PAF and A-10 Aircraft

[Jango]

Right now I don't think PAF would be wanting to induct another aircaft, or for the next 5-8 years.

JF program, ZDK inductions, the much talked about J-10 program are already keeping PAF's hands full, and the pocket a bit empty, so that's a no no.

It could be useful no doubt for strikes against baddies, but the economics don't work in Pak's favor.

 

[Arsalan]

The A-10 was offered to Pakistan in the 80s and rejected then because we had plenty of money but no insurgency to fight. Now we have an insurgency to fight but we don't have the money for a fuel guzzler like the A-10, not to mention the DU rounds don't exactly come cheap. Another important point to consider is that there is no airfield in FATA that can host an A-10, so if you want a reload or damage control, Peshawar is your best shot. Cobras on the other hand, make good use of fuel, use TOW or Baktar Shikan Missiles and 30mm rounds (plenty of both) and the best part, they can land on a road, field, or even a good given ledge and given a complete reload in 15 minutes by 4 technicians carrying missiles and rounds in a 4x4!

So to sum up, we don't need A-10, they do not fit in. What we need are more attack helicopters and that's it!
Nice analysis sir!

 

[Skull and Bones]

K-8s can be modified for CAS roles if required, with gravity bombs, rockets or cannons.

 

[rockstarIN]

K-8s can be modified for CAS roles if required, with gravity bombs, rockets or cannons.

Unguided rockets and other weapons is risky for today's battlefield. All infentry units will carry manpads today. This will be the last resort for CAS.



How about trying for Apache?

 

[Skull and Bones]

Unguided rockets and other weapons is risky for today's battlefield. All infentry units will carry manpads today. This will be the last resort for CAS.

How about trying for Apache?

For fighting insurgents in Pakistan, that's more than enough. I don't think they have any stinger left with them, and if they have, it won't be active for such long.

 

[mjnaushad]

Unguided rockets and other weapons is risky for today's battlefield. All infentry units will carry manpads today. This will be the last resort for CAS.



How about trying for Apache?

the discussion is actually targeted at battlefield on the western border.

my vote for AH 1Z......

 

[Najam Khan]

The A-10 was offered to Pakistan in the 80s and rejected then because we had plenty of money but no insurgency to fight. Now we have an insurgency to fight but we don't have the money for a fuel guzzler like the A-10, not to mention the DU rounds don't exactly come cheap. Another important point to consider is that there is no airfield in FATA that can host an A-10, so if you want a reload or damage control, Peshawar is your best shot. Cobras on the other hand, make good use of fuel, use TOW or Baktar Shikan Missiles and 30mm rounds (plenty of both) and the best part, they can land on a road, field, or even a good given ledge and given a complete reload in 15 minutes by 4 technicians carrying missiles and rounds in a 4x4!

Thats one great "bang-on-target" post sir

PAF/PA prefer specialist aircraft to perform their specific role, makeshift changes are generally not done. Mi-17s can be modified to carry unguided rocekts/guns and anti-tank rockets like Chinese HJ-10 or even EO/IR systems for counter-insurgency operations. But, they prefered F16s (now Block52s) and cobras, both with hard hitting fire power and great history.

Induction of any new system and taking it into combat without mastering its all capabilities carries a big risk and its understandable that PAF/PA played safe game but I feel they need to do some modifications in exsiting system of army and air force to meet any similar future needs.

Arming Mi-17s, K-8s and training at least one squadron where people come and polish their skills (just like theme of CCS, but only A2G role) can be done in the present budget of these forces. Or PAF can make one squadron with such counter-insurgency role, tasked to train pilots (of both PAF and PA) in such missions.

 

[Sinnerman108]

Thats one great "bang-on-target" post sir

PAF/PA prefer specialist aircraft to perform their specific role, makeshift changes are generally not done. Mi-17s can be modified to carry unguided rocekts/guns and anti-tank rockets like Chinese HJ-10 or even EO/IR systems for counter-insurgency operations. But, they prefered F16s (now Block52s) and cobras, both with hard hitting fire power and great history.

Induction of any new system and taking it into combat without mastering its all capabilities carries a big risk and its understandable that PAF/PA played safe game but I feel they need to do some modifications in exsiting system of army and air force to meet any similar future needs.

Arming Mi-17s, K-8s and training at least one squadron where people come and polish their skills (just like theme of CCS, but only A2G role) can be done in the present budget of these forces. Or PAF can make one squadron with such counter-insurgency role, tasked to train pilots (of both PAF and PA) in such missions.

Two questions come to mind.

1. how does the cost benefit play, with PAF's "specialized air craft for special mission" approach ? ... I am guessing it would be high cost.

2. If PAF really believe in special aircraft for special role, then why stick with multirole aircraft all this time ? Why not have dedicated cadres of Interceptors, superiority fighters, bombers, air support ?

PS: While we think about limited arming of K-8 and Mi-17, How about reviving Ac-130 ?? That would be very effective no ?

 

[Najam Khan]

Two questions come to mind.

1. how does the cost benefit play, with PAF's "specialized air craft for special mission" approach ? ... I am guessing it would be high cost.

2. If PAF really believe in special aircraft for special role, then why stick with multirole aircraft all this time ? Why not have dedicated cadres of Interceptors, superiority fighters, bombers, air support ?

PS: While we think about limited arming of K-8 and Mi-17, How about reviving Ac-130 ?? That would be very effective no ?

1: That goes well if you are sending couple of F16s with EO pods and bombs to conduct recce and strike at same time or gathering Intel for next op. If the outcome of a precision strike is not high value targets then cost of operating in such scenario goes high.

2: I used the term "specialist aircraft" in reference to the fire power and punch. Obviously MR aircraft fits in mission profile for various types. Whether its Recce, air def, air cover etc, buying bombers or dedicate air support aircraft would only help in A2G specific mission not A2A.

3: Arming C130 is possible; That needs two things

1. Permission/assistance of US
2. X number of C-130 available to be spared from their traditional transport role. PAF already is employing enough such aircraft in low-level TA role, they can't afford to spare more.

 

[Manticore]

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...-aircraft-needs-pakistan-army-aviation-4.html

 

[Pakistanisage]

What Pakistan needs these days is something like the A-10 Warthog.

Pakistan should make its own version of A-10.

If it has the technology to make JF-17, it can make a ground support aircraft like A-10.

We should stop buying from the US and produce our own weapons as US is an unreliable supplier.

Besides if we produce a weapon system like that we can export it ot our friends and trade with them.

 

[Safriz]

the discussion is actually targeted at battlefield on the western border.

my vote for AH 1Z......

Unit cost US$27 million
US$31 million (new built)

 

[VCheng]

The A-10 was offered to Pakistan in the 80s and rejected then because we had plenty of money but no insurgency to fight. Now we have an insurgency to fight but we don't have the money for a fuel guzzler like the A-10, not to mention the DU rounds don't exactly come cheap. Another important point to consider is that there is no airfield in FATA that can host an A-10, so if you want a reload or damage control, Peshawar is your best shot. Cobras on the other hand, make good use of fuel, use TOW or Baktar Shikan Missiles and 30mm rounds (plenty of both) and the best part, they can land on a road, field, or even a good given ledge and given a complete reload in 15 minutes by 4 technicians carrying missiles and rounds in a 4x4!

The GAU-8 can fire other types of rounds too, not just DU.

Peshawar is not all that far away from FATA.

A combination of A-10 and Cobras, (or Apaches) can work together quite well.

However, it is very hard to cure the after-effects of short-sighted policies of the past.

Pakistan should make its own version of A-10.

If it has the technology to make JF-17, it can make a ground support aircraft like A-10.

We should stop buying from the US and produce our own weapons as US is an unreliable supplier.

Besides if we produce a weapon system like that we can export it ot our friends and trade with them.

Adapting a JF-17 or a K-8 for CAS roles can certainly be done indigenously.

 

[Sinnerman108]

The GAU-8 can fire other types of rounds too, not just DU.

Peshawar is not all that far away from FATA.

A combination of A-10 and Cobras, (or Apaches) can work together quite well.

However, it is very hard to cure the after-effects of short-sighted policies of the past.



Adapting a JF-17 or a K-8 for CAS roles can certainly be done indigenously.

CAS, usually means slower speed and more stability.
By design the wing profile (straight) of aircraft like A-10 is best suited.

Delta configuration wings are razor thing and are designed to provide speed more than lift. They make up by offering a larger wing area.

 

[Edevelop]

After this was briefly mentioned in the JF-17 thread, i knew a separate thread would be formed.

@Topic:
The U.S has not supplied us a single bullet for the so called 'military aid' and neither delivered those 1980s embargoed F-16s. What brings us now to believe they would give us the A-10s?