PAF: Pilot vs Platform

[war&peace]

PAF has produced some of the finest pilots in the world and this fact has been acknowledged by the friends and foes alike. Their sheer professionalism and skills enabled them to outperform a much larger adversary in almost any conflict between the two (PAF and IAF). However it would not be fair to underestimate or ignore the role of the machines involved in the conflict.
PAF displayed its power and professionalism in the 17-days long war India started on Sept 6, 1965 (in three days, we shall be celebrating the anniversary i.e. the Defence Day). PAF fielded F-86 sabre vs Indian Vampires and Gnats. Though Gnats (1955) was designed later than F-86F (1949 but upgraded to the new standards/blocks); both were a good match and neither possessed a decisive edge over the other. Thus a pilot could make a big difference in a conflict and PAF pilots proved their mettle by scoring massive kills against IAF during the war despite the huge numerical disparity.

PAF F-86 Sabre

PAF F-104 Starfighter

IAF GNAT

IAF Vampire

IAF Canberra

It is the combination of the pilot and the machine that decides the outcome of the mission. In a dog fight, the manoeuvrability of the machine is as important as the skills and agility of the man behind the machine are. However the modern technology has altered the equation in favour of the machine and pilots role and skills are as not as crucial as before. When I say modern technology the term encompasses the platform itself and the systems carried by it. The systems here mean the avionics (Radars, EW, ECM, Guidance and controls etc) and the weapons (A2G missiles, GBM, LRAAM, other precision strike weapons like ALCMs). With BVR LRAAMs and advanced radars and stealth technology, the dogfights of the future will be drastically different and superior platform will play much more significant part than the superior skills of the pilot. Almost all 4th A/C are equipped with FBW system and the flight-computer plays a pivotal role in controlling the movement of the control surfaces on the airframe that has been designed to be inherently unstable so as to increase the manoeuvrability of the machine thus allowing the pilot to focus more on mission than just flying the machine.

PAF F-16C/D Block 52+

PAF JF-17 Thunder

Continue.......

 

[war&peace]

PAF F-7pg

IAF Su-30 MKI

IAF Tejas

The fifth gen. A/Cs take this a step further and pilots is more free from flying than the previous gen. A/Cs and it is predicted that 6th gen. A/C may very well be a pilotless or optionally piloted machine. Artificial intelligence has made great advances and now it is in the position to take on to the human pilots and recently it was reported that it has beaten a veteran pilot.

F-35

USAF F-22

PLAAF J-20

PLAAF J-31

TAI TFX

The conventional skill-set of the pilots will play a lesser role in future fights and thus it behoves a change of mindset and more resources should be invested in better hardware instead of simply relying on the man power. The only constant in the universe is the change; the individuals, institutions and/or the nations who are not ready for the change, risk their survival.


@Oscar @Windjammer @MastanKhan @Quwa @Indus Falcon @salarsikander @hellfire @Mugwop @Arsalan

Disclaimer: All images have been taken from internet and their copy rights belong to their rightful owners.

 

[The Eagle]

PAF F-104 Starfighter

 

[risingsinga]

Very well written article ( I assume you wrote it) my friend. It provided me some insight into the history of Pakistan air force in a quick overview. i also agree that future aircraft will be more autonomous and carry out missions themselves but somewhere in the later half of the century...when you and me will be old guys
I could only like but I wish a few positive ratings as you deserve it. Congratulations

@PaklovesTurkiye @HAKIKAT

 

[MastanKhan]

The fabled B57 bomber---this one might be the converted surveillance aircraft of the PAF.

 

[war&peace]

View attachment 331231


The fabled B57 bomber---this one might be the converted surveillance aircraft of the PAF.

Yeah I saw it displayed on Masroor airbase but it was a bomber I believe. May be they converted it into reconnaissance A/C

 

[MastanKhan]

Yeah I saw it displayed on Masroor airbase but it was a bomber I believe. May be they converted it into reconnaissance A/C

No sir---the ones that the U S had converted to spy over china and russia---I think they gave us 3 of them.

Now---here is another act of treason by Paf---stated by a usaf officer---he did not state treason---but just read---.

Bhutto knew that paf pilots were flying this aircraft---he asked Paf air chief if he could fly it over kashmir area and bring some pictures for pak amry---.

The Pak air chief refused---that this was only for the u s---he would not do it for pak army---. The results might have been very different if pak army had the recon pictures---.

That is why I keep repeating---the heirarchy of Paf are ingrained Traitors of pakistan.

 

[war&peace]

No sir---the ones that the U S had converted to spy over china and russia---I think they gave us 3 of them.

Now---here is another act of treason by Paf---stated by a usaf officer---he did not state treason---but just read---.

Bhutto knew that paf pilots were flying this aircraft---he asked Paf air chief if he could fly it over kashmir area and bring some pictures for pak amry---.

The Pak air chief refused---that this was only for the u s---he would not do it for pak army---. The results might have been very different if pak army had the recon pictures---.

That is why I keep repeating---the heirarchy of Paf are ingrained Traitors of pakistan.

This is really shocking revelation but was Bhutto FM or PM..I mean when was it?
As I know that CAS just before Noor Khan was kept in darkness by the army about any of its operations and he retired in August 1965 fortunately for Pakistan since Noor Khan really fought and lead his force from the front.

 

[A_Poster]

View attachment 331231


The fabled B57 bomber---this one might be the converted surveillance aircraft of the PAF.

A plane of that vintage would be shot down as soon as it get airborne. SAMs and A to A missiles would be able to operate at their maximum envelop for a plane of that size (which means upto 300 Km, and even 400Km if India get S-400), and it being an ancient plane lacking ECM measures would be one shot one kill.

Do you really think that best weapon with your enemy is a slingshot when you suggest using such ancient junk in battle? Even US with its mighty air-force never sends its conventional bombers without first gaining air-supremacy.

 

[war&peace]

You should blame India for PAF's problems

We denied you AL 31 and hence you could not get J 10

SImilarly the French avionics package for JF 17 was also stopped by India

The recent stopping of US aid for F 16s is also a Indian lobbying result

Your lies were exposed and countered by @Oscar on another thread but you are repeating the same lies again.
It is PAF itself that does not want J-10 otherwise it would have been in PAF in large numbers. If India was influential enough, it would have forced Russia to stop RD93 for JF-17 and making it very difficult for PAF to get it on time.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

You lies were exposed and countered by @Oscar on another thread but you are repeating the same lies again.
It is PAF itself that does not want J-10 otherwise it would have been in PAF in large numbers. If India was influential enough, it would have forced Russia to stop RD93 for JF-17 and making it very difficult for PAF to get it on time.

JF 17 was never a threat to India and never will be

I dont understand what satisfaction you derive by BLAMING PAF

PAF Neither controls the Finances in Pakistan NOR it can influence
foreign countries like Russia and France

What is the HARM in blaming India

 

[A_Poster]

No sir---the ones that the U S had converted to spy over china and russia---I think they gave us 3 of them.

Now---here is another act of treason by Paf---stated by a usaf officer---he did not state treason---but just read---.

Bhutto knew that paf pilots were flying this aircraft---he asked Paf air chief if he could fly it over kashmir area and bring some pictures for pak amry---.

The Pak air chief refused---that this was only for the u s---he would not do it for pak army---. The results might have been very different if pak army had the recon pictures---.

That is why I keep repeating---the heirarchy of Paf are ingrained Traitors of pakistan.

RB57 had a role ib 1965 which it played, even though it was already outdated them. In 1971, it was a sitting duck.

One RB-57 ,on loan from USA, was used in 1965 war and shot down by SA-2 missile. That missile has higher ceiling than RB-57. Sending it against improved SAMS and interceptors is like sending your pilots to assured death.

Another thing to remember is that those planes were loaned for spying against USSR , not sold or leased.

This has been discussed on PDF itself and you have participated in that discussion. I don't think why you still persist with thinking that RB57 were some wonder weapons.

https://defence.pk/threads/1965-war-role-of-the-rb-57f.60610/

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

@MastanKhan

You should blame India for PAF's problems

We denied you AL 31 and hence you could not get J 10

SImilarly the French avionics package for JF 17 was also stopped by India

The recent stopping of US aid for F 16s is also a Indian lobbying result

Are you paid by word for your propaganda efforts?

 

[war&peace]

Are you paid by word for your propaganda efforts?

You nailed it...he has been repeating the same lines while Oscar proved all his BS false but he is persistent. Let's see what the mods do to him.

 

[A2Z]

PAF has produced some of the finest pilots in the world and this fact has been acknowledged by the friends and foes alike. Their sheer professionalism and skills enabled them to outperform a much larger adversary in almost any conflict between the two (PAF and IAF). However it would not be fair to underestimate or ignore the role of the machines involved in the conflict.
PAF displayed its power and professionalism in the 17-days long war India started on Sept 6, 1965 (in three days, we shall be celebrating the anniversary i.e. the Defence Day). PAF fielded F-86 sabre vs Indian Vampires and Gnats. Though Gnats (1955) was designed later than F-86F (1949 but upgraded to the new standards/blocks); both were a good match and neither possessed a decisive edge over the other. Thus a pilot could make a big difference in a conflict and PAF pilots proved their mettle by scoring massive kills against IAF during the war despite the huge numerical disparity.

PAF F-86 Sabre

PAF F-104 Starfighter

IAF GNAT

IAF Vampire

IAF Canberra

It is the combination of the pilot and the machine that decides the outcome of the mission. In a dog fight, the manoeuvrability of the machine is as important as the skills and agility of the man behind the machine are. However the modern technology has altered the equation in favour of the machine and pilots role and skills are as not as crucial as before. When I say modern technology the term encompasses the platform itself and the systems carried by it. The systems here mean the avionics (Radars, EW, ECM, Guidance and controls etc) and the weapons (A2G missiles, GBM, LRAAM, other precision strike weapons like ALCMs). With BVR LRAAMs and advanced radars and stealth technology, the dogfights of the future will be drastically different and superior platform will play much more significant part than the superior skills of the pilot. Almost all 4th A/C are equipped with FBW system and the flight-computer plays a pivotal role in controlling the movement of the control surfaces on the airframe that has been designed to be inherently unstable so as to increase the manoeuvrability of the machine thus allowing the pilot to focus more on mission than just flying the machine.

PAF F-16C/D Block 52+

PAF JF-17 Thunder

Continue.......

No doubt PAF's pilots are one of the best trained in the world but what happened in the past has become the part of past. Back then we were technologically on par if not advanced then our adversary but today we have neither the matching quantity nor quality.