PAC Spells Out Project Azm, FGFA Program, etc.

[Trango Towers]

Pakistan has outlined what needs to be done. Its now getting on with it.
For thoae that are saying jf17 is very old etc...know this that the invauable experiece gained for Azm wouldnt be there. Now they can produxe structures integrate weapons systems and avionics, have local experts to fix issues and hence can plot and plan for the next gen. The will of the Pakistani people is undeniable when they want something. 5th gen will come and yes there are shortcomings but the gap is reducing daily. When i was at Cranfield Institute of Technology doinv my masters in aircraft design they had just started sending students....that was years ago

 

[Yaseen1]

Glass half full.....people said that about the atomic bomb. Missiles. Jf17 , Ak tank and i could go on.


Where does it say about local version of j31?

atom bomb is very easy to develop and all countries in this world can develop it if u.s allow them.nuclear knowledge is widely available , jf17 is low quality jet fighter and stands no where infront of world latest jets .5 gen is very difficult and no country except u.s has true 5 gen jet

 

[Ultima Thule]

atom bomb is very easy to develop and all countries in this world can develop it if u.s allow them.nuclear knowledge is widely available , jf17 is low quality jet fighter and stands no where infront of world latest jets .5 gen is very difficult and no country except u.s has true 5 gen jet

JF-17 have almost same capabilities of F-16, and in some areas it will be batter, block-3 batter than Block-52 in the term of avionic/Radar/ECM, etc etc, please explain why you think JF-17 is low quality jet, it will stand almost all against 4th/4.5th gen jets @Muhammad bin Hamid

 

[Trango Towers]

atom bomb is very easy to develop and all countries in this world can develop it if u.s allow them.nuclear knowledge is widely available , jf17 is low quality jet fighter and stands no where infront of world latest jets .5 gen is very difficult and no country except u.s has true 5 gen jet

Bhai jaan....if its that easy isis would have developed it and as far as i remember our first breath is hard, first step is hard but with will and determination nothing is impossible

 

[Yaseen1]

JF-17 have almost same capabilities of F-16, and in some areas it will be batter, block-3 batter than Block-52 in the term of avionic/Radar/ECM, etc etc, please explain why you think JF-17 is low quality jet, it will stand almost all against 4th/4.5th gen jets @Muhammad bin Hamid

jf17 is not battle tested but f16 is tested and verified for decades in real war so f 16 is much better jf17 can be easily downed by airdefense and china not use it for its defense

Bhai jaan....if its that easy isis would have developed it and as far as i remember our first breath is hard, first step is hard but with will and determination nothing is impossible

isis is controlled by u.s and they will never allow them nukes development

 

[Trango Towers]

jf17 is not battle tested but f16 is tested and verified for decades in real war so f 16 is much better jf17 can be easily downed by airdefense and china not use it for its defense


isis is controlled by u.s and they will never allow them nukes development

Bro you know what i am saying

We bith know dirty nukes are easy to make just need a hunk of the right stuff and collide them togather using expl....and you have a big bang. Similarly once we start making fith gen they will look easy

 

[Ultima Thule]

jf17 is not battle tested but f16 is tested and verified for decades in real war so f 16 is much better jf17 can be easily downed by airdefense and china not use it for its defense

LOL every new fighter haven't battle tested, can you give me source when F-22 is battle tested, F-35, EF-2000 , Grippan, Su-35 battle tested @Muhammad bin Hamid , and as for JF-17 easily downed by airdefense, you're kidding me JF-17 is a defense fighter don't need for go through enemy airdefense as for air defense missions it can deny enemy jets by using SD-10A BVR/ stand off cruise missiles @Muhammad bin Hamid

As for JF-17 don't used by PLAAF what a ridiculous logic you have @Muhammad bin Hamid , JF-17 is designed and developed especially for PAF specifications @Muhammad bin Hamid , look China is world 4th largest country by area to protect China borders they need bigger jet to petrol the swath of China, that why they didn't induct JF-17 and upcoming JF-17 block-3 is on par with J-10B/C in the term of avionics/radar and ECM/EW package with the exception of Payloads @Muhammad bin Hamid

 

[The Eagle]

Members are advised to keep this JF-17 capability and battle tested argument out of the thread. Once you made your point, there is no need to repeat again & again.

The thread belongs to PAC-FGFA under project Azm so please continue with such subject in mind.

Regards,

 

[cabatli_53]

Now, FGFA and AZM are two different projects Pakistan aims to develop ?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Now, FGFA and AZM are two different projects Pakistan aims to develop ?

Same project.

 

[The Eagle]

Now, FGFA and AZM are two different projects Pakistan aims to develop ?

The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has formally announced it will commence development of a 5th-generation fighter, medium altitude long-endurance (MALE) unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) and munitions under the banner of “Project Azm” (i.e. resolve or determination).

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

To those people who say it "can't" happen, that's what they used to say about our nuclear and missile programs as well.

 

[denel]

jf17 is very old plane if you compare to rest world .there is a proper procedure to get and develop these high tech weapons.they are not obtained quickly.first we should spend on education and develop high class universities like u.s and europe and develop good scientists and engineers capable of developing such high technology then such project will become successful otherwise we will develop low quality plane and regard it 5 gen but its capabilities will be limited to 4 gen aircraft

Correct. It starts with building education base first the rest follows; what i am observing is a top down approach; which is in my opinion wrong.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Correct. It starts with building education base first the rest follows; what i am observing is a top down approach; which is in my opinion wrong.

I don't think it's mutually exclusive. Project Azm is basically PAC's program to make a FGFA, but to secure the necessary inputs it too recognizes the need for organic educational and R&D investment, which will occur now in order to get this and other projects going. In Pakistan, such investment tends to require a tangible outcome for it to be taken seriously. Well, the PAF has given them that goal (i.e. a 5th-gen fighter).

 

[JamD]

I don't think it's mutually exclusive. Project Azm is basically PAC's program to make a FGFA, but to secure the necessary inputs it too recognizes the need for organic educational and R&D investment, which will occur now in order to get this and other projects going. In Pakistan, such investment tends to require a tangible outcome for it to be taken seriously. Well, the PAF has given them that goal (i.e. a 5th-gen fighter).

You've hit the nail on the head there. The problem isn't that there is a shortage of trained engineers and researchers. The problem is we are producing them in the hundreds each year (with a lot of them going abroad to improve their skills even more) but we don't have anything for them to do (once they graduate locally or internationally). This initiative ought to change that.

With the sudden improvement seen in higher education during the early 2000s we started producing a lot of highly skilled workforce (with our usual lack of foresight) but didn't think where they'll work once they graduate. We've been producing these people in a vacuum at increasing rates ever since. Academic research needs direction and can't function as a stand alone entity. We have essentially been training people to go do research abroad (likes of me included). If there is suddenly something all these engineers and researchers can do in Pakistan, believe me they will jump at the opportunity.

On a related note, I did hear some stories about how in the early 2000s military organizations did try funding research in universities but they often lost money in these endeavors. They soon stopped. This can be because our researchers were incompetent, or because these organizations didn't have an appreciation for how slowly academic research progresses. I would think the latter was more true.