PAF & the ramifications of Rafale's sale to India

[Cornered Tiger]

MIG-35 are already bring offered to us but I think we rejected it.

Dont really know about it. but we need to invest in a platform that can perform Air Superiority and Maritime Strike missions as well. simple is that

 

[weqi]

Yes they will provided you are able to prove that you can PAY for them

France will first do its own Due diligence on Pakistani financial condition

"Pakistani Financial Conditions" means whats going in intextile sector ,financial sector, service sector ets.but does it has any link with aircraft procurement while buyers pays you upfront cash

Hi,

That is incorrect---they are winning thru making friends and showing how important they are.

The BRAGGING that pakistanis used to do---show the GORA the money and they will sell everything to you has been smashed back at the faces of the pakistanis----.

Nobody wants to sell anything to pakistan---. Pakistan has deceived so many countries regarding the fighter aircraft purchase----now it is being paid bacvk in coin---.

You are lucky that south china seas issues came up for china----otherwise pakistan would not have a pot to pi-ss in even.

i said this because throughout this thread indian emphasis is "financial conditions of pakistan" i mean we are not discussing GDP of Pakistan Vs India

 

[wiseone2]

There's nothing stoping China from exporting its SU-27 derivates. The Chinese blatantly copied the Russian jets & inducted them in service. If anyone wants them, they will export them, same way they exported F-7s & F-6s & compete directly with similar Russian jets in the international market.

except that China could find themselves cut off from any future sales of Russian equipment
There is a reason China has not re-exported their copies of Su-27 and Su-30

 

[Falcon26]

except that China could find themselves cut off from any future sales of Russian equipment
There is a reason China has not re-exported their copies of Su-27 and Su-30

Future sales such as? I think you are confusing India with China. China's reliance on Russia has considerably gone down within past decade. Even recent limited purchase of Su-35s were forced by Russia as a condition to Chinese access to Russian engines.

I repeat: If the Chinese want to export their SU-27 derivates, there's nothing stoping them. The Russians lost billions of dollars the minute the Chinese reverse engineered the SU-27s and inducted them in the hundreds. They won't be outraged now because the Chinese export few squadrons of their products to Pakistan.

 

[ravi gupta]

i would like to thanks indians do you know why?

because this is india we are nuclear power.
because this is india we are going to next generation of aircrafts

atleat our fuel tanks must have such capacity to reach calcutta my dear for whatever reason

Thanks is very well accepted.
Becoz this nuclear power has not provided electricity and power to common people in your country.
Once they fly they are in range on S-400,dont know how far it can reach.

 

[weqi]

Thanks is very well accepted.
Becoz this nuclear power has not provided electricity and power to common people in your country.
Once they fly they are in range on S-400,dont know how far it can reach.

we pay complete respect to your S-400 or S-1TRILLION whatever
don't worry we won't let you alone in this race

 

[wiseone2]

Future sales such as? I think you are confusing India with China. China's reliance on Russia has considerably gone down within past decade. Even recent limited purchase of Su-35s were forced by Russia as a condition to Chinese access to Russian engines.

I repeat: If the Chinese want to export their SU-27 derivates, there's nothing stoping them. The Russians lost billions of dollars the minute the Chinese reverse engineered the SU-27s and inducted them in the hundreds. They won't be outraged now because the Chinese export few squadrons of their products to Pakistan.

Chinese are ruthless businessmen. If they reverse engineered the Su-27s they would have exported them. They have no issues re-exporting the J-7 by hundreds.

Why is PAF JF-17 running on RD-93 jet engine from Russia ? Why isn't PAF purchasing the J-10s ?

Chinese have purchased every Russian system - Mi-17s, Il-76s, Su-27s, Su-30s, Kilo subs, Sovremmeny class destroyers. If they could build it on their own they would not have purchased them.

 

[weqi]

Next gen. Aircrafts?
What aircrafts.?? Did your government selected atleast one aircraft now..
Or you guys are trying get aircrafts what we saw in Avatar movie?

we had not a single factory of paper at independence but now as you explain you have to sign a multi million dollars contract of s-400 (which are not in you inventory at current) even after acquiring this you will remain more coward.

dear friends we won't let you alone in this race.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

200 F-18s, 300 Su-35, 500 PAK-50s, 10000000 Asambhavi Vimans..

Seriously.

This is the Made in India dream...All aircraft even sold to other countries would still be called Indian along with the bases they are stationed.

 

[Falcon26]

Chinese are ruthless businessmen. If they reverse engineered the Su-27s they would have exported them. They have no issues re-exporting the J-7 by hundreds.

Why is PAF JF-17 running on RD-93 jet engine from Russia ? Why isn't PAF purchasing the J-10s ?

Chinese have purchased every Russian system - Mi-17s, Il-76s, Su-27s, Su-30s, Kilo subs, Sovremmeny class destroyers. If they could build it on their own they would not have purchased them.

I remember very vividly few years ago when Indian experts were vehemently claiming Russian engines will never power the JF-17 due to Indian pressure. We know very well the outcome.

To date no agreement has been reached between Rissia & China regarding exports of the Chinese SU-27 derivates. The Chinese don't even admit they reverse engineered those jets let alone accept Russian conditions regarding exportation of these jets. I would love to hear any substantive proof pointing otherwise.

As far as Chinese reliance of Russian hardware is concerned, it's increasingly becoming negligible. The equipment you have quoted have been ordered long time ago & Chinese equivalents exist. As I said, the Chinese have made tremendous advancements. The kilos & the SU-27/30s are very old story, the Chinese went their own way when invited to the PAK-FA program & responded with two distinct stealth projects. The times are changing, your arguments should too.

 

[leftfordead]

Imagine two enemy countries engaged in an air war. Both countries had enough money to buy and operate 100 Eurofighter typhoons. But one country choose the MIG 35. If those countries threw every jet they have at one another you would have 100 Eurofighters dealing with more than 300 MIG 35s. This means multiply the MIGs armament, the fuel, and the avionics by at least 3 against 1 eurofighter. Which country would be victorious in this air battle?

You do realize that there are other factors in Modern Air warfare ? like AWACS , SAM's , Jamming , Ground based Radar and so on .. picking up a plane because you will have it 3 against 1 .. is kind a unrealistic approach , some might agree but I don't .. With help of AWACS and Good SAM system , that one good plane can take on 3 from a stand-off distance ..
you should read the 65 Air battles between IAF and PAF ..

 

[Cornered Tiger]

You do realize that there are other factors in Modern Air warfare ? like AWACS , SAM's , Jamming , Ground based Radar and so on .. picking up a plane because you will have it 3 against 1 .. is kind a unrealistic approach , some might agree but I don't .. With help of AWACS and Good SAM system , that one good plane can take on 3 from a stand-off distance ..
you should read the 65 Air battles between IAF and PAF ..

You r very right mate. But when we consider one to one case we keep everyother thing constant or equivalent to null..

Hope u will understand my point

 

[leftfordead]

You r very right mate. But when we consider one to one case we keep everyother thing constant or equivalent to null..

Hope u will understand my point

I do understand but what you have to understand that in Air forces around the world they never buy any fighter based on 1v1 scenario .. cause its very unlikely , now when it comes to Air force like Pakistan with low budget and restricted option we have to make decision based on certain things ..

1. Quality
2. Training
3. Maintenance & spares
4. Sanctions
5. Weapon packages
6. diversity of using Pods and EW suites
and many more..

that is why in most case when a intrusion happen , All air forces launch multiple Fighters to intercept ..
I am not against Mig-35's , Su-35 or EFT .. what I learn from other senior members here is that we have to see that what this new Aircraft we are buying will add into our existing fleet and Capability ..
just like j-10's will not add anything unusual which our JF-17 cant add in near future ..

 

[Centurion2016]

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/indi...175?pfrom=home-lateststories&browserpush=true


Finally after 9 years of searching teasing the PAF the Indians have finally settled on Delivery date of Rafale

Deal to be DIGNED 23RD SEPTEMBER news breaking in france & India

Cost for 36 Rafales is $7.87 billion

Option for further 18 Rafales in follow on oder in 2021 WITH maX 10% price increase GURANTEED by France

PAF will FACE 3 dqds of Rafale by 2021-2022 WORST CASDE secenario

The deal includes hundreds od meteore ram jet & mica BVR missles and new criuise missle the SCALP new generation stealth land attack missle with range limited to 300km but capable of 500km range.

When we consider the $2.5 billion dollar upgrade of 50 mirage2000-5 the PAF will face over 100 highly advanced French fighters by 2021 alongside the huge fleet of 250+ Su30mki many of which will stat super upgrade

DISCUSS PAF OPTIONS

timescale
cost
tactics
alliances

THE INDIANS HAVE thrown gauntlet tp PAF the rafale is a true new level of technology in the neighbourhood

 

[Centurion2016]

http://scroll.in/latest/816620/india-to-sign-rafale-aircraft-deal-with-france-on-september-23-ndtv

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/hi...ce-to-sign-rafale-deal-on-sept-23/295668.html


One Single Rafale can do the job of 3 mirage2000/5 AS DASSULT the manufacturrs.

The SPECTRA ew suites add self protection capability amd stealth features that allow the Rafale to fly into enemy territory and deliver knock out hits with out detection.

ITS EXPECTED IAF will push for far more numbers than 36=18 follow on initially agreed on 23/09/2016