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PAF's possible answer to MRCA

They had a budget in the late 1980s for the EF Typhoon of the time, the F-16. 70 of them in addition to the 40 already delivered. Remember what happened?
The problem with pakistan back then was that we blindly trusted America like we do China today.

So you're trying to argue that the PAF should NOT buy the most cost-effective aeroplane that meets all their requirements? :lol:
:lol: even F-16s meet PAF requirements.

You can read the brochure, is that it? All you have is what the names of the F-16's systems are?
excuse me? and you must be the PAF's professional civilian hired military equipment analysts?
One problem: your definition of "new technology" is the Flanker-H.
Sure they will. Because the InAF gets everything right on time, don't they? :lol:
They certainly got Su-30MKI on time and certainly will get the american FA-18s on time as well. by the time FC-20 arrives SU-30MKI will be not be same as today.
What good are the Eurofighter Typhoons you are advocating against InAF's 5th generation fighters that they WILL CERTAINLY HAVE by 2020? By your logic the PAF should be ordering F-22 Raptors right now.
Do you have tendency of assuming what others may say and take words out of context?
If you say so then add B-2 on top of your list.
 
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Growler
Its going to be very hard to explain our fellow pakistani members that the pak-china military cooperation is not as lovely as we all pretend to think. 2 army officers that i have talked to have serious reservation about chinese equipments. Even they have their own conditions but not to a extreme like american and i am not making that up but saying exactly their words. I was just like you front of them trying to convince them that China provides us the best of the best equipments that we want but again and again got the same answer (NO). the FC-20 is merely a further upgrade of J-10A which could be done in span of years rather then a decade for some reason. just one of my observation, the IRST on FC-20 is most likely to be one from J-11 so not the latest equipment considering we are talking about 2015.
The only solution to make FC-20 ture 4.5 generation MRCA is to intergate western avionics, radar, armaments etc comparable to their latest 4.5 generation MRCA.

I think we better adopt wait and see policy on FC-20 as there is no official specs of this fighter is available.
 
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Sir Growler the thing is that we can go for better option only if available!
the U214 was there and PN did have a go at it didnt they??
now for F16, yes they are golden egg but we have experienced how bitter they taste, havent we done so in the past??
yes FC20 is a cost effective option but this do not point in direction of FC20 being an non-capable platform, , , i hope you remeber that FC were given priority over rafale after evaluation!
the F22p is a good deal for present time, the milgem that we ( particularly you) rate so highly is not available as yet,, we may go for them after the F22p as we all know that PN have intention to go for four more frigates after F22p and them if milgem is operational it will be a far better choice!!
sir with all the respect at the moment we must not point our fingures towards mediocre chines equipment in favour of high tech US ones that might never come. this is not my wild guess but a lesson that histiry have taught us!

i wish you can understand what i am trying to say,

regards!
 
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From what i have read out and seen on the web, i think china is on the way to develop superb fighters and bombers, but these are expected to become operational between 2015-20, so as a stopgap PAF should procure atleast 3-4 squarderns of the state of the art fighters from the west, no matter how expensive they are, i'd suggest 2-3 squadrens of Typhoons and 2 squadrens of JAS 39 Grippen or rafael to put some sort of deterence to IAF...
 
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Sir Growler the thing is that we can go for better option only if available!
the U214 was there and PN did have a go at it didnt they??
Rafael was their on the table but we did not go for it because pak could not afford it and the Air force had multiple multi billion dollars programs taking place.
Thank god we did not opt for a Chinese sub which was on the table if ever available.
now for F16, yes they are golden egg but we have experienced how bitter they taste, havent we done so in the past??
That was thing of the past. its better if we move on and stop bring in the same old issue in every other possible european weapon acquisitions.
yes FC20 is a cost effective option but this do not point in direction of FC20 being an non-capable platform, , ,
We could have gotten FC-20 a lot quicker, its merely a upgraded platform and only with european avionics radar armament will this AC earn the right to be called 4.5 generation fighter.
i hope you remeber that FC were given priority over rafale after evaluation!
that means squat in a technical term. we did not proceed with FC-20 because they were technically so superior but (cost effective). IMO PAF intention was to do a indian style MKI make up on FC-20. Get a good platform and interrogate western technologies. I hope FC-20 does receives uptodate systems which just does not only meets PAF requirement but also technically par to IAF 4.5 generation fleet which is our number one priority.
the F22p is a good deal for present time, the milgem that we ( particularly you) rate so highly is not available as yet,, we may go for them after the F22p as we all know that PN have intention to go for four more frigates after F22p and them if milgem is operational it will be a far better choice!!
All i can say that this has to be one of the worst military acquisition ever. Its like pakistan inducting 150 JF-17 basic version without european input and also without a joint venture.
F-22P deal would have been great if we actually participated in the development like in the case of al-khalid or JF-17.
Milgem on the other hand... it will be a disgrace for a combatant ship like milgem to be compared with F-22P :no:

sir with all the respect at the moment we must not point our fingures towards mediocre chines equipment in favour of high tech US ones that might never come. this is not my wild guess but a lesson that histiry have taught us!
No i am not generalizing chinese capability. all i am trying to say that upgradtion of J-10A to B could be done much earlier and in case of frigates we could have got a better chinese option like type-054. Where is the help? all i see is a 10 year payment credit.

regards.
 
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Senate panel agrees to open door to possible F-22 exports

The Senate Appropriations Committee voted unanimously Thursday to approve an fiscal 2010 Defense spending bill that would allow the Defense Department to develop an export version of the radar-evading F-22 Raptor fighter jet.While the committee bill, if enacted, would not repeal a decade-old law prohibiting foreign sales of the stealthy fighter, it would mark a significant step forward in opening up the Lockheed Martin Corp. jet to U.S. allies just as the plane's domestic production lines are winding down."It's a good next step," a Senate aide said of the F-22 provision in the $636.3 billion spending bill.

For years, lawmakers in both chambers have thwarted any effort to sell the F-22 overseas, arguing that exporting the advanced technologies in the fighter jet would pose a significant security risk. But proponents of exporting the plane argue that selling an export model of the F-22, stripped of secret U.S. technologies, would eliminate that risk.House lawmakers approved a floor amendment to the fiscal 2007 Defense appropriations bill that would lift the ban. But export opponents in the House and Senate eliminated that provision during conference negotiations on the bill.

The Senate's language in the fiscal 2010 bill will likely meet stiff resistance from House appropriators -- especially Appropriations Committee Chairman David Obey, D-Wis., author of the 1998 ban on F-22 exports -- who continue to be concerned about the security implications of selling the F-22 abroad.While the Senate bill maintains the export ban, it says the Defense Department "may conduct or participate in studies, research, design and other activities to define and develop an export version of the F-22A." The committee report accompanying the bill encourages the Air Force to use F-22 research and development funds to begin work on an export version of the fighter.The House bill, which was approved in July, continues the ban and does not open the door to developing an exportable version of the fighter.

But the political landscape could be shifting a bit as domestic production of the F-22 comes to an end -- a development the program's supporters in Congress fear will lead to thousands of aerospace jobs lost in dozens of states.Both the House and Senate already have approved versions of the fiscal 2010 defense authorization bill with language demanding the Pentagon report to Congress on the costs of developing an exportable version of the F-22 and any potential strategic implications.Japan is considered the most likely customer for the F-22, particularly as North Korea continues its ballistic missile testing. South Korea, Australia and Israel have also have expressed interest in buying the plane despite a price tag that could top $150 million a jet.

The Senate is expected to take up the $636.3 billion Defense appropriations bill later this month.Senate Appropriations Committee ranking member Thad Cochran, R-Miss., said Thursday that his goal is to wrap up conference negotiations with the House and send the bill to the president's desk by Oct. 1,

We have to go for them if American are willing?????:undecided::undecided:
 
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Senate panel agrees to open door to possible F-22 exports

The Senate Appropriations Committee voted unanimously Thursday to approve an fiscal 2010 Defense spending bill that would allow the Defense Department to develop an export version of the radar-evading F-22 Raptor fighter jet.While the committee bill, if enacted, would not repeal a decade-old law prohibiting foreign sales of the stealthy fighter, it would mark a significant step forward in opening up the Lockheed Martin Corp. jet to U.S. allies just as the plane's domestic production lines are winding down."It's a good next step," a Senate aide said of the F-22 provision in the $636.3 billion spending bill.

For years, lawmakers in both chambers have thwarted any effort to sell the F-22 overseas, arguing that exporting the advanced technologies in the fighter jet would pose a significant security risk. But proponents of exporting the plane argue that selling an export model of the F-22, stripped of secret U.S. technologies, would eliminate that risk.House lawmakers approved a floor amendment to the fiscal 2007 Defense appropriations bill that would lift the ban. But export opponents in the House and Senate eliminated that provision during conference negotiations on the bill.

The Senate's language in the fiscal 2010 bill will likely meet stiff resistance from House appropriators -- especially Appropriations Committee Chairman David Obey, D-Wis., author of the 1998 ban on F-22 exports -- who continue to be concerned about the security implications of selling the F-22 abroad.While the Senate bill maintains the export ban, it says the Defense Department "may conduct or participate in studies, research, design and other activities to define and develop an export version of the F-22A." The committee report accompanying the bill encourages the Air Force to use F-22 research and development funds to begin work on an export version of the fighter.The House bill, which was approved in July, continues the ban and does not open the door to developing an exportable version of the fighter.

But the political landscape could be shifting a bit as domestic production of the F-22 comes to an end -- a development the program's supporters in Congress fear will lead to thousands of aerospace jobs lost in dozens of states.Both the House and Senate already have approved versions of the fiscal 2010 defense authorization bill with language demanding the Pentagon report to Congress on the costs of developing an exportable version of the F-22 and any potential strategic implications.Japan is considered the most likely customer for the F-22, particularly as North Korea continues its ballistic missile testing. South Korea, Australia and Israel have also have expressed interest in buying the plane despite a price tag that could top $150 million a jet.

The Senate is expected to take up the $636.3 billion Defense appropriations bill later this month.Senate Appropriations Committee ranking member Thad Cochran, R-Miss., said Thursday that his goal is to wrap up conference negotiations with the House and send the bill to the president's desk by Oct. 1,

We have to go for them if American are willing?????:undecided::undecided:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
well it is more then "if america is willing", more importantly if M. Zardari is willing to empty his pocket,, i bet if he donates his money to PAF only then we can get the F22zz
:rofl:
:rofl:

wake up dude!!

regards!
 
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Pakistans best answer to MRCA is a big pile of money and a strong economy

PEACE :whistle:
 
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whose getting the skeleton out of grave??????
 
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The latest block 60 of F16, would be the best bet for PAF. They could also get some f35 in future. Chinese planes are cheap but low on quality. They just cannot be compared. Even JF-17 is useless unless western equipment is installed on it, which is PAF is upgrading them further.
 
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The latest block 60 of F16, would be the best bet for PAF. They could also get some f35 in future. Chinese planes are cheap but low on quality. They just cannot be compared. Even JF-17 is useless unless western equipment is installed on it, which is PAF is upgrading them further.



awwww if chinese planes are cheap then why US is so worried about new chinese developments :blink:
 
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ISLAMABAD: Pakistan has deferred the purchase of state of the art fighter J-10 planes from China till test flights.

Defence sources told Online Monday Pakistan Air Force (PAF) was taking interest in acquisition of state of the art J-10 fighter planes from China. Air Chief Marshall, Rao Qamar Suleman however during his briefing to the members of senate committee on defence told no formal decision had been taken so far to purchase these planes. �We are reviewing the matter. Until these planes are inducted in Chinese air fleet and they meet their targets and objectives during test flights then PAF will decide to purchase them that upto what extent these planes can prove productive for PAF �, he remarked.

Sources told PAF was facing lack of funds problem in the wake of tough economic situation. Therefore, PAF was completing its ongoing projects and these would be completed in time.However a clear decision with reference to J-10 planes would be made after their induction in Chinese air fleet and their performance in test flights.
 
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I think PAF should keep working on the following projs, especially JF-17 Block II.

70 F-16 B-52 ( 4th gene)
80 Mirage ROSE (eq to 4th gene)
55 F-7PG (eq to 4th gene)
50 JF-B1 ( 4th gene)
150 JF-B2 ( 4th gene)
70 Mirage 2K9 (If possible From UAE/France) ( 4th gene)
Total 475 -70 (if PAF dont get from UAE) = 407

Considering India (on realistic basis...) would only be having following jets after couple of years (Indians dont Trol)


200 MKI
100 Mig 29
50 Mirage 2K9
Total 350
Other Indian jets are unfit for war.
 
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I think PAF should keep working on the following projs, especially JF-17 Block II.

70 F-16 B-52 ( 4th gene)
80 Mirage ROSE (eq to 4th gene)
55 F-7PG (eq to 4th gene)
50 JF-B1 ( 4th gene)
150 JF-B2 ( 4th gene)
70 Mirage 2K9 (If possible From UAE/France) ( 4th gene)
Total 475 -70 (if PAF dont get from UAE) = 407

Considering India (on realistic basis...) would only be having following jets after couple of years (Indians dont Trol)


200 MKI
100 Mig 29
50 Mirage 2K9
Total 350
Other Indian jets are unfit for war.

Allow me to correct it as how much will IAF have in future.

300 MKI
126-200 MRCA
80 LCA Tejas
250 FGFA+50 T-50
130 MIG 29(India ordered additional 30 Mig 29's)
atleast 100 MCA

There you go total 1110 and many more of LCA MK2 comes out(pakistanis dont troll)
 
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I think PAF should keep working on the following projs, especially JF-17 Block II.

70 F-16 B-52 ( 4th gene)
80 Mirage ROSE (eq to 4th gene)
55 F-7PG (eq to 4th gene)
50 JF-B1 ( 4th gene)
150 JF-B2 ( 4th gene)
70 Mirage 2K9 (If possible From UAE/France) ( 4th gene)
Total 475 -70 (if PAF dont get from UAE) = 407

Considering India (on realistic basis...) would only be having following jets after couple of years (Indians dont Trol)


200 MKI
100 Mig 29
50 Mirage 2K9
Total 350
Other Indian jets are unfit for war.



sorry sir but Data about India is not correct.

First of all plz tell what do you mean by "after few years" wrt to Indian data.

agreed with Mig 21 not fit for war, but Mig 27 and Jaguar are fit for war, ................Airforce is going to upgrade jaguar soon.

Bison upgrade of Mig 21 can fight to some extend.
Secondly,.................production of Tejas is expected to start soon.
 
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