PAF F16-Blk70 possibly coming - TO BE CONFIRMED

[denel]

The strategic value games are like double edged swords so it could have happened by anytime. Even, whatever narrative India builds at the moment; can be counter productive or we might see nothing to benefit from. However, Pakistan favour argument is strong due to the Afghanistan Peace Talks deal while on other hand, if India has to stop US in this regard, will have to offer something bigger than that. Trump has already waved the CAATSA card for india in-case S-400 deal goes through.

We do have requirement but so have the choice but India is in tight spot in this equation of Vipers for PAF & Afghanistan. May be the desperately worded articles are into preparation for S-400 to come in.

Agreed, the end game is key - with all respect, peace is a must in Afghanistan; they have suffered long enough.

My friend just returned from Afghanistan, he has friends in US allied forces; there are reports they are dropping supplies periodically to the Taliban. I was skeptical but given the winds of change that are blowing; it will not be a surprise.

 

[The Eagle]

Good point!

Upgrade kits will be required for 76 + 20 = 96 a/c's

IF an a/c was shot down, upgrade kit will be for....?

The number of 120 Vipers is so magical and holds a whole different state of strategic game in itself. If, I say again if this come to the reality, the same is going to be the one giant leap of PAF transition which is being awaited since years with Vipers & JF-17 armed to teeth with AESA. Almost 300 advanced/AESA/4.5 + Gen birds covering Pakistan Airspace...a heavenly match of geography and modernized fleet size. We never had the opportunity like the moment and hopefully, the things will go ahead as planned and wished.

May ALLAH us with everything. Ameen.

Agreed, the end game is key - with all respect, peace is a must in Afghanistan; they have suffered long enough.

My friend just returned from Afghanistan, he has friends in US allied forces; there are reports they are dropping supplies periodically to the Taliban. I was skeptical but given the winds of change that are blowing; it will not be a surprise.

For the time being, we can assume that Afghanistan Peace deal is done & final. Yes, they have suffered a long war and not just for Afghanistan but peace is a must for the whole region. Pakistan wouldn't jump for the peace talks management if US ambition was to play otherwise. We can expect lot of sabotage attempts & in-fact hostiles wouldn't let this go that easily though, we have been through a lot of rough times and have gained enough experience/lessons as well. Afghanistan has been used by the same hostile elements against Pakistan so any sabotage attempt would be far less harming as compare to anti-Pakistan terrorists breeding ground in neighborhood. Furthermore, the deal is must for Trump legacy & US itself so the risk of sabotage exists very less. Russia & China wouldn't wish any unrest in Afghanistan & US want a peaceful exit and Pakistan been saying the same thing since years hence, major powers are on board in this.

What LM or US in whole offers in lieu of this Peace Talks efforts; is already seen by India or might realize later but the way I see & observe; any strategic offer wouldn't imbalance the region. India use to apply the tactics of hue & cry to seek attention or to weaken Pakistan from inside for strategical gains but it is noted that India is on Defence Shopping like a madman. Rafale are coming and that is the major imbalance in the region if PAF doesn't have much to defend so argument for the Vipers is strong from this point of view as well. As I said, it is a God sent opportunity and one will never miss it.

 

[denel]

The number of 120 Vipers is so magical and holds a whole different state of strategic game in itself. If, I say again if this come to the reality, the same is going to be the one giant leap of PAF transition which is being awaited since years with Vipers & JF-17 armed to teeth with AESA. Almost 300 advanced/AESA/4.5 + Gen birds covering Pakistan Airspace...a heavenly match of geography and modernized fleet size. We never had the opportunity like the moment and hopefully, the things will go ahead as planned and wished.

May ALLAH us with everything. Ameen.



For the time being, we can assume that Afghanistan Peace deal is done & final. Yes, they have suffered a long war and not just for Afghanistan but peace is a must for the whole region. Pakistan wouldn't jump for the peace talks management if US ambition was to play otherwise. We can expect lot of sabotage attempts & in-fact hostiles wouldn't let this go that easily though, we have been through a lot of rough times and have gained enough experience/lessons as well. Afghanistan has been used by the same hostile elements against Pakistan so any sabotage attempt would be far less harming as compare to anti-Pakistan terrorists breeding ground in neighborhood. Furthermore, the deal is must for Trump legacy & US itself so the risk of sabotage exists very less. Russia & China wouldn't wish any unrest in Afghanistan & US want a peaceful exit and Pakistan been saying the same thing since years hence, major powers are on board in this.

What LM or US in whole offers in lieu of this Peace Talks efforts; is already seen by India or might realize later but the way I see & observe; any strategic offer wouldn't imbalance the region. India use to apply the tactics of hue & cry to seek attention or to weaken Pakistan from inside for strategical gains but it is noted that India is on Defence Shopping like a madman. Rafale are coming and that is the major imbalance in the region if PAF doesn't have much to defend so argument for the Vipers is strong from this point of view as well. As I said, it is a God sent opportunity and one will never miss it.

Yes, Indians have the same habit of crying and lamenting as though sky is falling. I am smiling as Trevor Noah' Bollywood number comes to mind. Lets hope your leadership can capitalise on an new opportunity if it becomes available to its maximum.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

I am a bit amused by the response from those who were nay Sayers to buying more F-16' on Khafees revelations. I guess after Balakot things became more clear to a lot of us.

I have been saying all along that the most potent weapon in PAF arsenal is the upgraded F-16 armed with AMARAAM. Coupled with dedicated EW a/c and tactics, this combo has turned out to be a lethal mix for the enemy.

JF-17 were designed from the beginning to replace the F-7 and its derivatives with improvements added on as they became available. It is a potent platform today, and will soon be more potent with the advent of Block III.

However, as off today, F-16 remains the trump card ("Trump" card hmmmm) with its long range engagement capability. What we need now is to have longer range AESA radar equipped birds with later variant AMARAAM's.

On the side we need to keep on enhancing our EW capability and hone in our skills to use is even more effectively against the enemy.

 

[MastanKhan]

Agreed, the end game is key - with all respect, peace is a must in Afghanistan; they have suffered long enough.

My friend just returned from Afghanistan, he has friends in US allied forces; there are reports they are dropping supplies periodically to the Taliban. I was skeptical but given the winds of change that are blowing; it will not be a surprise.

Denel,

I am going to tell you an interesting story---you might have heard it---.

During the middle years of afghan war---pak military and US had a dispute and pakistan put sanction on supply movement from port of karachi to the pak / afg border---. No supply trucks were going thru and US military had to airlift rations & supply---. It lasted for awhile.

Pak military found out that the taliban attacks on the US military had decreased during that period---.

On further digging they found out---that from the border of Chamman in pak to the military base in Kandhar AFG---the US military was paying for safe passage of supply trucks to the taliban during normal times---.

As the taliban leadership did not get paid during this sanctions period---they did not have money to pay the wages to their fighters---so the reason for reduced attacks---.

 

[araz]

The number of 120 Vipers is so magical and holds a whole different state of strategic game in itself. If, I say again if this come to the reality, the same is going to be the one giant leap of PAF transition which is being awaited since years with Vipers & JF-17 armed to teeth with AESA. Almost 300 advanced/AESA/4.5 + Gen birds covering Pakistan Airspace...a heavenly match of geography and modernized fleet size. We never had the opportunity like the moment and hopefully, the things will go ahead as planned and wished.

May ALLAH us with everything. Ameen.



For the time being, we can assume that Afghanistan Peace deal is done & final. Yes, they have suffered a long war and not just for Afghanistan but peace is a must for the whole region. Pakistan wouldn't jump for the peace talks management if US ambition was to play otherwise. We can expect lot of sabotage attempts & in-fact hostiles wouldn't let this go that easily though, we have been through a lot of rough times and have gained enough experience/lessons as well. Afghanistan has been used by the same hostile elements against Pakistan so any sabotage attempt would be far less harming as compare to anti-Pakistan terrorists breeding ground in neighborhood. Furthermore, the deal is must for Trump legacy & US itself so the risk of sabotage exists very less. Russia & China wouldn't wish any unrest in Afghanistan & US want a peaceful exit and Pakistan been saying the same thing since years hence, major powers are on board in this.

What LM or US in whole offers in lieu of this Peace Talks efforts; is already seen by India or might realize later but the way I see & observe; any strategic offer wouldn't imbalance the region. India use to apply the tactics of hue & cry to seek attention or to weaken Pakistan from inside for strategical gains but it is noted that India is on Defence Shopping like a madman. Rafale are coming and that is the major imbalance in the region if PAF doesn't have much to defend so argument for the Vipers is strong from this point of view as well. As I said, it is a God sent opportunity and one will never miss it.

I hate to throw a spanner in the works. I think we have no reason to disbelieve @Khafee, however the news is a single man's account and the finances and other nitty gritties will need to be sorted out. The former are a huge challange to us at this point.
I dont think we will have upgrade of radar and other equipment fleet wide as the cost will shoot through the roof. I still think a better approach might be to get some new 16s and if possible older block 32/42s and upgrade those as well as our newer 52s to V standard. The radars from 52s could go down to the ADF fighters. If structural upgrade is available for A&Bs it should be strongly considered although when this occurs needs to be considered. For Example if we have 2000 hours on a plane will a structural upgrade allow us to extend it to 6000 hrs or only 4000hrs. So do we waste money by asking for structural upgrade earlier?
It maybe a more prudent approach. We do not want fleet wide upgarde barring structural one as most of our fleet of A&Bs is getting upto 40 years old. However the OCUs have a lot of aur frame life left on them.
A

 

[Falcon26]

Mods please lock this thread till we see any corroborating evidence.

 

[Trango Towers]

Will the deal include


No blocking of spares

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Will the deal include


No blocking of spares

Nope! What we must learn as a nation is to play both sides of the game. We are not China nor are we India. We need to learn our position in the committee of nations and know where we stand. Essentially do a SWOT analysis...and take it from there.

What we aspire to be, what we are and what we can achieve, all have Deltas in between....Learning to live with biggest bully and the new kid on the block is an art that needs to be quickly learned.

Supply of essentials armaments and hardware from USA in the near future will basically depend upon two major points, our usefulness to US policy initiatives/goals in this region and our finances. Both points are interlinked.

If they require something from us in the region, then we have the choice to either deliver, or not deliver. In the latter case, we need to navigate carefully and use diplomacy and refrain from "Jazbaati" Rhetoric. Essentially don't make it into a zero sum game. As both delivery and non delivery on US objectives have consequences for us.

So tactful diplomacy, do the bare minimum, chose sides carefully and in line with our national and strategic interest is the need of the hour. Brotherly relations should not dictate our stance but our continued existence as a nation should be our priority.

 

[HRK]

For the time being, we can assume that Afghanistan Peace deal is done & final.

only two main things are left one is
- Official withdrawal time table of US forces from Afghanistan which as per reports will be agreed in next meeting in Doha this month

- Other is the new all inclusive political setup for Afghanistan to which Taliban in principle has agreed but the modalities in this regards are still not agreed (or discussed), therefore visit of Taliban delegation to Pakistan after this Eid is most important in relation to this development

 

[Path-Finder]

Interesting, looks like India is upset with LM.

https://theprint.in/opinion/f-16-ne...-lockheed-martin-messed-it-up-so-much/269699/

this may be playing into narrative LM may be pushing to get sales elsewhere.

I started reading and realised it nothing more than the usual india whinging and blame diplomacy. lockheed messed up fits perfectly into known indian psyche.

 

[Khafee]

I hate to throw a spanner in the works. I think we have no reason to disbelieve @Khafee, however the news is a single man's account and the finances and other nitty gritties will need to be sorted out. The former are a huge challange to us at this point.
I dont think we will have upgrade of radar and other equipment fleet wide as the cost will shoot through the roof. I still think a better approach might be to get some new 16s and if possible older block 32/42s and upgrade those as well as our newer 52s to V standard. The radars from 52s could go down to the ADF fighters. If structural upgrade is available for A&Bs it should be strongly considered although when this occurs needs to be considered. For Example if we have 2000 hours on a plane will a structural upgrade allow us to extend it to 6000 hrs or only 4000hrs. So do we waste money by asking for structural upgrade earlier?
It maybe a more prudent approach. We do not want fleet wide upgarde barring structural one as most of our fleet of A&Bs is getting upto 40 years old. However the OCUs have a lot of aur frame life left on them.
A

Finances - Sorted out. One whose brothers stand with him, is not an orphan.
#Only India is Isolated

Nitty Gritty - Kindly elaborate.

SLEP can do wonders btw.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Finances - Sorted out. One whose brothers stand with him, is not an orphan.
#Only India is Isolated

Nitty Gritty - Kindly elaborate.

SLEP can do wonders btw.

Can you elaborate on the "Brothers" and who are they?

 

[Maxpane]

@Khafee sir is there any plan for the production plant of f 16?

 

[Rank]

Get f16s with Air refuelers and AWACS would be a great enhancement