PAF pilots in combat with IDF/AF

[surya kiran]

Good side of what? There is never a good side or a good reason for killing an innocent. Feel free to talk to me I am here to answer you ask anything directly if you want to know the answer.

If the PA (Muslims) takes the help of the Americans (non Muslims) to kill Afghans (Muslims) is that good or bad?

If it's good? Why is it good? And good from whose perspective? The Afghans (Muslims) hold you responsible for the mess and say you are the bad people.

If it's bad then PA army is not a true Muslim army,as per your logic.

 

[saba shahid]

If the PA (Muslims) takes the help of the Americans (non Muslims) to kill Afghans (Muslims) is that good or bad?

If it's good? Why is it good? And good from whose perspective? The Afghans (Muslims) hold you responsible for the mess and say you are the bad people.

If it's bad then PA army is not a true Muslim army,as per your logic.

Well I must say I have never heard that before Pakistani Army taking help from Americans to kill afghans, afghans mostly accuse us for helping taliban but I must say I have never heard that before. Why would we need help to kill afghans at the first place? We even let them stay in our country millions of them for more the an decade.

 

[Leviza]

shameful part of our history when we rent our forces for gains

Never saw anything useful being said by you mate

I think proud part of our history when we stand by Muslim brothers for moral gains. Only

People like you are related to musharraf like guys , dil kay choway, zuban kay shair lol

 

[surya kiran]

Well I must say I have never heard that before Pakistani Army taking help from Americans to kill afghans, afghans mostly accuse us for helping taliban but I must say I have never heard that before. Why would we need help to kill afghans at the first place? We even let them stay in our country millions of them for more the an decade.

Well, historically PA has with the American state killed enough Afghans. Are you not aware of this? What do you think happened when there was an overthrow of the Soviet backed regime? Why do you think the Pakistani state keeps saying the CIA abandoned it?

In this scenario what was the PA as per your logic? Good side or bad side? They did kill Afghan Muslims with the backing of the American CIA.

 

[saba shahid]

Well, historically PA has with the American state killed enough Afghans. Are you not aware of this? What do you think happened when there was an overthrow of the Soviet backed regime? Why do you think the Pakistani state keeps saying the CIA abandoned it?

In this scenario what was the PA as per your logic? Good side or bad side? They did kill Afghan Muslims with the backing of the American CIA.

You know nothing, you are a complete fool who has no idea what is going on they never accuse us for helping americans, lets start with russia I will tell you the whole story. Russia fought with taliban who were created by Pakistan and trained by pakistan army actually they all were local pakistani and afghans tribal members. Now in that fight amercians help pakistan and taliban were able to defeat russia. Later when amercia invaded afghanistan they wanted to get their hands on those taliban after 9/11 which was also an inside job but since you are so dumb you might not know about that too. Now those taliban started fight with amercian and afghan forces. You should know that still afghan and american forces are fighting together against taliban and both of them accuse that taliban are being funded by Pakistan. You can check anywhere they accuse Pakistan for helping taliban not americans. Now when america forced Pakistan to also start operation in Pakistan in tribal areas, they had no other choice so they started operation there. And that was the war which was the biggest mistake of Pakistan. After that your agency RAW and many other secret agencies of different countries gave money to terrorists to fight against Pakistan in the name of Islam and now they created a new organisation known as ISIS which can travel through whole world to attack but cant move 30 km back to Israel , lol. At that time it was considered that Pakistan still helping taliban in afganistan, those taliban took control over half of the afghanistan and because of this afghanistan and americans think that Pakistan is playing a double game because there is no way those taliban could still stand strong against them after all those years. In the recent months when afghan president and people started putting blame on Pakistan so we decided to throw all of them out of our country and now that process is still underway. In this time indian modi came to afghanistan and acted like they are the bff. Afghans dumb still think that India is doing all that just because they are good people they dont know that it is all because of Pakistan. In the same time indian also made friendship with Iran to completely destabilize Pakistan so that somehow Pakistan would be left alone but you know we have ISI so no worries ez. Our pm might look like an idiot who gets dictation from other countries but believe me that really dont matter and there will never be peace in afghanistan until amercia leaves new government comes which will be ready to cooperate with Pakistan and negotiate with talibans.

 

[Imran Khan]

Never saw anything useful being said by you mate

I think proud part of our history when we stand by Muslim brothers for moral gains. Only

People like you are related to musharraf like guys , dil kay choway, zuban kay shair lol

yeah sir i am sorry to dissipated you

your same brothers have today good relations with Israel they are enjoying support of jew lobby in USA while we kiray ke fauji na gher ke na ghat .

 

[Leviza]

yeah sir i am sorry to dissipated you

your same brothers have today good relations with Israel they are enjoying support of jew lobby in USA while we kiray ke fauji na gher ke na ghat .

Lol mate that's is difference

Even if some one turn wrong doesn't mean we have too as well

Or let me put it this way ...

Enjoying powerful lobby or standing with world power does not make someone right

Standing for principles and standing with truth make things right , atleast ones own inner peace

But you won't understand mate as USA is the only thing you can think off and few wrong moves by army doesn't mean whole of the army was wrong

As far as I can search the history and being on topic Pakistan never got any payments for these acts and these fighters were only voluntary took part in those wars

So they were not rented as no payments were involved but on other hand I'm not sure about you , it looks like you have sold yourself for very cheap price

 

[Azadkashmir]

INDIAN AGAIN GETTING INVOLVED IN TOPICS THAT DONT INVOLVED THEM.
THESE SHAMELESS CREATURES.

 

[surya kiran]

You know nothing, you are a complete fool who has no idea what is going on they never accuse us for helping americans, lets start with russia I will tell you the whole story. Russia fought with taliban who were created by Pakistan and trained by pakistan army actually they all were local pakistani and afghans tribal members. Now in that fight amercians help pakistan and taliban were able to defeat russia. Later when amercia invaded afghanistan they wanted to get their hands on those taliban after 9/11 which was also an inside job but since you are so dumb you might not know about that too. Now those taliban started fight with amercian and afghan forces. You should know that still afghan and american forces are fighting together against taliban and both of them accuse that taliban are being funded by Pakistan. You can check anywhere they accuse Pakistan for helping taliban not americans. Now when america forced Pakistan to also start operation in Pakistan in tribal areas, they had no other choice so they started operation there. And that was the war which was the biggest mistake of Pakistan. After that your agency RAW and many other secret agencies of different countries gave money to terrorists to fight against Pakistan in the name of Islam and now they created a new organisation known as ISIS which can travel through whole world to attack but cant move 30 km back to Israel , lol. At that time it was considered that Pakistan still helping taliban in afganistan, those taliban took control over half of the afghanistan and because of this afghanistan and americans think that Pakistan is playing a double game because there is no way those taliban could still stand strong against them after all those years. In the recent months when afghan president and people started putting blame on Pakistan so we decided to throw all of them out of our country and now that process is still underway. In this time indian modi came to afghanistan and acted like they are the bff. Afghans dumb still think that India is doing all that just because they are good people they dont know that it is all because of Pakistan. In the same time indian also made friendship with Iran to completely destabilize Pakistan so that somehow Pakistan would be left alone but you know we have ISI so no worries ez. Our pm might look like an idiot who gets dictation from other countries but believe me that really dont matter and there will never be peace in afghanistan until amercia leaves new government comes which will be ready to cooperate with Pakistan and negotiate with talibans.

Let us assume, I am a fool and know nothing. Feel free to correct me.

Now what I have highlighted. Your discussion is highlighting events post 9/11. But then. let's look at that too.

Russians and Americans are not Muslims. So what they do or do not do has no bearing on our conversation. Who do you think Dostum was fighting? He has served as the VP of Afghanistan. You were definitely fighting him and his faction with the backing of the Americans. Who are they? Muslims.

So did the PA and the Americans not fight against Afghan Muslims? They did. Feel free to correct me.

Now coming to the post 9/11 scenario. The PA is killing Afghan Muslims by working with the Afghan Taliban. What is your opinion on that? Muslims killing Muslims in the name of the what they believe is 'good'.

The PA also helped the Americans fight and kill Afghans and Pakistanis who were with the Taliban. Was that 'good'? The intel of course came from the ISI. This is confirmed by Musharraf and maybe half your PA Generals, who say without Pakistan the Americans would not have been able to defeat the Taliban. Which means the PA (Muslims) turned on the Taliban (who were Afghan and Pakistani Muslims) on the behest of Americans (non Muslims) who they considered friends! Bagal mein churi muh mein Ram ram or whatever)

So, first scenario. Soviet Afghan war. You with the Americans backed the mujahideen who fought Soviet and Afghan forces who backed the Soviets.

Second scenario. You turned on your Muslim friends and attacked them with non Muslims, just because you were threatened (As confirmed by Musharraf) by the non Muslims.

Now, what is your opinion on the PA and the Pakistani state?

Never saw anything useful being said by you mate

I think proud part of our history when we stand by Muslim brothers for moral gains. Only

People like you are related to musharraf like guys , dil kay choway, zuban kay shair lol

You do realise he is ex PN, right?

yeah sir i am sorry to dissipated you

your same brothers have today good relations with Israel they are enjoying support of jew lobby in USA while we kiray ke fauji na gher ke na ghat .

Mistaking strategic imperatives for religious imperatives is a very common mistake nowadays. As evidently visible in this thread.

 

[Leviza]

You do realise he is ex PN, right?

Well do you know there are some bad eggs as well or black sheeps ?

Some ppl used to get into armed forces due to best carriers but now they are called ex for a reasons
Even dogs are better than those ex ppl as they are loyal to who ever give them

I hope it's not too rude for him but truth sometimes hurts

 

[Hamza913]

May I ask who the hell gave you this right to fight on behalf of Muslims all over the world? First feed your own country-(wo)men, educate them, protect them from daily terrorist attacks etc then talk about being a regional or any player. We Indian Muslims do not need your advocacy or help. Stay Off.

Muslims help Muslims, don't be blinded by petty nationalism that divides us.

Dear sister ... i also believe that islam is above nationalism but i would like to himbly request you that you have no right to declare anyone non.muslim or murtad untill and unless he openly denies the basic principles of islam ... so on political front a person can have different views and whether he was correct or not is to be judged by Allah not me and you ...

We are already divided alot so kindly please restrain from further division ...

It's haram to declare someone a legitimate kafir if you have no evidence

HOWEVER

There is this thing known as kafir in practice, where whilst someone might not technically be a kaifr, their actions make them the equivalent of one. Acts which equate to this are numerous, one of them would be nationalism and disassociation with the Ummah.

What is with Pakistan and glorying lost wars? The fact remains Israel kicked the @ss of all Arab and supporting countries including Pakistan real bad in just six days. It's like after losing the match stating, our players really played the 34th over very nicely although you lost the match by 200 runs.

How did they kick our @ss? We didn't lost a single jet, they lost 10. The Arabs got hammered, not us.

But getting help from a non muslim to fight a muslim is not fine?

Yes, that's the general rule of thumb.

Second part. What is good side?

Good Muslim = Good
Good non Muslim = Neutral
Everyone else = Bad

That's the general gist of it.

If the PA (Muslims) takes the help of the Americans (non Muslims) to kill Afghans (Muslims) is that good or bad?

If it's good? Why is it good? And good from whose perspective? The Afghans (Muslims) hold you responsible for the mess and say you are the bad people.

If it's bad then PA army is not a true Muslim army,as per your logic.

Pakistani military takes American help to kill off militants through drone strikes. This is a grey area, some can regard the militants as munafiq or even khawarij for their actions against Muslims, meaning the general rule of thumb of no non Muslim help against fighting Muslims wouldn't apply. However, some would still consider the militants Muslims, so getting American help would be haram. It's a grey area.

As for Afghanistan, the Pakistani military is between a rock and a hard place. It cannot refuse to help NATO, so it's forced to. But that doesn't mean we don't covertly help the Afghans kill the occupying scum and the puppet pedophile regime.

 

[MastanKhan]

Much obliged, thanks
Being a muslim means that you all have one identity and you all are one nation. The color of the skin has nothing to do in Islam nor I have said anything about it. When everyone dies the language in which they answer in grave is arabic and our holy book is in arabic so yeah in a manner we can say we do have one language. In fact it is the biggest reason of not understanding Quran that we can read Arabic but we cant understand it.


No one said anything about qari sb its a surah in Quran which is the holy book of muslims if you ever had a chance to meet any muslim you might have heard about it.

Hi.

You don't have one identity being a muslim---. It means you have one ' faith'.

Maybe in death we become of one language---but in life we all have our ethnic identities---.

Ethnic languages and identities are a fact and a reality like the day light or the dark of the night---.

If you want to dig deeper---then you need to look at the battle fields of old wars--how the armies were setup to fight with their ethnic and linguistic backgrounds----yes the muslim armies---. Even though this was and is no secret in any other army---all armies were grouped up on their basis of ethnicity or language---.

Just like we have punjab reg---baluch reg---frontier force---sindh reg---similarly---in the past---troops comprised of their ethnic groups even under the flag of islam---.

Why do the pakistanis have an itch to be one nation---because they don't have a real historical IDENTITY of being a nation---they are looking at every other nook and cranny for identity---.

A 70 years old nation---compare to thousand years old history of other muslim nations---.

You want to give them away because you got nothing of your own yet.

Young lady---like every other pakistani---you are wasting your time and energy on something that is futile---has proven futile and will prove futile---but because you are a pakistani---you would die fighting this futility---rather than accept that your line of thought was not in sync with the reality on the ground---.

And why would you do that---because you do not have the ability to think---you have not been given the ability to think---. Good luck.

 

[surya kiran]

Good Muslim = Good

However, some would still consider the militants Muslims, so getting American help would be haram. It's a grey area.

As for Afghanistan, the Pakistani military is between a rock and a hard place. It cannot refuse to help NATO, so it's forced to. But that doesn't mean we don't covertly help the Afghans kill the occupying scum and the puppet pedophile regime.

How can there a grey area? Either its haram or its not haram. If its haram, then the PA is involved in it. So let us call it out. If it's not haram, then you are saying there is a side which is good and the other side is bad.

If it's grey can you point out in Quran where it is okay to have a grey path and not the path of righteousness.

Coming to the Good Muslim = Good. Could you define whether the PA is a good muslim army? And by what parameters?

 

[SecularNationalist]

We should really stop this defenders and contractors of Islam policy.
Like every other nation we should protect our interests but religion should not be a motive.

 

[Hamza913]

How can there a grey area? Either its haram or its not haram. If its haram, then the PA is involved in it. So let us call it out. If it's not haram, then you are saying there is a side which is good and the other side is bad.

If it's grey can you point out in Quran where it is okay to have a grey path and not the path of righteousness.

Coming to the Good Muslim = Good. Could you define whether the PA is a good muslim army? And by what parameters?

It's a grey area because there isn't a consensus as to whether or not the militants within Pakistan as bad enough to merit Pakistan receiving direct support from non Muslims. That's what I meant, not that the Quran says it's a grey area.

A good Muslim army is one that doesn't harm other Muslims and follows Islam. The PA follows those lines pretty well (most of the time anyways, there are exceptions).