PAF F16-Blk70 possibly coming - TO BE CONFIRMED

[Khafee]

That is entirely incorrect. Please dont just say things for the sake of it.
The USMC even decided not to upgrade their existing AH-1Ws and opted just for newly built AH-1Zs as the cost of the upgrades was almost exactly the same as just buying newly built Cobras.
Best course of action would be just to upgrade the existing AH-1Fs

Upgraded Old Cobra Gunships Offer Big Capabilities Without The Price Tag

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...-offer-big-capabilities-without-the-price-tag

 

[GriffinsRule]

Upgraded Old Cobra Gunships Offer Big Capabilities Without The Price Tag

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...-offer-big-capabilities-without-the-price-tag

Eaxactly, those are AH-1Fs cobras being upgraded, not AH-1Ws so agrees with what I said.

 

[New World]

And Mods are nowhere to be found.

Mods act like backbenchers, not interested in activities of ongoing class..

If Khafee leaks are true then we can say good bye to ATAK.... Americans will probably offer us store airframes to make sure we back away from Turkish purchase. There is no one to blame for this than the Turkish President and his policies . They are suicidal to say the least for his own defence industry. We can easily save 1.5 billion dollars and get upgraded super cobras which will more than match any capability from the Turkish copter.

ATAK deal is not going be scrapped, basically PA is not going to relay on single country for attack helicopters.

 

[ziaulislam]

Mods act like backbenchers, not interested in activities of ongoing class..



ATAK deal is not going be scrapped, basically PA is not going to relay on single country for attack helicopters.

really depends, logically for poor country like Pakistan it should be scrapped, the money diverted to PAF..
dont know why should we have so many gunships in low intensity war..
better use that money for MRAPs for army and drones for survillance

 

[Maxpane]

See when idiots like #dehati aurat's supporter, and giant idiot show up and start talking crap. The motivation goes away. And Mods are nowhere to be found.

h

See when idiots like #dehati aurat's supporter, and giant idiot show up and start talking crap. The motivation goes away. And Mods are nowhere to be found.

sir just continue your leaks. Enemies will burn down in hate without using single bullet. @Khafee leaks 4 and haters will going mad .

 

[Humble Analyst]

really depends, logically for poor country like Pakistan it should be scrapped, the money diverted to PAF..
dont know why should we have so many gunships in low intensity war..
better use that money for MRAPs for army and drones for survillance

Gunships are much needed especially in low intensity wars. Pak army’s casualties would be significantly lower in the operations conducted in North South Waziristan if they had appropriate amount of gunship support. I am disappointed with the post but then everybody is free to give his opinion.
The bonus is helis can be deployed in anti armor role and Airforce can be used for other missions instead of tactical support and anti armor role. Army can coordinate better if it is using its own helis in anti armor role instead of coordinating with Air Force. I do believe Air Force needs more aircraft but gunships are equally important and more so in low intensity warfare.

 

[mingle]

h

sir just continue your leaks. Enemies will burn down in hate without using single bullet. @Khafee leaks 4 and haters will going mad .

Go @Khafee Go bring @Khafee leaks 4

 

[MystryMan]

The issue with ATAK T-129 is that it uses the same engine as the AH-1Z hence it was a very wise purchase at that time. ATAK offered PAC to start its own helicopter industry hence initially only 30 were ordered with a hope of having an other 60-70 that would have been make in PAC. Also it was hoped that PAC could find other orders over the years and that would make it easier to upgrade and continue with the production line. A very cost effective product could have been achieved.

Still ATAK T129 BlockII the heavier version could be preferred over the Z-10 provided Turkey is able to produce a trustable engine locally. Remember that India has purchased Apache which need to be countered.

The blunder with Turkey is that they have an impulsive President. Otherwise the Turkish F-35's would have been delivered.
IMO Pakistan should play a waiting game for the time in regards to Turkish Products.

However with the present situation USA is not going to allow any other country to sell their arms rather would go to great lengths in providing their own technology. This is why Trump is trying to find ways in which US arms can be sold which are produced mostly in USA not abroad. Lockheed Martin has tried its level best to provide solution to its failed F-35 project but the DOD wants to sustain this project as it has poured too much of the public funds and they can not reopen production of F22 again.

If India would have continued with the T-50 project with Russia then PAF would have been getting the F-35 by now.

IMO Pakistan should try to acquire engine manufacturing capability in regards to both F-16 and AH-1Z so that PAF can have expertise and self reliance.
PAF should also now consider the T-50FA as first choice for LIFT along with its GE-404 engine manufacturing setup.


Please read the above reply..


Please read my above reply..

I agree with your Turk president part. I think he still angry on the coup attempt of 2016.
KAI T/FA-50 is a very good option.IIRC GE-F404 was initially an option for JF-17 as well, so if we can get it with RD-93 or instead make a Blk (50+ planes) of JF-17 which covers LIFT and a dedicated strike will be more beneficial instead of just buying off the shelf.

Gunships are much needed in low intensity wars especially. Pak army’s casualties would be significantly lower in the operations conducted in North South Waziristan if they had appropriate amount of gunship support. I am disappointed with the post but then everybody is free to give his opinion.
The bonus is helis can be deployed in anti armor role and Airforce can be used in other missions instead of tactical support and anti armor role. Army can coordinate better if it is using its own helis in anti armor role instead of coordinating with Air Force. I do believe Air Force needs more aircraft but gunships are equally import and more do in low intensity warfare.

All major Ops are over now. So drones/UCAV and Hinds might be enough for job on western border.
What my understanding is that attack heli can be deployed effectively by PA when PAF has achieved air superiority.

 

[Humble Analyst]

I agree with your Turk president part. I think he still angry on the coup attempt of 2016.
KAI T/FA-50 is a very good option.IIRC GE-F404 was initially an option for JF-17 as well, so if we can get it with RD-93 or instead make a Blk (50+ planes) of JF-17 which covers LIFT and a dedicated strike will be more beneficial instead of just buying off the shelf.


All major Ops are over now. So drones/UCAV and Hinds might be enough for job on western border.
What my understanding is that attack heli can be deployed effectively by PA when PAF has achieved air superiority.

But if we think that we can have tea break and no more incursions will happen on the Western border then we maybe surprised.
We will always need more Helos than we have.
If air superiority is denied even gunships can be used effectively in anti armor role providing Air Force opportunity to pursue other critical missions.

 

[Flight of falcon]

But if we think that we can have tea break and no more incursions will happen on the Western border then we maybe surprised.
We will always need more Helos than we have.
If air superiority is denied even gunships can be used effectively in anti armor role providing Air Force opportunity to pursue other critical missions.

Pakistan is hoping that Trump will visit Pakistan to sign Afghan peace accord in September. That will be an amazing moment of success for Pakistan.

 

[Armchair]

The OH-58D bought second hand from the US could also play a very useful role. They are small, light and armed. A scout helicopter that can fight back a bit. Would complement and get the best use out of the Cobras.

But if we think that we can have tea break and no more incursions will happen on the Western border then we maybe surprised.
We will always need more Helos than we have.
If air superiority is denied even gunships can be used effectively in anti armor role providing Air Force opportunity to pursue other critical missions.

Helicopters being used in contested airspace is actually an urban legend. Helicopters are slow and have giant blades easily spotted by modern fighter radars. They are a turkey shoot for any fighter aircraft. Faster low flying CAS aircraft have always been the best bet in a heavily contested airspace.

 

[mingle]

Upgraded Old Cobra Gunships Offer Big Capabilities Without The Price Tag

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...-offer-big-capabilities-without-the-price-tag

@Khafee Usman Shabbir on other PDF said about yr ago that Army looking to upgrade our current cobras fleet according to Him engine is not issue Army has very good workshop for engines but upgrades he said Turkish not sure now.

 

[Humble Analyst]

The OH-58D bought second hand from the US could also play a very useful role. They are small, light and armed. A scout helicopter that can fight back a bit. Would complement and get the best use out of the Cobras.



Helicopters being used in contested airspace is actually an urban legend. Helicopters are slow and have giant blades easily spotted by modern fighter radars. They are a turkey shoot for any fighter aircraft. Faster low flying CAS aircraft have always been the best bet in a heavily contested airspace.

You said it in heavy contested air space.
Why the world keeps manufacturing them?
We do need for anti insurgency war for supporting and softening the targets.
If enemy armor is advancing faster than the defense formation gunships can buy precious time until anti armor units can close in.

 

[Armchair]

You said it in heavy contested air space.
Why the world keeps manufacturing them?
We do need for anti insurgency war for supporting and softening the targets.
If enemy armor is advancing faster than the defense formation gunships can buy precious time until anti armor units can close in.

They are not manufactured for fighting heavily contested airspace. The West uses them after attaining air superiority. Russia relies on Su-25s if they have to go into contested airspace and uses their armed choppers for COIN as we saw in the 1980s in Afghanistan.

 

[Humble Analyst]

They are not manufactured for fighting heavily contested airspace. The West uses them after attaining air superiority. Russia relies on Su-25s if they have to go into contested airspace and uses their armed choppers for COIN as we saw in the 1980s in Afghanistan.

Where did I say that they are used in beavily contested airspace sir.
You stop the advance when enemy armor is advancing in your territory and if your territory has heavily contested air space then denial of air superiority has failed. So in this case you have bigger problems.
The primary use is anti insurgency operations and secondary anti armor/tactical support.

The OH-58D bought second hand from the US could also play a very useful role. They are small, light and armed. A scout helicopter that can fight back a bit. Would complement and get the best use out of the Cobras.



Helicopters being used in contested airspace is actually an urban legend. Helicopters are slow and have giant blades easily spotted by modern fighter radars. They are a turkey shoot for any fighter aircraft. Faster low flying CAS aircraft have always been the best bet in a heavily contested airspace.

And USSR found out that Hinds were big and easy target. If they had sleek gunships it would have helped so much more.