a product that would match the F-22. Still I think a glorified MKI with a lesser RCS will have its place in this part of the world. But as someone put it before, you get what you pay for.

 

[KEETARP]

Its too early to Tell , bcoz final prototype is still not out.
What IR reduction measures will Go in .
What Canopy return reduction will go in
how many rivets are there?????
heck , we even dont know how much Graphite composites and RAM layer is used.

Remember , maximum radar return is from
Plume of gases from Nozzles+Engine compressor+ Canopy
Now you will ask Why canopy - just google HaveGlass2 Reduction on F16.

So this RCS of PAK-FA = F18 is just biased and totally crap .
I dont know any Engineer that can calculate RCS by photos

 

[xMustiiej70]

Cut the crap. Turkey is not considered as neither military or economic power nowhere near Pakistan, forget India.

Turkey's economy is too small to be good.
Turkey's new systems are all copy of other's systems like MILGEM, T-129, tank etc.
Turkey is heavily dependent on US for military survival.
Turkey lacks the diplomatic power.
India is listed in Global Firepower as the fourth most powerful nation, while Turkey is at number ten.
If there is a fight between Turkey and India, Turkey will not survive a week. Even they don't have enough military power to survive with any of the nation more than one month.


Above all Turkey is not comparable. Compare Turkey with Malaysia, Taiwan, Greece, Argentina, Ukraine, South Africa etc, don't go beyond that.

oooh man.. this is why the other side of me wants a war with india..
Just keep underestimating Turkey..
Just go for it.
Oh and btw good luck with your "sticks" weapon.
And your "5"th gen fighter.. i mean WORLDS BEST FIGHTER ALL TIMES.
Pak-****.

 

[xMustiiej70]

There is no comparison between F-22 and F-35. They have complete different technologies. F-22 costs many times more than F-35 as they are both developed by same company and country. PAK FA is in the class of F-22, it was developed keeping F-22 in mind. Thats why they also call it Raptorski. Many time Russian designers compared it better that F-22 in almost all aspect.

PAK FA vs F-22 in general...

1) PAK FA has four AESA radars of two different bands both X and L band. F-22 has single X band radar. F-22's main radar has more T/R modules than PAK FA's main radar.

2) Both aircrafts look structurally stealthy.

3) PAK FA has 3D TVC while F-22 has 2D.

4) PAK FA has many more control surfaces than F-22. PAK has all moving vertical tail, LERX which F-22 doesn't.

5) PAK FA has better man machine interference than F-22.

6) PAK FA has longer range sensors like OLS than F-22.

7) Max range, supercruise, altitude, top speed are almost same.

Why do you call what pakfa has better..
and f35 has way better stealth.
Russians are known for their low quality and low tech planes but best manouvrebility.
which destroys the stealth.
and the amount of radars dont matter.
its about the quality..
like the only radar of f35 is as better as all 4 of them.
and the stealthy of f35 makes it even harder to detect.
f35 uses the best avoinivs.
and best technologies.
the cockpit are way way more modern and easy to mantain then russians planes.
I see pak-fa has typhoon with stealth for air defence.

 

[KS]

Why do you call what pakfa has better..
and f35 has way better stealth.
Russians are known for their low quality and low tech planes but best manouvrebility.
which destroys the stealth.
and the amount of radars dont matter.
its about the quality..
like the only radar of f35 is as better as all 4 of them.
and the stealthy of f35 makes it even harder to detect.
f35 uses the best avoinivs.
and best technologies.
the cockpit are way way more modern and easy to mantain then russians planes.
I see pak-fa has typhoon with stealth for air defence.

oooh man.. this is why the other side of me wants a war with india..
Just keep underestimating Turkey..
Just go for it.
Oh and btw good luck with your "sticks" weapon.
And your "5"th gen fighter.. i mean WORLDS BEST FIGHTER ALL TIMES.
Pak-****.

hehehe buddy Xmustii...y do u think we need all the weapons to fight u.....just 5 Agni missiles with thermo-nuclear warheads would do the job of wiping ur country off the middle east quite smoothly in 5 mins.

 

[xMustiiej70]

hehehe buddy Xmustii...y do u think we need all the weapons to fight u.....just 5 Agni missiles with thermo-nuclear warheads would do the job of wiping ur country off the middle east quite smoothly in 5 mins.

I dare India to do that.
India won´t able to do it.
And with 0.000000000000000001% succes Turkey will destroy India.
India dont have anything.
All old limited options and low technologies from Russia.

 

[letsbefriends]

I dare India to do that.
India won´t able to do it.
And with 0.000000000000000001% succes Turkey will destroy India.
India dont have anything.
All old limited options and low technologies from Russia.

what does turkey has???apart from being an american lapdog,by begging american aid n technology u cant do nothing...dat is ur status in the world..what a joke u r to humanity...