What's new

PAF AIRPOWER A FLOAT

Why would India go for F16 IN if they are big developing party in PAKFA?

i just wounder why would they even go for rafale?
why not simply boast su-30,mig29 and LCA(already with much of western systems) instead and wait for PAK-FA. they already have half a dozen types of fighters
unless they dont trust the future of LCA and PAK-fa
 
i just wounder why would they even go for rafale?
why not simply boast su-30,mig29 and LCA(already with much of western systems) instead and wait for PAK-FA. they already have half a dozen types of fighters
unless they dont trust the future of LCA and PAK-fa
AND not too happy with the much touted MKI, I might add!
 
i just wounder why would they even go for rafale?
why not simply boast su-30,mig29 and LCA(already with much of western systems) instead and wait for PAK-FA. they already have half a dozen types of fighters
unless they dont trust the future of LCA and PAK-fa
Because unlike the top-end F-16IN(as compared to Block 52+), it did not fail IAF tests, LOL.
Keeping in mind the result of previous wars---where PAF literally blasted IAF in 65' and shot down way more fighter jets of IAF than losing its own in 71'----comments of American professional pilots on Indian Air Force----and over-all performance of both air forces, Pakistanis don't see IAF as their equal in quality (Professionalism, tactics, pilot training)....May be that's changing with IAF as it becomes more modern.
Could you point out the said comments
 
Because unlike the top-end F-16IN(as compared to Block 52+), it did not fail IAF tests, LOL.

Could you point out the said comments

Chuck Yeager and the Pakistan Air Force

An Excerpt from Yeager,

the Autobiography of General (Retd.) Chuck E. Yeager (USAF)


chuck+yeager+moofy.jpg


When we arrived in Pakistan in 1971, the political situation between the Pakistanis and Indians was really tense over Bangladesh, or East Pakistan, as it was known in those days, and Russia was backing India with tremendous amounts of new airplanes and tanks. The U.S. and China were backing the Pakistanis. My job was military advisor to the Pakistani air force, headed by AirMarshal Rahim Khan, who had been trained in Britain by the Royal Air Force, and was the first Pakistani pilot to exceed the speed of sound. He took me around to their different fighter groups and I met their pilots, who knew me and were really pleased that I was there. They had about five hundred airplanes, more than half of them Sabres and 104 Starfighters, a few B-57 bombers, and about a hundred Chinese MiG-19s. They were really good, aggressive dogfighters and proficient in gunnery and air combat tactics. I was damned impressed. Those guys just lived and breathed flying.

One of my first jobs there was to help them put U.S. Sidewinders on their Chinese MiGs, which were 1.6 Mach twin-engine airplanes that carried three thirty-millimeter canons. Our government furnished them with the rails for Sidewinders. They bought the missiles and all the checkout equipment that went with them, and it was one helluva interesting experience watching their electricians wiring up American missiles on a Chinese MiG. I worked with their squadrons and helped them develop combat tactics.The Chinese MiG was one hundred percent Chinese-built and was made for only one hundred hours of flying before it had to be scrapped - a disposable fighter good for one hundred strikes. In fairness, it was an older airplane in their inventory, and I guess they were just getting rid of them. They delivered spare parts, but it was a tough airplane to work on; the Pakistanis kept it flying for about 130 hours.

War broke out only a couple of months after we had arrived, in late November 1971, when India attacked East Pakistan. The battle lasted only three days before East Pakistan fell. India's intention was to annex East Pakistan and claim it for themselves. But the Pakistanis counter-attacked. Air Marshal Rahim Khan laid a strike on the four closest Indian air fields in the western part of India, and wiped out a lot of equipment. At that point, Indira Gandhi began moving her forces toward West Pakistan, and President Nixon sent an ultimatum: An invasion of West Pakistan would bring the U.S. into the conflict. Meanwhile, all the Moslem countries rallied around Pakistanis and began pouring in supplies and manpower. China moved in a lot of equipment, while Russia backed the Indians all the way. So, it really became a kind of surrogate war - the Pakistanis, with U.S. training and equipment, versus the Indians, mostly Russian-trained, flying Soviet airplanes.

images

The Pakistanis whipped their [Indians'] a$$es in the sky, but it was the other way around in the ground war. The air war lasted two weeks and the Pakistanis scored a three-to-one kill ratio, knocking out 102 Russian-made Indian jets and losing thirty-four airplanes of their own. I'm certain about the figures because I went out several times a day in a chopper and counted the wrecks below. I counted wrecks on Pakistani soil, documented them by serial number, identified the components such as engines, rocket pods, and new equipment on newer planes like the Soviet SU-7 fighter-bomber and the MiG-21 J, their latest supersonic fighter. The Pakistani army would cart off these items for me, and when the war ended, it took two big American Air Force cargo lifters to carry all those parts back to the States for analysis by our intelligence division.

I didn't get involved in the actual combat because that would've been too touchy, but I did fly around and pick up shot-down Indian pilots and take them back to prisoner-of-war camps for questioning. I interviewed them about the equipment they had been flying and the tactics their Soviet advisers taught them to use. I wore a uniform or flying suit all the time, and it was amusing when those Indians saw my name tag and asked, "Are you the Yeager who broke the sound barrier?" They couldn't believe I was in Pakistan or understand what I was doing there. I told them, "I'm the American Defense Rep here. That's what I'm doing."

India flew numerous raids against the Pakistani air fields with brand new SU-7 bombers being escorted in with MiG 21s. On one of those raids, they clobbered my small Beech Queen Air that had U.S. Army markings and a big American flag painted on the tail. I had it parked at the Islamabad airport, and I remember sitting on my front porch on the second day of the war, thinking that maybe I ought to move that airplane down to the Iranian border, out of range of the Indian bombers, when the damned air-raid siren went off, and a couple of Indian jets came streaking in overhead. A moment later, I saw a column of black smoke rising from the air field. My Beech Queen was totaled. It was the Indian way of giving Uncle Sam the finger.

I stayed on in Pakistan for almost a year after the war ended, and it was one of the most enjoyable times of my life. From 1972 until we came home in March 1973, I spent most of my time flying in an F-86 Sabre with the Pakistani fighter outfits. I dearly loved the Sabre, almost as much as I enjoyed the P-51 Mustang from World War II days. It was a terrific airplane to fly and I took one to see K-2, the great mountain of Pakistan and the second highest mountain in the world, about an hour's flight away [from Islamabad] at over 28,000 feet.

It's a fabulous peak, as awesome and beautiful as any on earth, located in the middle of a high range that runs the length of the Chinese-Pakistani border. We actually crossed over into China to get there, and I've got some pictures of me in my cockpit right smack up against the summit. I made two or three trips up to K-2 - real highlights. I also did some bighorn sheep hunting in the Himalayan foothills. Susie owned a little Arabian mare. She took her horse when I went hunting and actually learned some of the Urdu language of the mountain people.

Copyright © 1985 by Yeager Inc.
 
Because unlike the top-end F-16IN(as compared to Block 52+), it did not fail IAF tests, LOL.

Could you point out the said comments
according to india all of the aircrafts participated in MRCA exceeded the requirements of IAF
 
Chuck Yeager and the Pakistan Air Force

An Excerpt from Yeager,

the Autobiography of General (Retd.) Chuck E. Yeager (USAF)


chuck+yeager+moofy.jpg


When we arrived in Pakistan in 1971, the political situation between the Pakistanis and Indians was really tense over Bangladesh, or East Pakistan, as it was known in those days, and Russia was backing India with tremendous amounts of new airplanes and tanks. The U.S. and China were backing the Pakistanis. My job was military advisor to the Pakistani air force, headed by AirMarshal Rahim Khan, who had been trained in Britain by the Royal Air Force, and was the first Pakistani pilot to exceed the speed of sound. He took me around to their different fighter groups and I met their pilots, who knew me and were really pleased that I was there. They had about five hundred airplanes, more than half of them Sabres and 104 Starfighters, a few B-57 bombers, and about a hundred Chinese MiG-19s. They were really good, aggressive dogfighters and proficient in gunnery and air combat tactics. I was damned impressed. Those guys just lived and breathed flying.

One of my first jobs there was to help them put U.S. Sidewinders on their Chinese MiGs, which were 1.6 Mach twin-engine airplanes that carried three thirty-millimeter canons. Our government furnished them with the rails for Sidewinders. They bought the missiles and all the checkout equipment that went with them, and it was one helluva interesting experience watching their electricians wiring up American missiles on a Chinese MiG. I worked with their squadrons and helped them develop combat tactics.The Chinese MiG was one hundred percent Chinese-built and was made for only one hundred hours of flying before it had to be scrapped - a disposable fighter good for one hundred strikes. In fairness, it was an older airplane in their inventory, and I guess they were just getting rid of them. They delivered spare parts, but it was a tough airplane to work on; the Pakistanis kept it flying for about 130 hours.

War broke out only a couple of months after we had arrived, in late November 1971, when India attacked East Pakistan. The battle lasted only three days before East Pakistan fell. India's intention was to annex East Pakistan and claim it for themselves. But the Pakistanis counter-attacked. Air Marshal Rahim Khan laid a strike on the four closest Indian air fields in the western part of India, and wiped out a lot of equipment. At that point, Indira Gandhi began moving her forces toward West Pakistan, and President Nixon sent an ultimatum: An invasion of West Pakistan would bring the U.S. into the conflict. Meanwhile, all the Moslem countries rallied around Pakistanis and began pouring in supplies and manpower. China moved in a lot of equipment, while Russia backed the Indians all the way. So, it really became a kind of surrogate war - the Pakistanis, with U.S. training and equipment, versus the Indians, mostly Russian-trained, flying Soviet airplanes.

images

The Pakistanis whipped their [Indians'] a$$es in the sky, but it was the other way around in the ground war. The air war lasted two weeks and the Pakistanis scored a three-to-one kill ratio, knocking out 102 Russian-made Indian jets and losing thirty-four airplanes of their own. I'm certain about the figures because I went out several times a day in a chopper and counted the wrecks below. I counted wrecks on Pakistani soil, documented them by serial number, identified the components such as engines, rocket pods, and new equipment on newer planes like the Soviet SU-7 fighter-bomber and the MiG-21 J, their latest supersonic fighter. The Pakistani army would cart off these items for me, and when the war ended, it took two big American Air Force cargo lifters to carry all those parts back to the States for analysis by our intelligence division.

I didn't get involved in the actual combat because that would've been too touchy, but I did fly around and pick up shot-down Indian pilots and take them back to prisoner-of-war camps for questioning. I interviewed them about the equipment they had been flying and the tactics their Soviet advisers taught them to use. I wore a uniform or flying suit all the time, and it was amusing when those Indians saw my name tag and asked, "Are you the Yeager who broke the sound barrier?" They couldn't believe I was in Pakistan or understand what I was doing there. I told them, "I'm the American Defense Rep here. That's what I'm doing."

India flew numerous raids against the Pakistani air fields with brand new SU-7 bombers being escorted in with MiG 21s. On one of those raids, they clobbered my small Beech Queen Air that had U.S. Army markings and a big American flag painted on the tail. I had it parked at the Islamabad airport, and I remember sitting on my front porch on the second day of the war, thinking that maybe I ought to move that airplane down to the Iranian border, out of range of the Indian bombers, when the damned air-raid siren went off, and a couple of Indian jets came streaking in overhead. A moment later, I saw a column of black smoke rising from the air field. My Beech Queen was totaled. It was the Indian way of giving Uncle Sam the finger.

I stayed on in Pakistan for almost a year after the war ended, and it was one of the most enjoyable times of my life. From 1972 until we came home in March 1973, I spent most of my time flying in an F-86 Sabre with the Pakistani fighter outfits. I dearly loved the Sabre, almost as much as I enjoyed the P-51 Mustang from World War II days. It was a terrific airplane to fly and I took one to see K-2, the great mountain of Pakistan and the second highest mountain in the world, about an hour's flight away [from Islamabad] at over 28,000 feet.

It's a fabulous peak, as awesome and beautiful as any on earth, located in the middle of a high range that runs the length of the Chinese-Pakistani border. We actually crossed over into China to get there, and I've got some pictures of me in my cockpit right smack up against the summit. I made two or three trips up to K-2 - real highlights. I also did some bighorn sheep hunting in the Himalayan foothills. Susie owned a little Arabian mare. She took her horse when I went hunting and actually learned some of the Urdu language of the mountain people.

Copyright © 1985 by Yeager Inc.
Assuming that PAF did whoop our asses in 1971, a few things.
1. This article is written by Chuck Yeager who spent a considerable time in Pakistan (and NONE in India) and would have obviously developed a sense of familiarity and liking for Pakistan. He flew along side your Air Force in jets flown by PAF(also made in America). Not to mention that at that time viz. the Cold War era, Pakistan was in the American fold and India with the Soviets, all of which makes a strong case for Ingroup Bias. Quotes like these only strengthen the case.
I stayed on in Pakistan for almost a year after the war ended, and it was one of the most enjoyable times of my life. From 1972 until we came home in March 1973, I spent most of my time flying in an F-86 Sabre with the Pakistani fighter outfits. I dearly loved the Sabre, almost as much as I enjoyed the P-51 Mustang from World War II days. It was a terrific airplane to fly and I took one to see K-2, the great mountain of Pakistan and the second highest mountain in the world, about an hour's flight away [from Islamabad] at over 28,000 feet.

It's a fabulous peak, as awesome and beautiful as any on earth, located in the middle of a high range that runs the length of the Chinese-Pakistani border. We actually crossed over into China to get there, and I've got some pictures of me in my cockpit right smack up against the summit. I made two or three trips up to K-2 - real highlights. I also did some bighorn sheep hunting in the Himalayan foothills. Susie owned a little Arabian mare. She took her horse when I went hunting and actually learned some of the Urdu language of the mountain people.
I don't know if you have read this or not but it might be of interest.
The right stuff in the wrong place - Chuck Yeager's crash landing in Pakistan
Don't forget to read Post #3

2. As mentioned before he did not fly with the Indians. Neither does he claim that Indians were any less professional than their Pakistani counterparts in any case.
3. Yeager predicted that East Pakistani Air Force could hold of the Indians for a month. LOL
4. This is 1971 where people were flying Hunters and Sabres.
:welcome: TO THE 21st CENTURY.:wave:
 
Last edited:
Assuming that PAF did whoop our asses in 1971, a few things.
1. This article is written by Chuck Yeager who spent a considerable time in Pakistan (and NONE in India) and would have obviously developed a sense of familiarity and liking for Pakistan. He flew along side your Air Force in jets flown by PAF(also made in America). Not to mention that at that time viz. the Cold War era, Pakistan was in the American fold and India with the Soviets, all of which makes a strong case for Ingroup Bias. Quotes like these only strengthen the case.

I don't know if you have read this or not but it might be of interest.
The right stuff in the wrong place - Chuck Yeager's crash landing in Pakistan
Don't forget to read Post #3

2. As mentioned before he did not fly with the Indians. Neither does he claim that Indians were any less professional than their Pakistani counterparts in any case.
3. Yeager predicted that East Pakistani Air Force could hold of the Indians for a month. LOL
4. This is 1971 where people were flying Hunters and Sabres.
:welcome: TO THE 21st CENTURY.

Well, if Chuck Yeager is not enough then you fake ISI passes on kashmiri freedom fighters are probably more realistic. There is endless of stupidity in some posters here.
 
I have walked between the best pilots in the world. I mean not a few but hundreds. I can tell you honestly that there is not only difference between the Pakistani in attitude (being humble and quiet) but the way they will fight and be able to win. The Pakistani pilots are probably same as Israeli. It is do or die and not anything else. I trust our pilots to perform far better then any other. Surely the Indians are not bad but it is another level. Maybe even a few. Same goes with the engineers. I have talked indeed to Indian engineers and honestly they are fine people. But still they are not comparable with the attitude and knowledge of the Pakistani. I am sure that there are not many posters here that have done that before writing down their opinion. I men, wen I talk about Druv... You can be sure I almost sat in one...

So, I do not mind Indians but they are not super humans. Even if they think they are they are not going to perform that way. Not in the past and not now or the future.
 

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom