PAF Long Range Capabilities

[Abingdonboy]

Sorry i thought you were talking about 1989 and 1998 contingencies. Yes, in today's scenario,conventional assets are not viable to send and contingencies plan has changed, that's why we have Air Force Strategic Command which will utilize the strategic assets for retaliation.

Okay fair enough- I probably was 't clear enough! Anyways, it is fair to say that Paksktan would utilise strategic assets to retaliate but this implies Pakistan has been attacked by Israel and in what scenario do you see this happening? As I see it Israel and Paksktan have very little direct contact, ideologically they sit on opposing sides but they have little to do with one another so why does Pakistan think an attack from Israel likely. Unless the context is India, I doubt Paksitan is ever mentioned of addressed in Israel.

 

[Mosamania]

Does PAF has long strike capabilities? Most certainly yes and the F-16 Block52s with CFT are just for exactly that. Like the Israelis, PAF CFTs is for the inability to acquire or (get more in case of Israelis) of Deep Strike Aircrafts like the F-15E due to budget constraints.

Why would PAF respond to Israel in case Israel attacks Iran? That doesn't make any sense that's one.

Second to carry out a mission of this sort you need more than careful planning and a whole lot of luck. You need to carry out a SEAD mission to punch a hole in the enemy defenses and then you need a whole lot of sorties amd jets for that. You need a country close to Israel to provide a safe haven and Plan B for that most notably KSA due to Saudi-Pakistani relations.

But then if we are going to house the PAF Aircrafts for it we might as well just do it ourselves since we have a better capability to carry out such a mission (F-15s, Tornadoes and Typhoons all capable of deep strike). But then again it doesn't make any sense anymore.

 

[LeGenD]

I see no reason why Pakistan cannot develop 'long-range cruise missiles' other than the fact that, as far as my understanding goes, they're not needed as per our current threat-assessment ! Israel doesn't pose an immediate threat to Pakistan nor even an indirect one for that matter; yes they may try to take out our Nuclear Facilities but as far as I've heard both the PA & the PAF have contingencies for such an event in place.

Nicely put. Agreed.

I think that Israel has gotten past the phase of prevention of nuclearization of Pakistan. Pakistan - as a nuclear power - is now a reality that entire world accepts.

On a side note - Are ABM systems really that effective ? I thought even the Aegis was alleged not to be able to stop the Chinese long-range cruise missile *the one dubbed as the carrier-killer...was it called the DF-31 or something ?*

As is the case with many other weapon systems, MDS are also being improved with passage of time.

Just consider the history of Patriot Air-Defence System. During Persian Gulf War 1991, this System was in PAC 1 phase and it failed to intercept a single missile. During Operation Iraqi Freedom 2003, this System was in PAC 3 phase and it performed really well. For details: Patriot Missile Long-Range Air-Defence System - Army Technology

As far as Aegis Combat System is concerned; it comprises of different kinds of interceptors to ensure multi-layered defence against different missile types. I doubt that it will be possible for any type of missile to slip past Aegis Combat System unless fired in overwhelming numbers.

As far as Chinese Carrier-Killer Missile is concerned; it is an ASBM (DF-21D) and not a long-range Cruise Missile. In theory, this missile is touted to be able to hit and disrupt a fully operational and moving Aircraft Carrier but it is yet to be evaluated for this claim. It sounds more like a PSYOPS weapon at the moment and is not difficult to intercept when keeping in mind that US is currently assigning its advanced MDS the capability to intercept even Cruise Missiles. For some news in this regard: BBC News - China's concerns over US-Japan missile deal

Israeli history shows that it is quick to learn lessons from its conflicts. Persian Gulf War 1991 encouraged Israel to initiate Arrow Missile Defence program to counter the threats of various types of Ballistic Missiles. Later on, war with Hezbollah in 2006 encouraged Israel to initiate Iron Dome Missile Defence program. In addition, their are more programs in the pipeline. As far as status is concerned, Arrow Missile Defence System is not yet battle-proven but has excellent record in testing. And Iron Dome Missile Defence System is not just deployed but also battle-proven.

For more details;

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/space/arrow/docs/Arrow_overview.pdf

Israel Arrow Missile Defense System Upgraded

MissileThreat :: Arrow

 

[Abingdonboy]

Does PAF has long strike capabilities? Most certainly yes and the F-16 Block52s with CFT are just for exactly that. Like the Israelis, PAF CFTs is for the inability to acquire or (get more in case of Israelis) of Deep Strike Aircrafts like the F-15E due to budget constraints.

Why would PAF respond to Israel in case Israel attacks Iran? That doesn't make any sense that's one.

Second to carry out a mission of this sort you need more than careful planning and a whole lot of luck. You need to carry out a SEAD mission to punch a hole in the enemy defenses and then you need a whole lot of sorties amd jets for that. You need a country close to Israel to provide a safe haven and Plan B for that most notably KSA due to Saudi-Pakistani relations.

But then if we are going to house the PAF Aircrafts for it we might as well just do it ourselves since we have a better capability to carry out such a mission (F-15s, Tornadoes and Typhoons all capable of deep strike). But then again it doesn't make any sense anymore.

Once again what do you think he chances are of he US allowing PAF F-16s to attack its closest ally? 0? Near 0? It is all well and good having his capability but actually being in a position to use ottos quite another.

If the PAF wants to attack Israel it will have to do so sojourn their F-16s.

 

[Pfpilot]

Once again what do you think he chances are of he US allowing PAF F-16s to attack its closest ally? 0? Near 0? It is all well and good having his capability but actually being in a position to use ottos quite another.

If the PAF wants to attack Israel it will have to do so sojourn their F-16s.

I think you are missing a crucial point. If Pakistan decided to attack the closest ally of the US, it would be clearly defying US policy and would as such be liable to sanctions from the get go. Whatever else Pakistan does will have only a marginal impact on the US reaction.

An attack on Israel would render any American limitations on F-16s irrelevant, since we would never again see any spares after such an attack and would most likely never see another piece of American hardware. Appeasing Americans, in terms of limiting operational capabilities of the F-16s, is done to maintain a cordial relationship in the present and going forward. We respect their rules because we expect to do further business with them and/or fear the consequences.
If the PAF ever went ahead with an Israeli attack, we could fly our F-16s everywhere; chances are, it is the last time we do so without crushing sanctions, but that is exactly the point. An attack on Israel assumes we are ending our relationship with the US and as such leaves all US origin equipment no longer subject to their restrictions.

This is probably also a good reason not to attack any US allies; it would be a political disaster and the reply would do far greater damage to us, than we could ever inflict on the Israelis.

 

[Storm Force]

Just putting things into perspective a little

PAF attacking any israeli instalation is IMPOSSIBLE

The BEST Single sqn in the entire AIRFORCE of PAF is the F16/52 of 18 brand new fighters.

The israelis currently possess 400 fighters in this LEAGUE or better

They have satalite recon that is linked to USA GPS coverage and batteries of ABM systems.

Awacs cover by both USA supplied Hawkeye and phalcon.

I am not sure even the Turks or Russians or Saudis could get close AND THEY have multiple more options than Pakistan.

Very brave thought BUT almost fictional espcially looking at the geo political locations.

 

[Storm Force]

An example of what any nation may have to GO THRU to get into israeli istalations

Facing a Growing Missile Threat, Israel revamps Air defense Command | Defense Update Portal

NOT EASY IS IT

 

[aanshu001]

I thought this thread was far PAF long range capabilities but it had changed in attack plan on Israel.

Pakistan will not attack on Israel, coz she is not in condition to lose US grants and face economic sanctions and if they do then they had to faced the best network centric force capable in advance electronic warfare under most potent AWACS umbrella which uses most deadly A2A missiles (both WVR & BVR) and advance SAM system ( Barak, Arrow, spyder).

PAF long range capabilities in case of India centric mission.

• No refueler for F-16
• JF -17 need more time to mature
• No buddy refueling
• Other platforms including much hyped (Mirage - Rose 3) are not capable of the same.

India's very potent sam system - PAF need to face various soviet missiles along with modern Aksah, Barak 8 (in future), Spyder system, backed with Green Pine, Sowrdfish, Rohini, Rajendra, Indra, Aeroset and GS -8 radar system along with old soviet radars

One also needed to remember the BVR cover for any SEED mission ( ex - Mig 29 escorted Mirage 2000 in Kargil) how many PAF platform are capable in same when Indian basic interceptors are loaded with BVR and will get support from AWACS (currently Phalcon and in future Indian also).

With current capabilities PAF is mainly a self defence force hopefully JF-16 will add more meat in SEED mission in next decade

 

[Pak47]

^

Great.. here come the trolls.

 

[Mitro]

The IAF can certainly deny the ability for the PAF to intrude into Indian airspace and can take the fight to Pakistan in its own airspace but to leave the PAF combat ineffective without the situation going nuclear on the Pakistani side seems far- fetched-the Pakistani leadership simply wouldn't tolerate such heavy losses on their side especially if the IAF is allowed to gain air-supremacy in Pakistan the IA and IN will have pretty much free reign to wreck havoc on Pakistan.

In both the major war with pakistan we were never in the position or near to air supremacy on PAF .
even tough we were more in number with better tech and weapon .Paf is very professional air force with lots of experience we all know what they did to israel in arab israel war and soviet fighter in afghanistan and pakistan border in eighties.

 

[Peregrine]

An example of what any nation may have to GO THRU to get into israeli istalations

Facing a Growing Missile Threat, Israel revamps Air defense Command | Defense Update Portal

NOT EASY IS IT

May be that is exactly why they couldn't detect the remote control toy of Hizbullah, encircling over Izraeels nuclear site.

 

[Edevelop]

I thought this thread was far PAF long range capabilities but it had changed in attack plan on Israel.

Pakistan will not attack on Israel, coz she is not in condition to lose US grants and face economic sanctions and if they do then they had to faced the best network centric force capable in advance electronic warfare under most potent AWACS umbrella which uses most deadly A2A missiles (both WVR & BVR) and advance SAM system ( Barak, Arrow, spyder).

PAF long range capabilities in case of India centric mission.

• No refueler for F-16
• JF -17 need more time to mature
• No buddy refueling
• Other platforms including much hyped (Mirage - Rose 3) are not capable of the same.

India's very potent sam system - PAF need to face various soviet missiles along with modern Aksah, Barak 8 (in future), Spyder system, backed with Green Pine, Sowrdfish, Rohini, Rajendra, Indra, Aeroset and GS -8 radar system along with old soviet radars

One also needed to remember the BVR cover for any SEED mission ( ex - Mig 29 escorted Mirage 2000 in Kargil) how many PAF platform are capable in same when Indian basic interceptors are loaded with BVR and will get support from AWACS (currently Phalcon and in future Indian also).

With current capabilities PAF is mainly a self defence force hopefully JF-16 will add more meat in SEED mission in next decade

Don't know why India comes in this scenario but here is something you already have a hard time following along in:

PL-12A BVR
R-DARTER BVR
AIM-120C AMRAAM
MAR-1 ARM
MAA-1 Piranha Short Range Missile
PL-9C Short Range Missile
PL-5 Short Range Missile
AIM-9 P/L Short Range Missile
Ra'ad Stealthy Air Launched Cruise Missile
Babur Cruise Missie
C-802A Anti Shipping Missile
C-803A Anti-Shipping Missile
H2 SOW
H4 SOW
GBU-10 Paveway II Laser Guided Bomb
GBU-12 Paveway II Laser Guided Bomb
CBU-100 Cluster Bomb
Matra Durandal Anti Runway Bomb
MK-82 Bombs
MK-84 Bombs
ANZA I, II, III SAM
SPADA 2000 SAM
HQ-9 SAM
NASR
Abdali
Ghaznavi
Ghauri I, II
Shaheen I, IA, II

You say no Air Refuelling??? Does this ring a bell to you now:

Mirage Rose Upgrade:

F-16 Block 40 MLU

F-16 Block 52

 

[AUz]

I am not sure even the Turks or Russians or Saudis could get close AND THEY have multiple more options than Pakistan.

O.K , so in case of a (hypothetical) war between Israel and Russia (Not NATO/Israel vs Russia) ...Russian Air Force will not be able to get 'close to Israel'?

Are you ******* kidding me?

Please , don't take your buttering of Israel to the level of arse licking (a thing indians are famous for) ...

Israeli Air Force is no USAF. IDAF is just another professional airforce...IDAF NEVER faced any other professional airforces...In previous wars , Arabs were disorganized and NO WAY NEAR as potent as they are today. Even in 1973' , Egyptian Air Force battered Israelis badly in some battles.

And we all know what happened when Israelis faced their first Professional opponents (PAF pilots in Arab airplanes).

So give it a rest.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

I thought this thread was far PAF long range capabilities but it had changed in attack plan on Israel.

Pakistan will not attack on Israel, coz she is not in condition to lose US grants and face economic sanctions and if they do then they had to faced the best network centric force capable in advance electronic warfare under most potent AWACS umbrella which uses most deadly A2A missiles (both WVR & BVR) and advance SAM system ( Barak, Arrow, spyder).

PAF long range capabilities in case of India centric mission.

• No refueler for F-16
• JF -17 need more time to mature
• No buddy refueling
• Other platforms including much hyped (Mirage - Rose 3) are not capable of the same.

India's very potent sam system - PAF need to face various soviet missiles along with modern Aksah, Barak 8 (in future), Spyder system, backed with Green Pine, Sowrdfish, Rohini, Rajendra, Indra, Aeroset and GS -8 radar system along with old soviet radars

One also needed to remember the BVR cover for any SEED mission ( ex - Mig 29 escorted Mirage 2000 in Kargil) how many PAF platform are capable in same when Indian basic interceptors are loaded with BVR and will get support from AWACS (currently Phalcon and in future Indian also).

With current capabilities PAF is mainly a self defence force hopefully JF-16 will add more meat in SEED mission in next decade

after reading all yr analysis all i can do is this ....at u

 

[batmannow]

Surly PAF can strike israel at any well planned & well defeined mission bt the chances are 10 out of 100!
It can only happen if Iran get attacked & some one puts its fingers around pakistan nucks, dam PAF will do SS harakari missions for sure.
But potentialy its very long shot, right now pakistan is hving a secret & quiet frienndship with isreal which is still remains un-spoken & un-told jst like KSA?