PAF Vs IAF Command and Control Systems

[silent hawk]

COMPARISION OF PAF AND IAF LOW LEVEL SENSORS​

This is the comparision based on data gathered so far

PAF Low level Sensors

MPDR 45,60 and 90

YLC-6

IAF Low level Sensors

Indra

GS 100

Both sides seem pretty well balanced in the low level sensor domain. The PAF MPDR systems came with the capability to operate in a netted mode

Friend because of the Earth's curvature what Air defense does is deploy Radars after every few miles and make each other overlap and the nest is spread out all over the country

The nest spread all over has the ability to share data and voice and a composite low level picture is formed in the MCC mentioned in the Vision Defence System details

Due to lack of data I am asuming that the Indian low level radras are operating in an atonomous rather than a netted mode.

This would give PAF an edge however as far as the sensors are concerned pretty even I would say

 

[dbc]

@Death by chocolate,

Let me care to explain how VERA can look into india, i am not going to speculate on how far inside it will look into india.

As posted, the triagular principle dictates to have a 3D picture all the recievers should recieve singal from one concerned object. if 2 passive antennas or VERA are recieving signals from aircraft, safely, we can say 2D picture of that object is available. However, if one passive antanne recieves it, it might be able to suffice that objects information to point its location. ( someone correct me with 1 passive reciever recieving information only).

we know that Veras are kept 40 kms apart at maximum, the minimum seperatoin between the 3 passive antennas can also be acheieved but it will compromise not only the accuracy of detectotion but also the range of the system.

If Pakistan experiments with 2 recievers placed in parallel to the indian border , lets say 10 miles away from indian border international border and the third one lets say deep inside about 40 miles from the border, then inorder for triangulation principle to hold, the reciever will be in the middle of all three devices. based on this, passive radars should be able to pick signals from indian airspace. how much range, i wont be able to answer it. it all depends on how sensitive the passive reciever is...

if what the previous posts have pointed out that 450km range surrounding it, then i can safely say that 400kms range inside india is possible..... this is what i can infer based on my signal processing/wireless knowledge i have due to my engineering background...

my only concern is the microwave link to the central site using Line of sight. Bad weather plays havoc with microwave links, lighting specially distorts the signal completely. but still i am sure the designer kept these limitations in mind and designed some LC filters to clean the noises introduced by the surroundings and also by changing weather...



Hope this helps in understanding how triangulation principle can be applied close to the border... if not, i will love to explain in more detail..

Good you have an engineering background so you will understand what I'm about to say. The VERA system works on a refinement of the triangulation technique called wide area multilateration using time-difference-of-arrival (TDOA) technique. Wide area multilateration systems like VERA can detect and track cooperating aircrafts 300 kms into India outside of the VERA sensor network. Cooperative aircraft continuously transmit a signal similar to a transponder beacon or RACON. The characteristics of the signal should be known to the receiver for the system to perform TDOA calculations and track the aircraft outside the sensor network.

Non-cooperative targets need to be inside the sensor network to be accurately tracked. Outside the sensor network a system like VERA can detect the presence of a transmitter(aircraft) but it cannot accurately determine range, velocity or heading.

 

[BS_Buster]

I appreciate your enthusiasm and patriotism. It was nice of you to admit that you are not a professional.

C4I systems are highly classified and getting reliable data on them is very difficult. However for true comparision accurate data is essential.

I would request people posting in this thread to be honest like BS_Buster and Antibody and let everyone know in case they are posting data about which they are not sure.

This is my first thread on this forum and I must say that I am very encouraged by the response.

thank for your appreciation. IAF never released any picture of their command and control systems except the IAACS.

Its like Pakistan's only radar is Vera! Guys do not you have any other long range phased array radars? Vera type system is very old now. Vera was developed in the 90s. But the source only tells us Pakistan evaluated not bought it.

OK what ever your say!

 

[BS_Buster]

COMPARISION OF PAF AND IAF LOW LEVEL SENSORS​

This is the comparision based on data gathered so far

PAF Low level Sensors

MPDR 45,60 and 90

YLC-6

IAF Low level Sensors

Indra

GS 100

Both sides seem pretty well balanced in the low level sensor domain. The PAF MPDR systems came with the capability to operate in a netted mode



The nest spread all over has the ability to share data and voice and a composite low level picture is formed in the MCC mentioned in the Vision Defence System details

Due to lack of data I am asuming that the Indian low level radras are operating in an atonomous rather than a netted mode.

This would give PAF an edge however as far as the sensors are concerned pretty even I would say

are you comparing MPDR and YLC with GS 100? GS 100 is generation ahead. It is a full solid state phased array radar developed by Thales of France and Raytheon on US.

IAF has some other low level radars, except INDRA and GS-100

Low Level Light Weight Radar

Ashlesha radar

It is an AESA radar

Bharani-2 radar

Bharani-1 radar

 

[BS_Buster]

3D Tactical Control Radar

3D Mobile Radar

BSR radar
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_o_no4M2xEPY/SdzlCDdEZ5I/AAAAAAAAGdU/t9byG1MZJpY/s1600-h/7-719307.jpg

BLR radar
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_o_no4M2xEPY/SdzlCeulIZI/AAAAAAAAGds/gbWjtF1sR6Y/s1600-h/10-721759.jpg

 

[darkhand08]

Hasn't anyone talked about the Integrated Space Cell.........It is a great strategic surveillance arm.

 

[silent hawk]

COMPARISION OF PAF AND IAF HIGH LEVEL SENSORS​

This is the comparision based on data gathered so far

PAF High level Sensors

TPS-77

VERA

YLC-2

TPS-43

IAF High level Sensors


GreenPine Radar

Sword Fish Radar

ST 68U

THD 1955

Once again both sides have a wide variety of high level sesors. IAF sensors have more range which gives them a strategic advantage. PAF has Vera which can identify targets which gives Pakistan a tactical edge. For both countries the area of interest in the high level regime is pretty well lit up.

Please add any radar if I have missed any. I have deliberately not added weapon control radars. .

 

[silent hawk]

Good you have an engineering background so you will understand what I'm about to say. The VERA system works on a refinement of the triangulation technique called wide area multilateration using time-difference-of-arrival (TDOA) technique. Wide area multilateration systems like VERA can detect and track cooperating aircrafts 300 kms into India outside of the VERA sensor network. Cooperative aircraft continuously transmit a signal similar to a transponder beacon or RACON. The characteristics of the signal should be known to the receiver for the system to perform TDOA calculations and track the aircraft outside the sensor network.

Non-cooperative targets need to be inside the sensor network to be accurately tracked. Outside the sensor network a system like VERA can detect the presence of a transmitter(aircraft) but it cannot accurately determine range, velocity or heading.

I aplogize for calling you a troll. What you say in your post about the Vera is correct. However as I mentioned in PAF all radars work in a netted mode and data from all radars is fused. When the data of Vera is fused with other sensors such as TPS-77, we get an identified picture with accurate range, velocity and heading.

 

[rockstarIN]

Rajendra is a passive Phased Array Radar developed by the Indian DRDO. It is a multifunction radar, capable of surveillance, tracking and engaging low radar cross section targets. It is the heart of the Akash Surface-to-air missile system and is the primary fire control sensor for an Akash battery.

 

[rockstarIN]

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/52874-indian-radar-systems.html

The above post is informative

 

[paritosh]

By the end of 2011, Pakistan plans to replace PAKSAT-1 with a new communication satellite PAKSAT-1R which will be manufactured exclusively for Pakistan. The satellite will support all conventional and modern Fixed Satellite Service (FSS) applications. The satellite will have a total of up to 30 transponders: 18 in Ku-band and 12 in C-band. To ensure high degree of reliability / availability of the system, two (02) fully redundant Satellite Ground Control Stations (SGCS) would be established in Karachi and Lahore, one to act as the Main and the other as Backup respectively.

This will contribute to our Armed Forces SATCOM abilities

you can't talk of communication satellites here...they'd help improve the clarity of your television transmission...
we have at least two dedicated military satellites...the CARTOSAT series and at least 11 remotes sensing satellites most of which provide a resolution of 1 metres...we have a dedicated space command cell...under the aegis of the IAF....
so there is no comparision whatsoever...
Tell me more about the SAR satellites of Pakistan...i am not up to date with that...

 

[silent hawk]

you can't talk of communication satellites here...they'd help improve the clarity of your television transmission...
we have at least two dedicated military satellites...the CARTOSAT series and at least 11 remotes sensing satellites most of which provide a resolution of 1 metres...we have a dedicated space command cell...under the aegis of the IAF....
so there is no comparision whatsoever...
Tell me more about the SAR satellites of Pakistan...i am not up to date with that...

There is relevance. Pakistan for quite some time has been operating a SATCOM system to provide data and voice. At present this system is dependent on foreign satellites. With our own satellite dependency on foreign elements shall be eliminated.

 

[silent hawk]

If possible please post a larger picture. Thanks

 

[darkhand08]

Sattellite surveillance is the next gen surveillance (in real time terms too).....Its good India is working on it....also ISRO and DRDO had announced earlier this year of developing Anti Sat Weapons...so Sattellite Defence is also focused at least.

 

[Hulk]

So far this thread is one of the best threads with civilized debate. Standing ovation from my side to all contributors. Please keep it that way.