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PAF will not go 5th Generation anytime soon(2030)

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yes thats the difference bw IAF and PAF ....you can not ignore that ur present jf17 need improvement in every aspect but u still buy them and on the other hand IAF dont want o include LCA into their fleet wherever it will not become as per 4.5 gen standard ...

Whats the point.....every plane needs improvement....its better for it and its good that JF has lots of room for improvement...so by your words we can make it more are more potent......:bounce:
 
yes thats the difference bw IAF and PAF ....you can not ignore that ur present jf17 need improvement in every aspect but u still buy them and on the other hand IAF dont want o include LCA into their fleet wherever it will not become as per 4.5 gen standard ...

If you don't know what we are talking about and from what angle, plzz then don't interfere.

We and everyone else knows good about what IAF is and what it can do.
And as for JF-17, it is capable enough to take on every current fighter in your airforce.

So don't troll and understand in what context we are having this discussion.

And to you guys JF-17 may not be a 4th gen aircraft, which is good. Keep thinking that way.
 
the radar tested on recent test LCA was nt AESA.
so your first 20 LCA will nt be a 4.5th generation aircraft.
when Su mki,f-35 are nt in 4.5th generation aircraft becasue of AESa radar then how comes your LCA 4.5th generaion

wher as jf-17 is reality and LCA a dream

only radar not make plane 4.5 gen ....
apart from it.... 20 planes already ordered in 2005 before development thts why order not increased to original 200 that was planed
nd radar used in 20 lca is far batter than jf17 (elta el/m 2032)...... go and check
and lca mk2 will surely come with Elta EL/M-2052
and if que about mkis so after 2012 they all will have aesa ..
its already planed and development work for them is already going on
 
If you don't know what we are talking about and from what angel, plzz then don't interfere.

We and everyone else knows good about what IAF is and what it can do.
And as for JF-17, it is capable enough to take on every current fighter in your airforce.

So don't troll and understand in what context we are having this discussion.

And to you guys JF-17 may not be a 4th gen aircraft, which is good. Keep thinking that way.



You seem to be switched on big boy , take it easy:lol:
 
only radar not make plane 4.5 gen ....
apart from it.... 20 planes already ordered in 2005 before development thts why order not increased to original 200 that was planed
nd radar used in 20 lca is far batter than jf17 (elta el/m 2032)...... go and check
and lca mk2 will surely come with Elta EL/M-2052
and if que about mkis so after 2012 they all will have aesa ..
its already planed and development work for them is already going on

bt in wiki almost aircraft with AESA are 4.5th generation,,and in 4.5th generation aircraft ther is clearly said aircraft with AESA and better avionics is 4.5th generation
so if we equipt Jf-17 with Italian AESA and chineese avionics then it is 4.5th generation and your current LCa is 4th generation like jf-17.
and you will get first 20 aircraft by 2014-15 nt now

i can post the link of TOi
 
Its not what I say. Its what I have seen, heard and read.

To give you an example, lets take JF-17. Whatever I have read from across the border, they label JF-17 as a can of tin, an all metal airframe and Chinese cheap avionics and stuff like that, while glorifying their LCA. Its not just one source, multiple sources.

A few months back was reading something on that Indian defence analyst run livefist blog, something written about JF-17, he or whoever wrote that piece was all praises for LCA, while JF-17 was crap, without even thinking that the JF-17 has become operational, while the LCA even after decades of development is still in testing and other stuff and hardly 20 ordered, JF-17 getting attention from export potential clients, while LCA well no need to say further.

So this is the mentality which we and I are talking about. All on this side of the border crap, while on your side of the border, awesome.

i am all in agreement with your views because thats what the reality is people try and say that they got a better thing thats human nature similar comparison i will try and highlight for you in this forum 2 years back when the IAF started accquring the SU30MKI in numbers and all the indian audience started jumping up and down the majority here took the reg flag tapes and american analysis from the 90,s and what not to highlight how bad the SU30 is and that its a piece of giant **** and what not

even today you start a thread you will find su30 being dragged and how it has Big RCS and how its a sitting duck and how bad it is . i have no problem as members are entitled to their own views but whats the difference then when you try and point that some of the indian media publishes JF-17 in poor light ....its a symptom 2 way round so i dont think anybody should have complaints its the nature of humans ......

ask any new member from pakistan what e thinks about SU30MKI he will answer how big a crap it is still today also do the same with a indian member about JF-17 and they will point out how bad it is so its the same thing all around
as far a defence pros are concerned i have seen pakistani publications about SU30mki or any other and how bad they are so there should not be any complaints thats what i am trying to say
 
2030..... it will be the 6th gen age.why pakistan have to wait that long?two phototype of J-xx are already being made.now CAC is making other three .SAC is starting the project of light version .

so you are accepting that chinese are making cheap copies of planes
good for then god bless J-10A/B/C/D/D/E/F/ J-15 , JXX JYY too...thanks
god bless russia ,too,now china is start making cheap upgrade su-33 while russia have to use india's $ to restart the line of mig-29.don't hate china,it's not our fault that thousand of soviet scientists flocked to china and made great contribution to our defence
 
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2030..... it will be the 6th gen age.why pakistan have to wait that long?two phototype of J-xx are already being made.now CAC is making other three .SAC is starting the project of light version .


god bless russia ,too,now china is start making cheap upgrade su-33 while russia have to use india's $ to open the line of mig-29

man that reply was only for that said person who had a special word for russian technology because of a sour syndrome as far as russia is concerned its true we need funding for the next level of project the funding but we are not short of develoment skills or research funding will come no doubt with the world military spending increasing more and more recent transformation in this section to channelize a single platform for every category solves major domestic funding issue many sick industries are back on their kneels if not foot ...another example the antanov purchase from ukraine another sign where the defence industry is headed in here .... and as far as mig29 its the naval model and its line is open till 2013 as the navu will replace all SU33 with the 29k ...
so you can copy su33 as we are moving to the next level always their will be catch up play
 
Some suggest that Sino 5th gen Fighter would be Operational by the year 2017-2018.
Aimarrual do you have any comments on that ?
 
whats the point of such a worthless thread?

lets analyse out side the first post if PAF will really have a 5th gen platform before 2030 then what are the possibilities....

current ones.

F-22--- XXXX
F-35 the ones who funded gets it in 2015 and the oders are high so when can pag realistically get hands on it....
PAKFA-- XXXX
FGFA--- not yet developmed
SAAB --- not yet developed
JXX---- Not yet developed even if they develop it by 2018 and sart production by 2020 china will want numbers in their own force first that too hundreds so when can PAF look 2025...


anybody with any other ideas at what time it is realistically possible to have a 5th gen functional sqdrm in PAF?
 
You guys Might wana read this.


News: Stealth Edition YFC-1E Xiaolong fighters will equip the Chinese Air Force

A few days ago, according to the China Aviation Industry Corporation Chengdu Aircraft Research Institute authoritative source: the Chengdu Aircraft Industrial Group, the global market according to sales prospects Xiaolong own Xiaolong fighters and our military should be differentiated principle. 在原枭龙战机的基础上全新自主成功研制出,隐身型YFC-1E多功能单发双垂尾“枭龙”歼击机。 Xiaolong fighter in the original basis of the successful production of a new independent, stealth-based multi-YFC-1E single vertical tail, "Fierce Dragon" fighter.

根据国际、国内市场需求自主研制开发的先进隐身轻型多用途YFC-1E “枭龙”歼击机。 According to international and domestic market demand, independent research and development of advanced stealth light utility YFC-1E "Fierce Dragon" fighter. 能够适应21世纪作战环境特点,完全能够满足中国人民解放军第四代新型航空武器装备高低搭配的发展需求。 Able to adapt to the 21st century operational environment characteristics, capable of meeting the fourth generation of PLA weapons and equipment level with the new aviation development needs.

YFC-1E Xiaolong fighter key data:

翼展9.18米 A wingspan of 9.18 m

机长15.16米 Captain 15.16 m

机高4.65米 Height 4.65 m

主轮距2.71米 Main Tread 2.71 m

前主轮距5.12米 Tread 5.12 meters before the main

正常起飞重量10000千克 Normal takeoff weight of 10,000 kg

最大起飞重量13800千克 Maximum takeoff weight of 13,800 kg

外挂能力3800千克 Plug-in capacity 3800 kg

机内燃油2500升 2500 liters of fuel machine

最大最大马赫数M1.72 The largest maximum Mach M1.72

最大实用升限17500米 Practical ceiling 17,500 meters maximum

起飞滑跑距离435米 Take off roll from the 435 m

着陆滑跑距离680米 680 meters from the landing roll

航程2500千米 Range of 2500 km

限制过载8G Limited overload 8G

China Aviation Industry Corporation I self-developed, with full independent intellectual property rights of YFC-1E "Xiaolong" stealth all-state aircraft 05 aircraft in its prototype based on the 01.03.04, conducted aerodynamic, structural, and system optimization of the whole The new design, the use of advanced "shell" inlet and dual vertical tail stabilizers innovative technology and application of a number of integrated manufacturing technology, with the most advanced country with high integrated avionics and weapons systems, configure the world's leading The cockpit has a good user interface integrated display device, stealth-type "Fierce Dragon" fighter's overall performance and significantly enhance the comprehensive combat capability.

相对于此前已成功首飞的“枭龙”01架.03架.04架飞机属平台状态的“升级隐身版”,着重于对飞机机体的研制,主要用于支持试飞、保障飞行安全而言,05架“枭龙”战机达到可实用交付的全状态,完全可以称之为“超级隐身完整版”。 The relative success of this first flight before the "Fierce Dragon" 01 .03 .04 aircraft platform is state of the aircraft "upgrade Stealth Edition", focuses on the development of the aircraft body, mainly to support the flight test to ensure flight safety, , 05 "Xiaolong" fighters to be practical delivery of the full state, can call it "super-stealth full edition."




同时,美国空军日前公布了一批所谓中国未来隐身作战战斗机的设计的假想图。 Meanwhile, the U.S. Air Force recently announced a number of so-called China's future stealth fighter designed to fight imaginary map. 他们以基础于F22设计理念来设想中国未来隐身战斗机。 They design based on the F22 stealth fighter to envisage the future of China. 日前,中国境内知名的军事杂志也刊登了一副来自“军事迷”个人设计想象图。 Recently, well-known in China's military published a magazine from the "military fans" personal design Imaginative. 而且图中表示的战斗机项目可以说面面俱到煞有一副“已经开始”的劲头。 But the figure can be said that the fighter project has an all-embracing evil "has already begun," the momentum.

目前中国主力战斗机依旧是国际称之为“第三代”战斗机。 At present, China remains the main international fighter known as the "third generation" fighter. 而俄罗斯习惯于自己成第四代。 Russia used to own as the fourth generation. 在我们目前的歼11战斗机中,似乎看到了一些或多或少的“未来隐身战斗机”的影子。 In our current F-11 fighter jets, it seems to have seen some more or less "future stealth fighters," the shadow. 歼11进行了局部隐身设计。 F-11 conducted a partial stealth. 可以使得雷达截面小于5㎡。 Radar cross section can be made less than 5 square meters. 诚然这对比现在F22的不足1的概率是无法想像。 It is true that this comparison is the probability of less than 1 F22 can not imagine. 但是我们要看到,歼11必定是第三代战斗机的改进型。 However, we want to see third-generation F-11 fighter must be improved. 而并非全新设计真实意义上的“第四代”战斗机。 The new design is not the real meaning of the "fourth generation" fighter. 也就是说它基本可以达到欧洲设计的“3.5”代战斗机的能力。 That is, it can basically achieve the European designed "3.5" generation fighter capabilities. 而今天俄罗斯设计的SU35战斗机也基本如此 Today the Russian designed SU35 fighter are basically the same

在此次改进中中国加入了局部隐身设计。 Improvement in the China's accession to the local stealth. 这首先是说明中国有能力制造具有隐身能力的战斗机。 First, note that China is capable of manufacturing capacity with the stealth fighter. 这也就是意味着建造第四代隐身战斗机首要的“隐身”建造的可能。 This is the fourth-generation stealth fighter aircraft meant that the construction of the first "stealth" construction possible. 其次中国歼11战斗机改进了原有的SU27战斗机座舱仪表系统。 Second, the Chinese J-11 fighter planes to improve the original SU27 fighter cockpit instrument system. 做到了所谓“显示器”化能力。 Achieve the so-called "display" capabilities. 这一点今天的SU35也是才开始应用的。 This is only the beginning of today's SU35 applications. 而中国在研制“弹仓”打击中早期已经具有了一定的经验。 China in the development of the "magazine" to combat the early already have some experience. 只不过在设计“转轮式”发射能力上还具有一些不足而已。 However, in designing "wheel style" launch ability it also has some shortcomings. 而已目前F22打击方式来看这也是第四代隐身战斗机的主要的特点。 Only way to combat the current view of F22 which is the fourth generation of stealth fighter main features. 不做到“武器隐身”是减少不了战斗机红外特征的。 Not to do "stealth weapon" is to reduce the infrared characteristics of fighter aircraft can not.

而中国目前面临的主要问题还是在于发动机上。 The main problem currently facing China lies engine. 在北京航空展览会上。 In the Beijing Air Show. 我们看到了俄罗斯研制的适量喷口的新型31发动机。 We see Russia developed a new type of nozzle suitable engine 31. 但是从喷口外观展示的结构来看,我们还是难以看到“减少红外排放特征”设计。 However, the structure from the vents show appearance, we still difficult to see, "to reduce infrared emissions characteristic" design. 而涡扇发动机在我国目前还是一个试验设计阶段。 The turbofan engine in China is still an experimental design stage. 我国目前的几种涡扇发动机无论是推力还是矢量技术都还不能达到建造隐身战斗机的要求。 China currently has several thrust turbofan engine, whether or vector techniques can not meet the requirements of the construction of stealth fighters. 但是在此次歼11改进计划中我们看到了一些关于进气口,尾部发动机红外特征消隐的设计。 However, the F-11 Improvement Program, we have seen some on the air intake, rear engine design of infrared features of blanking. 而这些都是建造隐身战斗机的前奏。 These are a prelude to the construction of stealth fighters.

因此歼11可以说作为中国未来隐身歼X战斗机的实验性发展平台。 Therefore, it can be said as the Chinese J-11 J-X stealth fighter of the future experimental development platform. 个人认为更加适合中国设计改造的初衷。 Think more suitable for transformation of Chinese design in mind. 而关键问题是中国如何能够独立自主解决发动机问题。 The key question is how China can independently solve the engine problem. 这个问题已经关乎到了中国战斗机研制的重要问题。 This issue has a bearing on China's fighter development of the important issues. 而在此次巴基斯坦“枭龙”战斗机计划中。 Pakistan in the "Fierce Dragon" fighter program. 如果不是中国研制了可以替代RD发动机的自主涡扇发动机。 If not developed an alternative to China's own RD turbofan engine. 那么即便是克里莫夫公司在去俄罗斯的国防部或者杜马以及普京那里游说。 So even Klimov to Russia in the Duma, and Putin, where the Ministry of Defence or lobbying. 我看也很难达到我们现在要达到的目的。 I think it may be difficult to achieve what we want to achieve. 必定俄罗斯也不是傻瓜! Russia must not fool!

因此中国要真的打算研制第四代隐身战斗机。 Therefore, China should do to develop the fourth-generation stealth fighter. 那么我们必须自己独立走过涡扇发动机这一个关键问题。 Then we must walk their own independent turbofan engine that a key issue. 在目前现有的昆仑和太行基础上。 In the current existing on the basis of the Kunlun and the Taihang. 我们可以逐步达到这个目的。 We can gradually achieve this goal. 虽然这两者对比31发动机还有很多不足。 Although the contrast between the engine 31, there are still many deficiencies. 但是只要中国人愿意拿出自己的能力来自主研发。 But as long as Chinese people are willing to show their abilities from the main research and development. 那么发动机这个大问题,中国就可以独立解决。 Then the engine this big problem, China could solve.

也只有这样俄罗斯才会在这样的情况下,主动拿出自己的方案和中国合作。 The only way Russia will in such circumstances, to show its own programs and cooperation with China. 这叫做“势不可挡”吧。 This is called "unstoppable" as well. 而如果我们依旧打算在新的隐身战斗机计划上等待俄罗斯的“消隐红外”设计的新型发动机。 And if we still intend to plan a new stealth fighter waiting for Russia's "blanking infrared" Design of a new engine. 那么中国受制于人的局面还将会在某一个另外格局下产生。 So the kinds of situation in China also will be generated under a certain pattern of another. 这是必然的任何国家之间合作都会借助于此来挟制对方。 It is inevitable that any cooperation between countries to hijack this will aid each other. 已达到所谓“友好目的”实际上就是一种建立相互依托关系的办法。 Has reached the so-called "friendly purpose" is actually a kind of building mutual rely relations.

因此个人认为在设计第四代隐身战斗机中发动机是一个关键性问题。 I personally think that the fourth generation of stealth fighter in the design of the engine is a key issue. 而解决这个关键性问题。 The solution to this critical issue. 我们可以说“没有依靠”。 We can say "do not rely on." 那种拿来主义再不进行彻底修正。 Ism that do not thoroughly revised. 面对现在的国际航空技术。 To today's international aviation technology. 中国将会永远受制于人! China will always be controlled by others! ! !


http://translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&u=http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_4dacb4240100gpu9.html%3Ftj%3D1&ei=Ev7rS5XsKtGLkAWGivT_Bw&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CC4Q7gEwAw&prev=/search%3Fq%3DYFC-1E%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1R2ADFA_enAU378
 
lets analyse out side the first post if PAF will really have a 5th gen platform before 2030 then what are the possibilities....

current ones.

F-22--- XXXX
F-35 the ones who funded gets it in 2015 and the oders are high so when can pag realistically get hands on it....
PAKFA-- XXXX
FGFA--- not yet developmed
SAAB --- not yet developed
JXX---- Not yet developed even if they develop it by 2018 and sart production by 2020 china will want numbers in their own force first that too hundreds so when can PAF look 2025...


anybody with any other ideas at what time it is realistically possible to have a 5th gen functional sqdrm in PAF?

The formula you presented for Pakistan and JXX seems to be true for India and FGFA as well..:coffee:
 
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