PAF Base Badhaber attack: Eight attackers appear to be ‘foreign nationals’

[jaibi]

@Indus Falcon @Daneshmand

One point to consider in this exchange that I would like to add is that the distribution of militancy is not normal. That means of all the pool of potential militants not all people of the general population of the affected area are equally likely to turn up as terrorists.

This is related to a concept called subalternation in post-colonial philosophy (not theoretical but practical, examining the social forces the former colonial world is under).

Under this concept you see that the society is divided into two main groups: the central and the peripheral (I'm over-simplfying here)

The Central: is the one that is given the most sociological prestige and the one most likely to reap the benefits of the social arrangements, provided some conditions are fulfilled. In Pakistan, you could say that a Sunni Punjabi from the Urban background is representing this spec: they are more likely to land prestigious jobs, move further in the social ladder and so forth.

The Periphery: All other groups but the central one but they aren't a single entity but more like a spectrum: one group is closer to the central than the rest thus, being deeper in the periphery. The deeper you are there the more lesser likelier you are to reap the rewards of the social order. Here we can say, that for example the latinos in the US or the ethnic uzbeks in Russia are in the periphery but let's take the US: the Asians are nearer to the centre than the African Americans. Of course, exceptions are always there but this is related to the sociological and thus large scale forces and the concepts are complexer than what I am able to explain.

So anyways, in the subalternation of the social groups leads to a separate identity and certain mix of factors can make one peripheral group more prone to extremist tendencies than others. For example, you'd rarely find a Sindhi suicide bomber eventhough the outreach is still there. Why is this so? Because certain groups further divided by caste/tribes and ethic lines see themselves in a way that enables them to overcome the psychological mechanisms in place to save dehumanisation of the "other" but not others. This is why if you read the history of the Afghani Taliban you'd see that they too were composed out of the subalterned section of the Afghan society, not all were likely and nor did they join them.

All of this can enable certain areas/norms to over-represent in a militant/combatant sample. Just something interesting I found in my studies of the phenomena.

This is true and sadly they rate higher for religosity and are more likely to delegate religious obligations to a spiritual leader.

Hi,

I believe that I may have a little more information than any written material that most of the guys have over here-----. Daneshmand is correct.

As I have stated many a times----my father was a doctor in railway service---a divisional medical officer---during his monthly tours---he worked in backward areas many a times---Punjab----Sindh---baluchistan. My uncle--older cousin of my father was a doctor as well---he worked as a DHO and MS in Dera Ghazi Khan area in the 70's and 80's----.

I remember them telling us---that many a poor from interior Baluchistan and Sindh and Punjab and frontier did not know the KALIMAH ---neither the first nor the second----totally illiterate about religion.

So many of them were not circumcised either---because they had no resource---so much poverty. Circumcision is not a Litmus for being a muslim in the poor areas of Pakistan.

 

[MastanKhan]

@Indus Falcon @Daneshmand

One point to consider in this exchange that I would like to add is that the distribution of militancy is not normal. That means of all the pool of potential militants not all people of the general population of the affected area are equally likely to turn up as terrorists.

This is related to a concept called subalternation in post-colonial philosophy (not theoretical but practical, examining the social forces the former colonial world is under).

Under this concept you see that the society is divided into two main groups: the central and the peripheral (I'm over-simplfying here)

The Central: is the one that is given the most sociological prestige and the one most likely to reap the benefits of the social arrangements, provided some conditions are fulfilled. In Pakistan, you could say that a Sunni Punjabi from the Urban background is representing this spec: they are more likely to land prestigious jobs, move further in the social ladder and so forth.

The Periphery: All other groups but the central one but they aren't a single entity but more like a spectrum: one group is closer to the central than the rest thus, being deeper in the periphery. The deeper you are there the more lesser likelier you are to reap the rewards of the social order. Here we can say, that for example the latinos in the US or the ethnic uzbeks in Russia are in the periphery but let's take the US: the Asians are nearer to the centre than the African Americans. Of course, exceptions are always there but this is related to the sociological and thus large scale forces and the concepts are complexer than what I am able to explain.

So anyways, in the subalternation of the social groups leads to a separate identity and certain mix of factors can make one peripheral group more prone to extremist tendencies than others. For example, you'd rarely find a Sindhi suicide bomber eventhough the outreach is still there. Why is this so? Because certain groups further divided by caste/tribes and ethic lines see themselves in a way that enables them to overcome the psychological mechanisms in place to save dehumanisation of the "other" but not others. This is why if you read the history of the Afghani Taliban you'd see that they too were composed out of the subalterned section of the Afghan society, not all were likely and nor did they join them.

All of this can enable certain areas/norms to over-represent in a militant/combatant sample. Just something interesting I found in my studies of the phenomena.

This is true and sadly they rate higher for religosity and are more likely to delegate religious obligations to a spiritual leader.

Hi,

That is a very interesting information. As I am not a psychiatrist or a psychologist---so my comments won't be technical---. But it is from my exposure to certain groups of people while travelling with my father when he had to go out on mandatory 10 days a months tours out of station---either in interior Baluchistan---Sindh or Punjab---.

My experience is that Pashtuns and Siraiki people may be more prone to suicide bombings---. It is their personalities---it is something in their psyches---it is something in their culture that makes them more submissive to the mullah---they are susceptible to the idea of suicide bombings----their personalities are more fatalistic in nature.

Other than that---I say with confidence---that once a person gets caught up in the euphoria of the induction for a candidacy of a suicide bomber---then the induction of drugs and religious lectures, mind control and VOICE HYPNOTISM---there is no sane way out for the one who has gotten entangled into this web.

As much as recruiting and training of suicide bombing is an extremely sophisticated business---so is the business of recruiting those to attack the military installations---which by itself is a suicide in the making----.

The most important question over here is that----who are these trainers----who are these recruiters---who are these manipulators---what qualifications, capabilities and training do these people have to manipulate these young men to do these horrible and horrendous crimes without a second thought in their minds---without any consideration to their person----that they can just simply go out---extremely well trained---in an extremely professional manner---with well trained and well orchestrated moves---they ingress into the targeted area and then lay it all down to last man last breath---no consideration for their young lives and no value to living----.

 

[jaibi]

You've hit on some very good points, @MastanKhan , however, at the risk of stereotyping which is usually not sociologically justified subalternation explains why even amongst large groups like Punjabis Pakhtuns this is so that some tribes/castes would be more prone to extremism while others won't. Mis-education, propoganda, economics and all these factors do hold this melting pot together but it's not really that simple. I'd love to study it more deeply and empirically before making any conjecture that may misguide.

 

[OTTOMAN]

In Pakistan 99.9% of Sunnis practice circumcision. Do carry on with your ..............


BTW the Iranian agent recently caught in Karachi is singing like a canary!!!

When you look at objective less terrorism of Islamic states it clearly hints at hate crime. There is no agenda of terrorism but HATE against Pakistan and its allies. In Pakistan we alll know about this hateful tribe, these days the potray them self as liberls and Arab fighters. You learn fully about there animosity against Pakistan, when you see them spiting poison about Pakiatan in US, AUSTRALIA UK.

 

[MastanKhan]

You've hit on some very good points, @MastanKhan , however, at the risk of stereotyping which is usually not sociologically justified subalternation explains why even amongst large groups like Punjabis Pakhtuns this is so that some tribes/castes would be more prone to extremism while others won't. Mis-education, propoganda, economics and all these factors do hold this melting pot together but it's not really that simple. I'd love to study it more deeply and empirically before making any conjecture that may misguide.

Hi,

When it comes to it---you say " damned if you do it and damned if you don't " ie---racial profiling---stereotyping.

But here is a very interesting phenomenon---most of these warring tribesmen---when they come to the U S----they become a different breed of people----more into economy and wellbeing rather than fighting and killing.

So---to me---it looks like that for most people it is the economical factors. Economical issues make you do wild things---.

One of them being getting entrapped into the web of fanatics---but then you already have an inkling towards that cause---that mindset and that itch was already there.

Have you dealt with Voice Hypnotism---and if you mix it with drugs---smooth and subtle kind of drugs---you can make a man do whatever you want to---.

The thing is that it is easier to do it when they are willing----. They are not fighting you to be indoctrinated why what you are teaching them----so---at the time of conflict---the sense of reasoning will not come into question---because it was justified from the beginning---they already believed in what was being said---the trainer already confirmed what they wanted to hear----and now it is all up to the trainer to prepare the 'lamb' for the slaughter---do I make sense.

 

[I.R.A]

Hi,

When it comes to it---you say " damned if you do it and damned if you don't " ie---racial profiling---stereotyping.

But here is a very interesting phenomenon---most of these warring tribesmen---when they come to the U S----they become a different breed of people----more into economy and wellbeing rather than fighting and killing.

So---to me---it looks like that for most people it is the economical factors. Economical issues make you do wild things---.

One of them being getting entrapped into the web of fanatics---but then you already have an inkling towards that cause---that mindset and that itch was already there.

So---it is 1977----we have just buried my father---it is the third day after his death----. We are sitting outside of my grandfathers house and the mosque is across the street. People are coming and some are talking to me. And now here is the Masjid Imam and he has with him a good looking man in his 30 with a beard. He introduces me to him as an Egyptian brother here for the cause.

The Egyptian starts to talk to me---and even as I say no----he does not stop---and keeps going on---I tel him that I have 3 younger sisters to look after and a widow mother---he cares less and keeps on harping---pretty soon he has me convinced and makes me promise to go with him for the cause---and I am ready and eager---family is forgotten---.

I come into the house and tell my mother that I want to leave----she says what where----I tell her about the cause---I say yes---she gives me a piece of her mind---a verbal thrashing---a verbal whip lashing----rips me apart as only she can----I go sit down in the corner with my tail between my legs.

Not every young man is fortunate enough like I was that day---not everyone has a strong willed mother that I have---. And as I mentioned before----once you step inside their door----it is just like a miracle to come out without being scathed by the fires----.

Have you read about Voice Hypnotism---and if you mix it with drugs---smooth and subtle kind of drugs---you can make a man do whatever you want to---.

The thing is that it is easier to do it when they are willing----. They are not fighting you to be indoctrinated why what you are teaching them----so---at the time of conflict---the sense of reasoning will not come into question---because it was justified from the beginning---they already believed in what was being said---the trainer already confirmed what they wanted to hear----and now it is all up to the trainer to prepare the 'lamb' for the slaughter---do I make sense.

Sir with all respect and my prayers for your late father (May ALLAH bless him and reward him), how you would have reacted if he had been murdered or killed and you were left alone and frustrated that state has not helped you in bringing culprits to justice? Most probably you would want to kill them yourself without caring if you loose your own life in this process. This is another angle that we don't consider and try to address. People can live without food, without economic prosperity but most people won't give a damn when they have to lift coffins of their beloved ones, killed, maimed and nobody (read as absence of state) is there to console them and assure them that justice will be done. For example we can notice the difference between the ops have been conducted in Karachi and in FATA or remote areas, the resources used, the way these ops were conducted is very different whereas miscreants and terrorists on both sides are equally dangerous and criminal people who killed thousands of innocents for their own motives and interests.

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir with all respect and my prayers for your late father (May ALLAH bless him and reward him), how you would have reacted if he had been murdered or killed and you were left alone and frustrated that state has not helped you in bringing culprits to justice? Most probably you would want to kill them yourself without caring if you loose your own life in this process. This is another angle that we don't consider and try to address. People can live without food, without economic prosperity but most people won't give a damn when they have to lift coffins of their beloved ones, killed, maimed and nobody (read as absence of state) is there to console them and assure them that justice will be done. For example we can notice the difference between the ops have been conducted in Karachi and in FATA or remote areas, the resources used, the way these ops were conducted is very different whereas miscreants and terrorists on both sides are equally dangerous and criminal people who killed thousands of innocents for their own motives and interests.

Hi,

Well---it is very simple---the state will come and kill me and my sisters and mother as well if I retaliated against the state and rest of the family as well.

The state has to speak the language that a person understands.

By the way----your post is strange----sort of justifying the actions of terrorists against the state!

 

[Indus Falcon]

Hi,

Well---it is very simple---the state will come and kill me and my sisters and mother as well if I retaliated against the state and rest of the family as well.

The state has to speak the language that a person understands.

By the way----your post is strange----sort of justifying the actions of terrorists against the state!

I could be wrong, but I think what he is trying to say is "What drives a person, to become an outlaw"

 

[Daneshmand]

@Indus Falcon @Daneshmand

One point to consider in this exchange that I would like to add is that the distribution of militancy is not normal. That means of all the pool of potential militants not all people of the general population of the affected area are equally likely to turn up as terrorists.

This is related to a concept called subalternation in post-colonial philosophy (not theoretical but practical, examining the social forces the former colonial world is under).

Under this concept you see that the society is divided into two main groups: the central and the peripheral (I'm over-simplfying here)

The Central: is the one that is given the most sociological prestige and the one most likely to reap the benefits of the social arrangements, provided some conditions are fulfilled. In Pakistan, you could say that a Sunni Punjabi from the Urban background is representing this spec: they are more likely to land prestigious jobs, move further in the social ladder and so forth.

The Periphery: All other groups but the central one but they aren't a single entity but more like a spectrum: one group is closer to the central than the rest thus, being deeper in the periphery. The deeper you are there the more lesser likelier you are to reap the rewards of the social order. Here we can say, that for example the latinos in the US or the ethnic uzbeks in Russia are in the periphery but let's take the US: the Asians are nearer to the centre than the African Americans. Of course, exceptions are always there but this is related to the sociological and thus large scale forces and the concepts are complexer than what I am able to explain.

So anyways, in the subalternation of the social groups leads to a separate identity and certain mix of factors can make one peripheral group more prone to extremist tendencies than others. For example, you'd rarely find a Sindhi suicide bomber eventhough the outreach is still there. Why is this so? Because certain groups further divided by caste/tribes and ethic lines see themselves in a way that enables them to overcome the psychological mechanisms in place to save dehumanisation of the "other" but not others. This is why if you read the history of the Afghani Taliban you'd see that they too were composed out of the subalterned section of the Afghan society, not all were likely and nor did they join them.

All of this can enable certain areas/norms to over-represent in a militant/combatant sample. Just something interesting I found in my studies of the phenomena.

This is true and sadly they rate higher for religosity and are more likely to delegate religious obligations to a spiritual leader.

I had to think about what you had written above and then come back to it. So here is my take:

You are right in description of the phenomenon. But this does not explain the reason for existence of what we are seeing today, just rather explains its logical probability. Not its cause.

In the case of an individual of a tribe or linguistic group as mentioned above in being more pre-disposed at blowing himself up, I can also make the observation that the said group has a culture in which risk taking is promoted and is seen as desirable. That is a risk that brings reward is tolerated with more valor compared to other groups and tribes in the said stratum. If I am right then such a tribe must also be choosing risky professions more than other tribes eg more of the people from this tribe will be pilots, drivers, bodyguards, financial investors, drug smugglers and soldiers. Any number of negative or positive risky jobs. The emphasis here is on the risky nature of the job not on the jobs themselves.

That a cultural trait originating from upbringing of the children in that tribe by emphasizing certain values such as valor, risk taking or respect for religion, then creates certain strata in society with characteristics such as taking up risky jobs or blowing himself up can therefore be explained.

So the question here that arises is why he blew himself up instead of applying himself to a useful risky job? What caused him to blow himself up? What motivated that person instead of serving humans, choosing to blow them up? Instead of using his risk taking characteristic arising from his valor in doing something heroic for other humans, he chose to blow other humans up as a villain?

I think the reason for this is because of existence and promotion of the ideology of Takfir. This ideology then allows the risk taker elements in society to go and create havoc and still expect to be rewarded by God himself. It would then be very difficult to defeat such elements with any certainty even when applying massive force with huge collateral damage in spheres of economy or human lives. Since practically you will be fighting against a force which is ready to take the ultimate risk (the risk of dying) for a reward that is out of this worldly (therefore not destroy-able). To counter such a menace, you can not threaten it to death, neither you can take away its reward system.

That is why, I have been saying on this forum that in addition to physical elimination of such zombies, their ideology must be taken away from them. That without ideologically confronting these elements, there is no hope in winning this war. That the ideology of Takfir has to be dealt with as Nazism was dealt with in Post War Germany. It must be ridiculed, it must be minimized, it must be countered religiously, it must be sidelined and its adherents made into lepers, avoided, secluded and bullied. Every where from the mosque to forums.

Only then there will be any chance for winning this intra-Islam struggle. Bringing up such ridiculous ideas such as lack of circumcision or association with this cult or that cave, will not help at all. In fact such tactics will be counter productive by redirecting the propaganda machine of a state away from countering the ideology of the enemy and instead waste the precious media and propaganda resources on things which will have no impact on the enemy at all.

 

[MastanKhan]

I could be wrong, but I think what he is trying to say is "What drives a person, to become an outlaw"

Hi,

I guess we all know by now how that happens---ie what drives a person. And I will say that it is their problem now. It is not the problem of the state anymore----. They already know what happens if you retaliate against the state---if you give refuge to the terrorists---.

Pashtunwali is no more---we are citizens of a nation state----all loyalties are to the state---.

I will only say that if you bear arms against the state---the state will wipe you off.

I just want to focus my discussion in how to recognize them---how to fight them and how to tackle them.

I had to think about what you had written above and then come back to it. So here is my take:

You are right in description of the phenomenon. But this does not explain the reason for existence of what we are seeing today, just rather explains its logical probability. Not its cause.

In the case of an individual of a tribe or linguistic group as mentioned above in being more pre-disposed at blowing himself up, I can also make the observation that the said group has a culture in which risk taking is promoted and is seen as desirable. That is a risk that brings reward is tolerated with more valor compared to other groups and tribes in the said stratum. If I am right then such a tribe must also be choosing risky professions more than other tribes eg more of the people from this tribe will be pilots, drivers, bodyguards, financial investors, drug smugglers and soldiers. Any number of negative or positive risky jobs. The emphasis here is on the risky nature of the job not on the jobs themselves.

That a cultural trait originating from upbringing of the children in that tribe by emphasizing certain values such as valor, risk taking or respect for religion, then creates certain strata in society with characteristics such as taking up risky jobs or blowing himself up can therefore be explained.
.

Hi,

That will hold true for Pashtun tribes in Pakistan amongst others---. But then there are Punjabi terrorists as well----from the Siraiki belt----from south Punjab---very kind---low key docile people---with a very sweet language---a lot of madrassah students from this area---poverty and lack of education----radical and fundamental maulvis.

See---here is my experience with this culture---you don't have to be venom spewing radical----you just need to have the urge and the desire---and you think that what you are doing is right----.

From there---the Trainer will take over---The Ustaad will take control and manipulate you and manage you in the ways that YOU WANT TO BE MANIPULATED---the Ustaad will know which key to turn----. Training and lectures and drugs---there is no way out----.

Because your conscience is already accepting these things from the beginning----so now that you have been given training---drugs to keep your mind under control---lectures to keep your focus in front of your eyes---an enemy which is recognizable---a promise of eternal heavens and women and boys in the afterlife---you don't need high testosterone levels to become a terrorist----.

 

[I.R.A]

Hi,

Well---it is very simple---the state will come and kill me and my sisters and mother as well if I retaliated against the state and rest of the family as well.

The state has to speak the language that a person understands.

By the way----your post is strange----sort of justifying the actions of terrorists against the state!

Sir I am not justifying any terror act here, I am trying to highlight weakness of state (Excluding COAS), state is responsible for each and every citizen of Pakistan. I don't see state being active to address grievances and root causes of this mess we are in. Killing is never a permanent solution, there needs to be proactive involvement of state in addressing the core causes and issues of ordinary Pakistanis, and injustice is one of them. Please do refer me to source which can educate me about our ministers and PM visiting FATA and addressing the locals? How much media time do they get to address their issues compared to a donkey sitting in UK and making irritating noises? It is as simple as this absence of justice will always motivate people to go to extremes.

 

[Daneshmand]

Hi,

I guess we all know by now how that happens---ie what drives a person. And I will say that it is their problem now. It is not the problem of the state anymore----. They already know what happens if you retaliate against the state---if you give refuge to the terrorists---.

Pashtunwali is no more---we are citizens of a nation state----all loyalties are to the state---.

I will only say that if you bear arms against the state---the state will wipe you off.

I just want to focus my discussion in how to recognize them---how to fight them and how to tackle them.



Hi,

That will hold true for Pashtun tribes in Pakistan amongst others---. But then there are Punjabi terrorists as well----from the Siraiki belt----from south Punjab---very kind---low key docile people---with a very sweet language---a lot of madrassah students from this area---poverty and lack of education----radical and fundamental maulvis.

See---here is my experience with this culture---you don't have to be venom spewing radical----you just need to have the urge and the desire---and you think that what you are doing is right----.

From there---the Trainer will take over---The Ustaad will take control and manipulate you and manage you in the ways that YOU WANT TO BE MANIPULATED---the Ustaad will know which key to turn----. Training and lectures and drugs---there is no way out----.

Because your conscience is already accepting these things from the beginning----so now that you have been given training---drugs to keep your mind under control---lectures to keep your focus in front of your eyes---an enemy which is recognizable---a promise of eternal heavens and women and boys in the afterlife---you don't need high testosterone levels to become a terrorist----.

If you read the post by @jaibi to which I replied, you will find your answer. That it is not necessary the zombies be ONLY from a certain tribe. They can be from any. But the probability of being from a pre-disposed tribe is greater because of the various factors such as one I explained.

And I am not really interested in the tactics or what happens in zombie training class or what their "Ostad" is teaching, whether he beats them or loves them. What I am interested in is the big why. No the small how.

As for the lack of education and poverty, I do not consider these factors at all. When Pakistan was less educated and poorer in 1950's, these issues did not even exist. How you are going to explain this? The fact is, these issues were created when Takfir was promoted as a militant political tool starting in 70's and still continuing.

And you said 'boys in afterlife'. Interesting. Could you please expand on this abit more.

 

[Panther 57]

Sir I am not justifying any terror act here, I am trying to highlight weakness of state (Excluding COAS), state is responsible for each and every citizen of Pakistan. I don't see state being active to address grievances and root causes of this mess we are in. Killing is never a permanent solution, there needs to be proactive involvement of state in addressing the core causes and issues of ordinary Pakistanis, and injustice is one of them. Please do refer me to source which can educate me about our ministers and PM visiting FATA and addressing the locals? How much media time do they get to address their issues compared to a donkey sitting in UK and making irritating noises? It is as simple as this absence of justice will always motivate people to go to extremes.

Injustice is the main cause of resentment in masses. In Pakistan justice is delayed to the extent of crossing the boundaries of injustice. Not absolving political leadership of their responsibilities, there are certain obligations which citizens should also discharge. People from FATA and some part of Balochistan are reluctant to chip in their bit. They just look at the state part, never thought of doing their contribution. They don't pay taxes, electricity bills, etc. Moreover, their leaders want them to keep hating the state, despite being members of legislature and enjoying benefits from state. It has to be an effort from both the sides by developing mutual ownership.

As regard killing of criminals and terrorist is concerned. IMO the crime index has increased to such a high level that the only solution is elimination. judicial system will never take them to justice and there will be a day when a jail break and these criminals will restart their activities with more aggression. Brainwashing done to develop these terrorist is beyond the stage of economical repair. Either they have to realise themselves and surrender or should be eliminated.

 

[I.R.A]

Injustice is the main cause of resentment in masses. In Pakistan justice is delayed to the extent of crossing the boundaries of injustice. Not absolving political leadership of their responsibilities, there are certain obligations which citizens should also discharge. People from FATA and some part of Balochistan are reluctant to chip in their bit. They just look at the state part, never thought of doing their contribution. They don't pay taxes, electricity bills, etc. Moreover, their leaders want them to keep hating the state, despite being members of legislature and enjoying benefits from state. It has to be an effort from both the sides by developing mutual ownership.

Sir don't you think you are expecting too much from a citizen who was never afforded proper education, health facilities and employment opportunities? As if it were them who chose to live under influence of Sardars and Tribal leaders. And talking of taxes in Pakistan............... well in my opinion it is a rent that I pay every month to a corrupt system so just that I and my family can reside in this country, in return for that I never expected anything from state, sorry I pay my own bills, my children education fees, I pay my health and medical charges the state has always failed to provide me security and my basic rights, I have seen the humiliation one goes through for getting a simple FIR registered. Sorry citizen has always been sidelined, his issues were never addressed by state, his honor never protected by state, he has always been left in dark and confused. And then blamed for the ills. And taxes depend on annual income of a person, do you think people of FATA earn that much annually to fall in taxable income slabs?

As regard killing of criminals and terrorist is concerned. IMO the crime index has increased to such a high level that the only solution is elimination. judicial system will never take them to justice and there will be a day when a jail break and these criminals will restart their activities with more aggression. Brainwashing done to develop these terrorist is beyond the stage of economical repair. Either they have to realise themselves and surrender or should be eliminated.

It is never too late, ad hoc and destructive steps will never bring peace. Instead of kicking out the corrupt judiciary and making the lazy a&& lawmakers to work and make effective and applicable laws, you are advocating a solution to kill people in masses without affording them judicial process? I will support this for hardcore mental traitors and heads of these terrorist organisations but at some level we will have to look for the main reason and weakness in our system.

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir I am not justifying any terror act here, I am trying to highlight weakness of state (Excluding COAS), state is responsible for each and every citizen of Pakistan. I don't see state being active to address grievances and root causes of this mess we are in. Killing is never a permanent solution, there needs to be proactive involvement of state in addressing the core causes and issues of ordinary Pakistanis, and injustice is one of them. Please do refer me to source which can educate me about our ministers and PM visiting FATA and addressing the locals? How much media time do they get to address their issues compared to a donkey sitting in UK and making irritating noises? It is as simple as this absence of justice will always motivate people to go to extremes.

Hi,

The only weakness that the state had was caused by its citizens who had their heads up in the sand for 14 years. Killing and exterminating radicals is the only solution for he state---that is what the U S practices on its mainland quite successfully.

It is all about the timing----. Where Pakistan is today---it is not the govt's fault---it is the Pakistani citizens fault----. The state does not need to go and address anyone in Fata or elsewhere---even though it could do a propaganda campaign better---but the bottom line is that the state will bulldoze its way thru----.

Right now---the terrorist activities are carried by those on the pay plan of our neighbor-----those whose families have died---they don't retaliate anymore---or haven't for awhile----. All these guys are paid soldiers wo are programmed to die for a cause----.

The questions that you are asking----you are lurking around dangerous waters---. You be careful----you don't want to be carried out in a different direction by an eddy---unless you want to.

If you read the post by @jaibi to which I replied, you will find your answer. That it is not necessary the zombies be ONLY from a certain tribe. They can be from any. But the probability of being from a pre-disposed tribe is greater because of the various factors such as one I explained.

And I am not really interested in the tactics or what happens in zombie training class or what their "Ostad" is teaching, whether he beats them or loves them. What I am interested in is the big why. No the small how.

As for the lack of education and poverty, I do not consider these factors at all. When Pakistan was less educated and poorer in 1950's, these issues did not even exist. How you are going to explain this? The fact is, these issues were created when Takfir was promoted as a militant political tool starting in 70's and still continuing.

And you said 'boys in afterlife'. Interesting. Could you please expand on this abit more.

Hi,

Actually---the poor in Pakistan are poorer now than in the 1950's----. They could afford more food then than now.


Why they did not switch to terrorism then---because we were not invaded by the brotherhood of islam---the Egyptian terrorist invasion had not landed in Pakistan at that time.
Correct me---I understand that it was Sadaat who is the man bringing these takfiris back to the limelight.

Our current issue is not of takfirist---our current issue has its roots in india----and the radicals on its payroll.