PAF Vs IAF Command and Control Systems

[deckingraj]

I will not dignify such a post with a proper response. Your post proves you are a troll. Please have fun somewhere else. If you continue to troll in this thread I shall have no other option but to report you to the mods.

I will not call her a troll....I am not sure since when you are on PDF but she is one of those posters who cannot be termed as troll...If she is asking something better provide her your source, she might tell something worth....

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I started the thread I know the title. Before we can compare we need data that is what we are doing.

Hi Hawk,
You did start the thread on an interesting subject. And info that is available can be discussed. Having said that, the info about the range of the Vera system seems to be in the air for me.
i for one; personally, would greatly appreciate an explanation of that bit since it falls outside the scope of my knowledge- inspite of trying to find out.

BTW; a small suggestion, you will do alright using a smaller font.
Thanks for your attention.

 

[dbc]

Not sure whether it can provide 300km trans frontier coverage into India, but never the less a potent system and a great complement to our existing radar coverage which is exceptional. Heres some info:

VERA S/M Passive Surveillance System
The VERA S/M is a product of the ERA Inc. of Pardubice in the Czech Republic. The system, as an independent source of information on air situation, can meet tasks of a monitoring and a back-up system for radar systems of the Air Traffic Control Centre of the Czech Republic.

The prototype of the VERA system has been first installed at the elevation of about 1000 metres and from 1995 it has been successfully tested in round-the-clock and permanent operation by a group of experts from the Air Force Passive Systems Centre and from Air Defence Command of the Army of the Czech Republic. It has used the improved working method first introduced in its predecessors (e.g. TAMARA or TACAN surveillance systems).


The manufacturer offers the system also in the following modifications: VERA – P3D, VERA ASCS, VERA - AP, VERA - ADSB and VERA – HME and VERA – E, and S/M, used predominantly by the military.

The testing has proven that the system has an operation range of 400 to 500 kilometres in an angle higher than 120 degrees. The software presently used is capable of automatic and simultaneous tracking of up to 300 aircraft/targets at the real time.

The crew is a single operator, plus an officer.

The PSS VERA is a useful complement and a back-up of existing active radars of air traffic control centres, without ambition to replace them.

VERA S/M Passive Surveillance System | Ministry of Defence

Also check out this website too, very informative post by the member.

VERA - Czech system detecting stealth aircrafts [Archive] - Military Photos



Dude DOB is no troll, she is a very highly respected member on this board and her knowledge in matters of Military Aviation far exceeds our. Show some respect, instead of posting a reply like that you should have answered the question.

Thanks notorious_eagle, a system like VERA works on triangulation principle.Triangulation is a process by which the location of a transmitter can be determined by measuring either the radial distance, or the direction, of the received signal from two or three different points. So unless, PAF has VERA receivers on Indian soil or capability unknown to us the claim that Vera gives "the PAF more that 300+ Km transfontier coverage into India" is hard to believe.

 

[humza_313]

You love to see this vs threads right? anyway of it is informative, no probs.

yeah...! dude.. its been 60 years in this legendary sentence "pak vs ind" so i think we will continue it..! love comparing the 2 countries..!

 

[humza_313]

well after reading books of both pak and indian authors.. one thing is for sure.. pak always had air superiority over india..! even though the land forces were of quite a difference..!

 

[rockstarIN]

yeah...! dude.. its been 60 years in this legendary sentence "pak vs ind" so i think we will continue it..! love comparing the 2 countries..!

So far 'comparing' is fine. wars are ugly affairs

 

[India Rising]

well after reading books of both pak and indian authors.. one thing is for sure.. pak always had air superiority over india..! even though the land forces were of quite a difference..!

sorry, off topic but i have to do it man !!!

 

[rockstarIN]

well after reading books of both pak and indian authors.. one thing is for sure.. pak always had air superiority over india..! even though the land forces were of quite a difference..!

Its just opposite

and quite situational too

 

[silent hawk]

I post in a larger font because I can read it more easily. Anyhow if it seems wierd I will shift back.

The Vera as explained in many posts is a passive sensor. It not only gives the position of the aircraft but also uses an Elint (Electronic Intelligence) System to analyse any electromagnetic transmission of the target. Bases on these emissions it can identify the type of aircraft. It hence identifies the target through its electromagnetic signature.

This system was tested out in HighMark 2010. The side allowed to use Vera had a significant advantage. The entire raid package can be deciphered. Knowing the aircraft type is a huge tactical advantage.

If we send an aircraft to intercept an Indian Intruder it does not know whether the incomming aircraft is a F-16 or a F-7 PG. Whatever India sends we know.

So if a Mig 29 is comming in we know the AI cone and position our interceptor acordingly. We pitch our F-7PGs against IAF Bisons and commit our block 52 against SU-30.

Do you people really think I am a Captain?

 

[mehboobkz]

Do you people really think I am a Captain?

Only if you tell me where is the button for ejection seat located!

 

[rockstarIN]

I post in a larger font because I can read it more easily. Anyhow if it seems wierd I will shift back.

It looks more neat

If we send an aircraft to intercept an Indian Intruder it does not know whether the incomming aircraft is a F-16 or a F-7 PG. Whatever India sends we know.

Since you started a Vs thread, you should analyse the Indian systems too. just google about sword fish/green pine radars and its ranges+air borne early warning systems.

So if a Mig 29 is comming in we know the AI cone and position our interceptor acordingly. We pitch our F-7PGs against IAF Bisons and commit our block 52 against SU-30.

What will you do if we send our fighters where the specific ACs as above not available?, the attacker has the choice in that case.

 

[silent hawk]

Thanks notorious_eagle, a system like VERA works on triangulation principle.Triangulation is a process by which the location of a transmitter can be determined by measuring either the radial distance, or the direction, of the received signal from two or three different points. So unless, PAF has VERA receivers on Indian soil or capability unknown to us the claim that Vera gives "the PAF more that 300+ Km transfontier coverage into India" is hard to believe.

The only requirement for triangulation is that the recievers must be seperated by a predefined distance. As Rafi mentioned for Vera this distance is 15 to 40 Km which can be achieved inside Pakistan. The nominal ranges are reported to be as much as 450Km which means that even if the radar is safely deployed 100 Km inland it would still give more than 300+ Km transfontier coverage.

For those who missed it here is Rafi's post.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/82343-paf-vs-iaf-command-control-systems-6.html#post1303798

 

[maverick1977]

@Death by chocolate,

Let me care to explain how VERA can look into india, i am not going to speculate on how far inside it will look into india.

As posted, the triagular principle dictates to have a 3D picture all the recievers should recieve singal from one concerned object. if 2 passive antennas or VERA are recieving signals from aircraft, safely, we can say 2D picture of that object is available. However, if one passive antanne recieves it, it might be able to suffice that objects information to point its location. ( someone correct me with 1 passive reciever recieving information only).

we know that Veras are kept 40 kms apart at maximum, the minimum seperatoin between the 3 passive antennas can also be acheieved but it will compromise not only the accuracy of detectotion but also the range of the system.

If Pakistan experiments with 2 recievers placed in parallel to the indian border , lets say 10 miles away from indian border international border and the third one lets say deep inside about 40 miles from the border, then inorder for triangulation principle to hold, the reciever will be in the middle of all three devices. based on this, passive radars should be able to pick signals from indian airspace. how much range, i wont be able to answer it. it all depends on how sensitive the passive reciever is...

if what the previous posts have pointed out that 450km range surrounding it, then i can safely say that 400kms range inside india is possible..... this is what i can infer based on my signal processing/wireless knowledge i have due to my engineering background...

my only concern is the microwave link to the central site using Line of sight. Bad weather plays havoc with microwave links, lighting specially distorts the signal completely. but still i am sure the designer kept these limitations in mind and designed some LC filters to clean the noises introduced by the surroundings and also by changing weather...



Hope this helps in understanding how triangulation principle can be applied close to the border... if not, i will love to explain in more detail..

 

[rockstarIN]

Only if you tell me where is the button for ejection seat located!

He is 'captain' dude, not a flight Lieutenant., instead he will tell you where is the safety lock of AK-47

 

[silent hawk]

It looks more neat


Since you started a Vs thread, you should analyse the Indian systems too. just google about sword fish/green pine radars and its ranges+air borne early warning systems.



What will you do if we send our fighters where the specific ACs as above not available?, the attacker has the choice in that case.

PAF has always had the capability to carry out dispersed operations. Systems such as the Vera help us use our limited resources judiciously.

In case we do not have a compatible fighter we will pose a counter threat with whatever we have. The IAF will not get what it wants without a fight.