PAC Spells Out Project Azm, FGFA Program, etc.

[Raider 21]

Nothing is impossible.

Pakistan has brilliant scientists and engineers who are affordable and produce the results. As long PA controls and manages the project we will have it out in 10 years.

PAC should be in charge of the projec

For all her issues, I remember Reham Khan actually saying (a few years back when she was married to IK), "what's the point of spending on education when there are no jobs?" It's the same issue everywhere you go, e.g. in Canada many in the STEM field have to head to the US (or China!) for work.

The two lead PAF engineers responsible for repairing the damaged Saab 2000s did their PhDs in the UK. I suspect there are now quite a few of these guys in the PAF now who (having gained some insight into the time organic R&D takes in the West and subject matter expertise) now believe there's enough to start Project Azm.

They were sent to do their PhDs in the UK. It was more of an assignment for a qualification and had little to do with education. Even the last test pilot candidates that went to the UK for the test pilot course, one of them got suspended in flying, and the rest struggled heavily due to their lack of engineering backgrounds.

In the engineering wing there are a lot who are very qualified academically. Applying it has become a sort of competition for assignments rather than teamwork for an ultimate goal.

The new team that has come into PAC have taken a few hits on the international stage (Paris and Dubai air show briefings) that they are over 30 years behind and are now under pressure from the new ACM to work on their stuff. And thankfully they are picking it up bit-by-bit, if not going in the reverse direction.

 

[Yaseen1]

There is nothing impossible or close to impossible
Do you really believe success comes with having a giant economy or institutions? Or does it come with having Barakah of a good intention and hard work to match it?

"Allah ne insaan ke hath be neeyat aur koshish di hai
Kamyabi woh deta hai"

We will make it happen just like we always have. Be it getting a country of our own, fighting overwhelming odds on the border, making the nukes, the missiles, the JF-17.
There were always the doubters in every one of those...

ALLAH ALMIGHTY WILL help us surely but when we implement Islamic law truely in our country but currently we are not doing this so we may not see our expectations and desires coming true

 

[litman]

project azm should be renamed as project truck ki batti. even paf itself knows that they dont have the funds and expertise to develop fifth gen jet.

 

[Cookie Monster]

project azm should be renamed as project truck ki batti. even paf itself knows that they dont have the funds and expertise to develop fifth gen jet.

So what's ur solution? How can u decide that this project is bound to fail before it has reached a conclusion? Do u have some crystal ball that the rest of the ppl don't? It's true that Pakistan is behind in many things but Pak has to start somewhere...or r u suggesting that Pak shouldn't attempt this due to the fear of failure? By that reasoning why should anyone attempt to do anything?

 

[Khurram2349]

Even if $20 billion dollars out of over $200 billion dollars , which is looted by mother selling corrupt ruling elite of our nation can be recovered , then PAF can not only start FGFA but many other programs necessary for our defense !

 

[Khanate]

At some point, the armed forces will have to change their doctrines from a large scale fighting force to a smaller but technologically advance and well equipped fighting force. Investing in Project Azm is a step in the right direction.

 

[khansaheeb]

PAC should be in charge of the projec

They were sent to do their PhDs in the UK. It was more of an assignment for a qualification and had little to do with education. Even the last test pilot candidates that went to the UK for the test pilot course, one of them got suspended in flying, and the rest struggled heavily due to their lack of engineering backgrounds.

In the engineering wing there are a lot who are very qualified academically. Applying it has become a sort of competition for assignments rather than teamwork for an ultimate goal.

The new team that has come into PAC have taken a few hits on the international stage (Paris and Dubai air show briefings) that they are over 30 years behind and are now under pressure from the new ACM to work on their stuff. And thankfully they are picking it up bit-by-bit, if not going in the reverse direction.

UK and their ex-colonies are a colonial basket case of deep racism, weird fanatical class system and narcissistic monetary and banking system. Of course there aren't going to be jobs for intelligent, trained and able students.

 

[Raider 21]

UK and their ex-colonies are a colonial basket case of deep racism, weird fanatical class system and narcissistic monetary and banking system. Of course there aren't going to be jobs for intelligent, trained and able students.

I don't know what you meant by that but overall PAF has a steep learning curve ahead to engage themselves in....and I am hoping they have the right people to do it. Otherwise all of us forum members would be running the show there....

 

[MastanKhan]

I don't know what you meant by that but overall PAF has a steep learning curve ahead to engage themselves in....and I am hoping they have the right people to do it. Otherwise all of us forum members would be running the show there....

Hi,

Let us not sell the forum members short---. Just Paf officers are running the show in Paf---does not mean that they are more informed---.

It has been observed many a times---that the Paf officers are illiterate in many an affairs of tactical awareness---procurement etc---.

Paf is a great example of " inbred mentality--- ".

 

[Raider 21]

Hi,

Let us not sell the forum members short---. Just Paf officers are running the show in Paf---does not mean that they are more informed---.

It has been observed many a times---that the Paf officers are illiterate in many an affairs of tactical awareness---procurement etc---.

Paf is a great example of " inbred mentality--- ".

Mastan,

Please read my post where I wrote I hope.

I am well aware of their shortcomings, or at least some of them if not all of them. So I apologise if I don't meet eye to eye where you enjoy your prejudices.

Regards,

Knuckles

 

[araz]

UK and their ex-colonies are a colonial basket case of deep racism, weird fanatical class system and narcissistic monetary and banking system. Of course there aren't going to be jobs for intelligent, trained and able students.

I dont think these guys who visit as foreign students are discriminated against in any way. Their matter is totally different from people like me who come in looking for jobs and make their way up the ladder. Since you are taking on jobs in a tight fiscal environment there is bound to be challanges faced for visitors and this is uniformly so for Visiting people.
Our visiting students suffer due to the differences in our educational styles(ours being memorization while theirs being using the knowledge to interpret processes and reach results). I have known people from Cranfield from as far back as 88. The problem then was the people being sent over were "mature students" in their mid to late 40s who were perhaps unsuited for the persuits that were required. Things may have changed but I am not sure our educational system and more importantly the ethos has changed to any extent. I have laways heard people who fail at a stage in their lives blaming bias. Firstly Having made it to the other end I now realize that the people come out and tell you how difficult the examination was but dont tell you they failed at the previous step when they did not answer a simple question. So dont listen to the failed people and listen to those who have made it. At that time most of the visitors were mostly interested in trying to stay back if they could get a decent offer locally in UK. Things may have changed now.
A

 

[SQ8]

I dont think these guys who visit as foreign students are discriminated against in any way. Their matter is totally different from people like me who come in looking for jobs and make their way up the ladder. Since you are taking on jobs in a tight fiscal environment there is bound to be challanges faced for visitors and this is uniformly so for Visiting people.
Our visiting students suffer due to the differences in our educational styles(ours being memorization while theirs being using the knowledge to interpret processes and reach results). I have known people from Cranfield from as far back as 88. The problem then was the people being sent over were "mature students" in their mid to late 40s who were perhaps unsuited for the persuits that were required. Things may have changed but I am not sure our educational system and more importantly the ethos has changed to any extent. I have laways heard people who fail at a stage in their lives blaming bias. Firstly Having made it to the other end I now realize that the people come out and tell you how difficult the examination was but dont tell you they failed at the previous step when they did not answer a simple question. So dont listen to the failed people and listen to those who have made it. At that time most of the visitors were mostly interested in trying to stay back if they could get a decent offer locally in UK. Things may have changed now.
A

A simple issue I observed during my student tenure there, a marine engineering student was working in a restaurant out there trying to get a PR using his cooking skills. He was on a scholarship and would not return to Pakistan since his idea was finding his way out. It is this sort of economic migration I am opposed to and I understand why the rest of the world is opposed to.
You may be looking for a better life but any better life built on lies and self interests is pathetic.

 

[Raider 21]

A simple issue I observed during my student tenure there, a marine engineering student was working in a restaurant out there trying to get a PR using his cooking skills. He was on a scholarship and would not return to Pakistan since his idea was finding his way out. It is this sort of economic migration I am opposed to and I understand why the rest of the world is opposed to.
You may be looking for a better life but any better life built on lies and self interests is pathetic.

If he was sent on a scholarship program from Pakistan then he should've gone back to his home country. But if he had achieved a scholarship in the UK and eventually planned to settle down there than there is nothing wrong with that.

I dont think these guys who visit as foreign students are discriminated against in any way. Their matter is totally different from people like me who come in looking for jobs and make their way up the ladder. Since you are taking on jobs in a tight fiscal environment there is bound to be challanges faced for visitors and this is uniformly so for Visiting people.
Our visiting students suffer due to the differences in our educational styles(ours being memorization while theirs being using the knowledge to interpret processes and reach results). I have known people from Cranfield from as far back as 88. The problem then was the people being sent over were "mature students" in their mid to late 40s who were perhaps unsuited for the persuits that were required. Things may have changed but I am not sure our educational system and more importantly the ethos has changed to any extent. I have laways heard people who fail at a stage in their lives blaming bias. Firstly Having made it to the other end I now realize that the people come out and tell you how difficult the examination was but dont tell you they failed at the previous step when they did not answer a simple question. So dont listen to the failed people and listen to those who have made it. At that time most of the visitors were mostly interested in trying to stay back if they could get a decent offer locally in UK. Things may have changed now.
A

They learn the hard way that coming first in academics is not enough. A qualification is not the same as education.

 

[SQ8]

If he was sent on a scholarship program from Pakistan then he should've gone back to his home country. But if he had achieved a scholarship in the UK and eventually planned to settle down there than there is nothing wrong with that.


They learn the hard way that coming first in academics is not enough. A qualification is not the same as education.

Sure, but then dont take the spot for Marine Engineering if all you want to do is cook Karhai.

 

[GriffinsRule]

Sure, but then dont take the spot for Marine Engineering if all you want to do is cook Karhai.

Why cant he pursue both? And if he got in the engineering school on merit, whats the issue? There is no someone else's spot in that case. And if the issue is a dreath of spots in Pakistan for those higher education disciplines, we should be concentrating on creating more graduate level institutions to meet the increasing demand from the growing under-30 crowd in Pakistan