PAF's Defensive Doctrine---Out of Ignorance---Out of Incompetence Or What?

[N/A]

Many also fail to understand that neither Pakistan is China nor her needs are as large as those of China. As of now PAF has no deep strike fighter/bomber let alone a dedicated aircraft that will assist Navy in case of a conflict. JH-7B fits the bill. Under no circumstances do I see JF-17, being a light multirole fighter, to carry out the job of a dedicated JH-7B. I will prefer JH-7B equipped with long range ASMs over a frigate anytime. Yes, we must invest in sub-surface fleet, hence priority at this point of time goes to stronger and dedicated naval air arm and sub-surface fleet.

The JF17 is a fantastic aircraft but not a perfect aircraft, there are certain roles which it fails to meet such as a naval strike aircraft. The JH7b with ASEA radar upgraded avionics, engines with 15% more thrust, in flight refueling, upgraded mission computer, and reduced RCS make for a potent aircraft no doubt. However a J-11 would be more appropriate for the naval strike role. A naval strike plane needs to have exceptional load carrying ability. The Jh7B has A max weapons load of 5000 kg (11,023 lbs). On the other hand, the J-11 has 10 hardpoint.(jh7-9) and greater load capability. Neither way, the induction of any naval strike plane would enhance the capability of Pakistan no doubt, but it all comes down to the money. NO point in a making wishlist without the Benjamins

 

[syedali73]

The JF17 is a fantastic aircraft but not a perfect aircraft, there are certain roles which it fails to meet such as a naval strike aircraft. The JH7b with ASEA radar upgraded avionics, engines with 15% more thrust, in flight refueling, upgraded mission computer, and reduced RCS make for a potent aircraft no doubt. However a J-11 would be more appropriate for the naval strike role. A naval strike plane needs to have exceptional load carrying ability. The Jh7B has A max weapons load of 5000 kg (11,023 lbs). On the other hand, the J-11 has 10 hardpoint.(jh7-9) and greater load capability. Neither way, the induction of any naval strike plane would enhance the capability of Pakistan no doubt, but it all comes down to the money. NO point in a making wishlist without the Benjamins

Point is, is J-11 available to us? It seems 'no' unless our relations with Russia improve further and Bharat's deteriorate further, which does not appear to be the case with Bharat's new lollypop of 'considering the purchase of MiG-35' to Russia. Whether we like it or not, we are pretty much stuck with Chinese stuff at-least for the time being. Europe (France to be specific) does not want to sell us simply because of cost plus Bharati lollypops; we my friend, are reaping what we sowed. Why you think Mastan saheb becomes so bitters with Mirage 2000 fiasco? It is not about just the aircraft, it is about letting Bharat penetrate into French market.

 

[MastanKhan]

jh7b has 10000 kg capacity

 

[N/A]

Point is, is J-11 available to us? It seems 'no' unless our relations with Russia improve further and Bharat's deteriorate further, which does not appear to be the case with Bharat's new lollypop of 'considering the purchase of MiG-35' to Russia. Whether we like it or not, we are pretty much stuck with Chinese stuff at-least for the time being.

J-16 may not be a bad option in the near future. A perfect blend of a naval strike and a multirole fighter. The aircraft also contains an ASEA radar, exceptional range and payload. However the jet is very early in operational use and the financing maybe be issue, although we could get soft loans from china. If Pakistan contained solid funds and a better relationship with Russia without Indian influence, an aircraft like the su-34 may always be an option. However that route seems very unlikely

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

Actually what you have said makes a lot of sense. Frigates have become "kind of" sitting ducks, even with dedicated fleet air defense ships. An anti ship missile launched 250kms away could cripple / sink a frigate or a destroyer. On the other hand more subs + a decent amount of of dedicated naval fighters could very well change the equation.

@Rashid Mahmood ......?

Navy is surface fleet, which means surface vessels.
Aviation and Sub Surface forces are supporting (offensive) assets supplementing the surface fleet.

 

[MastanKhan]

@Indus Falcon

Here is a link to a very professional forum----for JH7B---plz start from 15 pages back------. Enjoy the read.

JH-7/JH-7A/JH-7B Thread | China Defence Forum

 

[syedali73]

Actually what you have said makes a lot of sense. Frigates have become "kind of" sitting ducks, even with dedicated fleet air defense ships. An anti ship missile launched 250kms away could cripple / sink a frigate or a destroyer. On the other hand more subs + a decent amount of of dedicated naval fighters could very well change the equation.

@Rashid Mahmood ......?

May 26-27 1941, destruction of magnificent Bismark by Sowrdfish biplanes marked the end of the heydays of Naval surface fleet. I am not saying that surface ships are not needed but their vulnerability towards attacks by the submarines and aircrafts have rendered them as more of a liability. Of-course the 'Admirality' will always like to keep surface ships despite all their shortcomings.

 

[SQ8]

@Oscar

Your post is full of it-----you and your SOB STORIES---. I am pretty sure that you have heard this term in the U S if not at home.

As they say---the proof is in the pudding---. 14 years now after 9 / 11 and still no primary air superiority fighter----still no deep strike aircraft----excuses all the way.

It isnt MK. Your posts are rants and nothing more, you're old and trying to stay relevant with these pointless repetitive ramblings. And Ive had enough of it.

I can't disagree with anything you have said. Factually it's 100% correct.

The only point I would disagree on is that you didn't need to ridicule him. Your points would have been still valid.

The latter is now required. Because coming up with new threads using baseless crap is becoming all to common now.

the more i think about it the more i feel JF-17 program was a mistake, I think Pakistan should have jumped on the J-10 program in place, The Unit cost of the J-10 would have not been greater then the JF-17, the upgrades the PAF are planning on doing with JF-17 will just raise the price of the aircraft and it will be still less capable IMO.
if there was no Thunder project PAF would be better equipped today with more better fighter jets, JF-17 wan't the answer to PAFs problems.
I'd rather have an airforce with a COMBO of 70+ J-10Bs and 70+ F-16 BLK-52s vs 300+ Indian aircraft, we have a hell of a better chance defending the skies, then we do with some baby shit aircraft.
Has anyone seen a picture of the JF-17 next to the FA/18, the JF-17 looks puny compared to FA/18 its embarrassing, and people think this will give us some boost.

Has anyone told you that making dual IDs to flood the forum with posts isnt the way Thrilainmanila. I banned you from this section, and now this forum.

 

[MastanKhan]

It isnt MK. Your posts are rants and nothing more, you're old and trying to stay relevant with these pointless repetitive ramblings. And Ive had enough of it.


The latter is now required. Because coming up with new threads using baseless crap is becoming all to common now.



Has anyone told you that making dual IDs to flood the forum with posts isnt the way Thrilainmanila. I banned you from this section, and now this forum.

I can respond to you in kind if you don't use your managerial priviledge.

 

[SQ8]

I can respond to you in kind if you don't use your managerial priviledge.

What in kind?
You havent posted one base of facts.

Here it is. You made a whole new thread before on the JF-17.. I put it out exactly why the whole argument is crap.
You think you're right? PROVE IT beyond three paragraph ramblings. I can agree to disagree any day of the week, but when you are going to create thread after thread with the same rehashed twenty lines then jesus man, yeah.. Ill take the holds off.

And please dont give me the sanctimonious managerial crap, you know very well for whom I reserve it.

Now, I still posted writing on actual history on why the F-16 still works. GO ahead, do a write up(jibes welcome), prove it wrong. Quote history, quote books, quote whatever "professional" forum you wish.. BUT put more than just ramblings in there.

 

[N/A]

Viewing the Mk vs Oscar conversation:

 

[SQ8]

Viewing the Mk vs Oscar conversation:
View attachment 252133

It sort of blew over after having a few of these moments.

 

[Darth Vader]

Bhai, unlike J-11 that is a Russian Su-27 -derivative, JH7B which is a Chinese design and optimized for naval operations maybe a better option. I guess that is why Matan saheb is emphasizing this much on JH7B.

After The Su news and j 11 every one is Jumping on guns that everything is ready we have money in pocket and just need to go to grocery store
What Most People Dont care is Air warfare is not some competition where you bring the faster car and will win its
series of calculated decisions to counter your enemy before they could Harm You the Simple Fact Which No one brings in their post is When Most PDF thumps their Chest That MKI has bigger rcs So it means it gone Straight Drop down from Sky
doesnt the same thing apply to Su 35 or j11 no much how modified they are , they belong to the same group , For me it will be buying these two jets will be the most idiotic decisions , Why For Su Indian Air Force has years of training , which they use to their full potential , on the other side we have f16 , thunder small agile , capable platforms , its not like that we need to travel the other side of world World has changed , for long range their are other Systems available to them , e.g Babur
For now PAF is doing a good job and being a low budget Force and keeping on combo and hi and low to counter balance Foes

 

[MastanKhan]

 

[Darth Vader]

As For Jh 7 Havnt Seen That bird with Operational AESA , for that someone must had seen changes in the Nose of Craft
Its a old bird , Not even agile and you put in right in the middle of Battlefield