PAF Heroes Who Surprised India !

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Modern infantry would be carrying shoulder launched sams in abundance.

Anti aircraft guns in the arena as well---. Do you really want your 100 + million dollar aircraft in there.

Here is one scenario where the gun is valuable as a last resort---.

Enemy has launched sub sonic cruise missiles at you valuable targets---your aircraft are coming back without any missiles but only with rounds for the gun---.

Now in this case---your aircraft with its guns loaded can chase the sub sonic missiles and try to take them out---. It still leaves your aircraft vulnerable by the enemy aircraft---but what you are trying to save maybe more important than saving your aircraft---.

But again---instead of the gun---I would rather have 2 WVR missiles on that mount---.

 

[Areesh]

In your face

Don't know where Kairser said as you claimed

But this is what neutral observers have to say for so called IAF proof

Indian Radar Data That Supposedly Proves They Downed An F-16 Is Far From "Irrefutable"

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...s-they-downed-an-f-16-is-far-from-irrefutable

Even neutral observers rejected and mocked IAF for its two months late proof

 

[Talon]

First they ask for imformation and then they ask for proof, kia yeh khula tazad nai.

Maybe they want a document with header:

Confidential.Not to be shared with any person not authorized to receive it.

 

[Areesh]

They Said more irrefutable proof is there but they won't give due to security reasons.

Kindly go to the link and read whole article. kaiser is quoted below the so called pic of Air marshal with sons.

Whatever IAF shared was a joke. Just like its performance on 27 February

As for Kaiser Tufail. I have read what he said and nope still all those random MS Paint pictures by IAF were far from being irrefutable. In fact Kaiser never asked for those MS paint slides.

 

[Khafee]

I never had any input on any of the training courses for the operational conversions. They will keep the cannon as hesitancy from what they experienced in Vietnam. Yes....the current warfare scenario has a larger demand for BVR for ACM hops or BFM yet they are keeping the cannon.

On a side note. My background is associated more with the test flying side, and with high performance particularly with a short stint on Vipers. Got some seat time to have some idea but very vague about the operational side.

Cheers and bye

I'm very happy to see your humility. Really appreciate it.

 

[Khafee]

Because the cannon goes beyond A2A; 150 PGU rounds from a M-61 can still shred a platoon of infantry.

With the proliferation of MANPADS, this is not the case anymore.

A Manpad with an "advertised" ceiling of 10k ft has been known to intercept at 13.5k ft. This means that a/c's have to maintain a min alt of 15k ft, from the highest point, in the op area. At that alt it is extremely difficult to strafe.

Although pilots are still taught, how & when to strafe, in case SEAD/DEAD has been achieved.

 

[Areesh]

I hope u know the difference between rejection of proof or saying there wasn't enough proof. There is the fine line which u'll ignore deliberately.

Some excerpts from your given link:

"However, the IAF has similarly declined to share the intercepted radio communications themselves or a transcript thereof, making it impossible to independently verify the claims. (emphasize on impossible to verify)

The whole article ends with this:
"India’s latest release of information is interesting, but it remains too circumstantial and limited to put the issue of whether or not the IAF shot down an F-16 to rest for good. The Indian government’s repeated claims, and the counter-claims of an audit of Pakistani Vipers, only seem to raise new questions about exactly what happened in the skies over Kashmir more than a month ago."

Thus they are themselves not sure. nothing to say more.

They are not sure since they don't believe in "proofs" shared by IAF and also declared it far from irrefutable as IAF claimed it to be

MS paint are your words not theirs. You guys first cried give me a proof like this, when we gave u guys now r crying that these are images. Yes we need to airlift you to IAF command and show the live radar images.

It is my words but then that is what the proofs of IAF were. No better than MS Paint drawings. It took those losers 2 months to share those images which are not satisfactory for anyone as shown by the article that I shared

Till now only thing that IAF shot down on 27 February 2019 beyond any doubt is its own MI17 and the incompetent airforce of India even failed to collect its blackbox in its own territory.

 

[Falcon26]

They Said more irrefutable proof is there but they won't give due to security reasons.

Kindly go to the link and read whole article. kaiser is quoted below the so called pic of Air marshal with sons.

All of Abhi’s missiles are accounted for, what did he “shot down” the supposed F-16 with?

 

[Raider 21]

I'm very happy to see your humility. Really appreciate it.

Likewise from you.

Cheers!!!

 

[TAC]

I hope u know the difference between rejection of proof or saying there wasn't enough proof. There is the fine line which u'll ignore deliberately.

Some excerpts from your given link:

"However, the IAF has similarly declined to share the intercepted radio communications themselves or a transcript thereof, making it impossible to independently verify the claims. (emphasize on impossible to verify)

The whole article ends with this:
"India’s latest release of information is interesting, but it remains too circumstantial and limited to put the issue of whether or not the IAF shot down an F-16 to rest for good. The Indian government’s repeated claims, and the counter-claims of an audit of Pakistani Vipers, only seem to raise new questions about exactly what happened in the skies over Kashmir more than a month ago."

Thus they are themselves not sure. nothing to say more.



MS paint are your words not theirs. You guys first cried give me a proof like this, when we gave u guys now r crying that these are images. Yes we need to airlift you to IAF command and show the live radar images.

So in the space of a couple of posts you've gone from claiming IAF has shown proof of F-16 downing and 'in your face' To 'Thus they are themselves not sure. nothing to say more'??? Instead of beating the drum about things that you are not sure about, why don't you talk about the things we do know for sure ie. 1 X Mig21 shot down, 1 x Helicoptor shot down by incompetent 'friendly' fire, Mighty SU30's so proud of escaping the fight with their butts intact that they've made a patch to celebrate the occasion. Do you want me to go on? Go figure what is in who's face.

 

[gambit]

I hope u know the difference between rejection of proof or saying there wasn't enough proof. There is the fine line which u'll ignore deliberately.

There is a difference between 'evidence' and 'proof'.

Evidences are discrete items that may or may not relate to each other.

Proof is when evidences are linked to each other with a logical explanation of why and how they are linked to each other. In other words, a 'proof' is a summation of evidences and reasoning. If there are insufficient evidences, there can be no proof.

So far in this event, India have failed to provide evidences, let alone a chain of evidences accompanied by an explanation, that a Pakistani F-16 was lost in combat.

 

[SIPRA]

There is a difference between 'evidence' and 'proof'.

Evidences are discrete items that may or may not relate to each other.

Proof is when evidences are linked to each other with a logical explanation of why and how they are linked to each other. In other words, a 'proof' is a summation of evidences and reasoning. If there are insufficient evidences, there can be no proof.

So far in this event, India have failed to provide evidences, let alone a chain of evidences accompanied by an explanation, that a Pakistani F-16 was lost in combat.

Expressed very well.

 

[Keysersoze]

You din't got my point. There is difference between rejecting any theory than to claiming Impossible to Independently Verify. Anyways truth will be out sooner than later.

The problem is that if truth goes against you what happens then? Will you deny it because it goes against what you think is truth?

 

[The Eagle]

Got ur point on difference between evidence and proof however as unfortunately there is very little scope for concrete evidences as the plane debri would be in Azad Kashmir and thus must have been cleared thoroughly and IAF won't the Irrefutable Evidences due to security reasons, will wait to let more info trickle down.

As you have joined recently, I would like to let you know that there is plenty of discussion in regard to Abhinandan ever taking a shot. Despite being answered, you are still not reading to understand but insist upon replying for the sake of typical Indian Social Media type argument. The plane wreckage along with all the armament attached to the pylon, burnt and bit in good condition suggests/proves that Abhinandan did not take any shot nor was able to shoot anything including Gun Ammo.

I will advise to go through the forum in different threads, use search option as well as try searching in relevant topics/sections to read in detail before asking for something or even starting the same old copy paste lines.

Hope not to see anymore repetition.

Regards,

 

[gambit]

Got ur point on difference between evidence and proof however as unfortunately there is very little scope for concrete evidences as the plane debri would be in Azad Kashmir and thus must have been cleared thoroughly and IAF won't the Irrefutable Evidences due to security reasons, will wait to let more info trickle down.

If Pakistan and the US presented convincing proof that no F-16 was lost, will India let the matter go? The radar tracks that India gave so far is hardly evidence, let alone a solid piece in a chain of evidences. So when the world sees the lack of evidences from one side and apparently more credible evidences from the other, it is difficult for us to be sympathetic to India. I understand that national pride is at stake here, and the Indian Air Force now have a black mark on its record, but objectively speaking, the more India persist in trying to salvage some face, the more face India will lose.