Over 60% of ‘Made In India’ IAF Tejas Grounded

[DocEinstein]

Jali tere ? Jali naa?
Ghafoora had tweeted long ago about truckloads of Burnol we have available to send you as a considerate neighbour..
Ziada jale gi to phir phate gi ! We have too much air smog and fumes coming from your open air latrines as it is !

 

[Bilal9]

Bla Bla Bla......nice paint job....underneath is all patchwork... just look at the finishing around Tejas Gun Port.

View attachment 715760

Pathetic! This is what happens when you get third rate govt. employees to build a fighter platform. I bet you could take it to a roadside balti-maker sheetmetal workshop anywhere in our subcontinent and they could hammer out a better proposition than this contraption...MAHAAN !!

 

[Bilal9]

That’s the point right they are not ordering these in droves. 40 aircraft first order 86 aircraft second order under intense Goverment pressure. This is a political decision not a coherent one. The air force is buying these in token numbers just like the hf-24 Marut. unfortunately we will keep disagreeing here as you will understand the logic the IAF sees. The Indian navy saw and all other countries see.

if the Jf17 ergo PAF are not previewed as more capable than why is the IAF nit buying any more of the existing aircraft. Why no more mig-29s, mirage 2000, su-30s ........ these are all useless against PAF which flies the JF-17 and f-16s in the air domanence role. The PAF clearly Wants mire f-16s and JF-17s

today Pakistan is not capable of taking back kasmir. In 3-4 years after modernization we would be able to try. We need a bigger economy for this We pray that cpec trade will enable this. I pray that Allah forgive us for our failure to free our Kashmiri brothers they suffer because Pakistan is not capable yet.

listen to the opinions of your experts they are right.

the PAF was trained by the Americans we maintain our equipment at nato levels. It’s always been like this. We learnt to live within our means.

suparco is severely under funded . There yearly budget is 5- 6 million us$ I believe 70% of which is consumed by salaries. It’s surprising how they developed a satellite. This is on the other hand a great seat for us to train scientists and move them to Defence projects. The chief designer of Shaheen systems was ex supAeco need i go on.

k

USAF commanders always praise the superior training of PAF, both pilots and maintenance. This is fact.

US general praises PAF pilots’ skills

Pakistan Air Force F-16C/D aircraft travelled more than 12,300 kilometres to participate in Red Flag 16-4 exercises.

www.dawn.com

 

[The Maverick]

re

That’s the point right they are not ordering these in droves. 40 aircraft first order 86 aircraft second order under intense Goverment pressure. This is a political decision not a coherent one. The air force is buying these in token numbers just like the hf-24 Marut. unfortunately we will keep disagreeing here as you will understand the logic the IAF sees. The Indian navy saw and all other countries see.

if the Jf17 ergo PAF are not previewed as more capable than why is the IAF nit buying any more of the existing aircraft. Why no more mig-29s, mirage 2000, su-30s ........ these are all useless against PAF which flies the JF-17 and f-16s in the air domanence role. The PAF clearly Wants mire f-16s and JF-17s

today Pakistan is not capable of taking back kasmir. In 3-4 years after modernization we would be able to try. We need a bigger economy for this We pray that cpec trade will enable this. I pray that Allah forgive us for our failure to free our Kashmiri brothers they suffer because Pakistan is not capable yet.

listen to the opinions of your experts they are right.

the PAF was trained by the Americans we maintain our equipment at nato levels. It’s always been like this. We learnt to live within our means.

suparco is severely under funded . There yearly budget is 5- 6 million us$ I believe 70% of which is consumed by salaries. It’s surprising how they developed a satellite. This is on the other hand a great seat for us to train scientists and move them to Defence projects. The chief designer of Shaheen systems was ex supAeco need i go on.

k

yes of course they are useless against mirage2000 and su30

that explains why China fields 500 fka

That’s the point right they are not ordering these in droves. 40 aircraft first order 86 aircraft second order under intense Goverment pressure. This is a political decision not a coherent one. The air force is buying these in token numbers just like the hf-24 Marut. unfortunately we will keep disagreeing here as you will understand the logic the IAF sees. The Indian navy saw and all other countries see.

if the Jf17 ergo PAF are not previewed as more capable than why is the IAF nit buying any more of the existing aircraft. Why no more mig-29s, mirage 2000, su-30s ........ these are all useless against PAF which flies the JF-17 and f-16s in the air domanence role. The PAF clearly Wants mire f-16s and JF-17s

today Pakistan is not capable of taking back kasmir. In 3-4 years after modernization we would be able to try. We need a bigger economy for this We pray that cpec trade will enable this. I pray that Allah forgive us for our failure to free our Kashmiri brothers they suffer because Pakistan is not capable yet.

listen to the opinions of your experts they are right.

the PAF was trained by the Americans we maintain our equipment at nato levels. It’s always been like this. We learnt to live within our means.

suparco is severely under funded . There yearly budget is 5- 6 million us$ I believe 70% of which is consumed by salaries. It’s surprising how they developed a satellite. This is on the other hand a great seat for us to train scientists and move them to Defence projects. The chief designer of Shaheen systems was ex supAeco need i go on.

k

talk is cheap your funding capability is zero in the future and your struggling to buy anything bar thunders which are very economical.

China has 500 flankers and nil thunders s fighter they design and sell.you..
training and NATO standards is over you are now a China standard air power and we saw there ability in ladakh ie zero
finally all 23 tejas flying come with hmd display and hobs missles crucial for air.combat as do mig29 and mki and mirage2000.
your block 52 have them.
now the shocker not one of your current 120 jf17 has a hmd or modern hobs missle.
it's rushed cheap product designed for low tier 3rd world export market with your air Force the biggest buyer to date . with license assembly rights,

it's not a patch on tejas inferior flight control.and engines that smoke leaving trailing smoke.

f16 is the the only thing stopping total air supremacy over paf in a war.
with rafales and s400 coming I give pakistan one week in war even the f16 will not survive that level of threat

 

[Khan vilatey]

re


yes of course they are useless against mirage2000 and su30

that explains why China fields 500 fka


talk is cheap your funding capability is zero in the future and your struggling to buy anything bar thunders which are very economical.

China has 500 flankers and nil thunders s fighter they design and sell.you..
training and NATO standards is over you are now a China standard air power and we saw there ability in ladakh ie zero
finally all 23 tejas flying come with hmd display and hobs missles crucial for air.combat as do mig29 and mki and mirage2000.
your block 52 have them.
now the shocker not one of your current 120 jf17 has a hmd or modern hobs missle.
it's rushed cheap product designed for low tier 3rd world export market with your air Force the biggest buyer to date . with license assembly rights,

it's not a patch on tejas inferior flight control.and engines that smoke leaving trailing smoke.

f16 is the the only thing stopping total air supremacy over paf in a war.
with rafales and s400 coming I give pakistan one week in war even the f16 will not survive that level of threat

Okay so we will just have to defeat you in war against inshallah.

The Chinese don’t fly your franko monster su-30s. They fly the reliable ones .......

K

 

[The Maverick]

Okay so we will just have to defeat you in war against inshallah.

The Chinese don’t fly your franko monster su-30s. They fly the reliable ones .......

K

dress it

Okay so we will just have to defeat you in war against inshallah.

The Chinese don’t fly your franko monster su-30s. They fly the reliable ones .......

K

You have no idea about chinease reliability of flankers . One thing i know they carry no israeli jammers or french avionics like he su30mki

Here is chinease flankers

Here is Mki india

270 of these equip 13 squadrons

range and load out endurance are the best in south asia

2 of these took on 8 F16 in BVR and 4 or 5 shots later your F16 top guns departed for home with no kill

imagine if it was 8 v 8

 

[Khan vilatey]

dress it



You have no idea about chinease reliability of flankers . One thing i know they carry no israeli jammers or french avionics like he su30mki

Here is chinease flankers
View attachment 715914

Here is Mki india

View attachment 715916

270 of these equip 13 squadrons

range and load out endurance are the best in south asia

2 of these took on 8 F16 in BVR and 4 or 5 shots later your F16 top guns departed for home with no kill

imagine if it was 8 v 8

Yes here is the reality of the su-30 mki fun starts at 3;50

dress it



You have no idea about chinease reliability of flankers . One thing i know they carry no israeli jammers or french avionics like he su30mki

Here is chinease flankers
View attachment 715914

Here is Mki india

View attachment 715916

270 of these equip 13 squadrons

range and load out endurance are the best in south asia

2 of these took on 8 F16 in BVR and 4 or 5 shots later your F16 top guns departed for home with no kill

imagine if it was 8 v 8

The reason why PAF shot down Indian su-30s is dare hoshiyari and banya pan of India to create a franko monster that does not work. The Chinese suffer from none of this

the fun starts at 3:50

k

 

[MilSpec]

Wait,
Can I write an article that says 100% of JF17 are grounded & that would a proof for that fact?

This is a defence forum and now a days the proofs provided here are so silly that you need to double check if this is indeed a defence forum.

ha ha

 

[Khan vilatey]

dress it



You have no idea about chinease reliability of flankers . One thing i know they carry no israeli jammers or french avionics like he su30mki

Here is chinease flankers
View attachment 715914

Here is Mki india

View attachment 715916

270 of these equip 13 squadrons

range and load out endurance are the best in south asia

2 of these took on 8 F16 in BVR and 4 or 5 shots later your F16 top guns departed for home with no kill

imagine if it was 8 v 8

MaV,

I understand it’s hard for you to understand but people don’t forget their training just because they change equipment.PAF flew mig-22s, f-16s, mirages and a-5 fantan’s all of which were maintained at nato standards. By the same vein india a Russian trained air force maintains their aircraft at 40-50% availability. Even the mirages were initially terribly maintained by HAL today they are maintained by destu where the contract actually states ( this went to court and HAL lost) desu the contractor will maintain the aircraft with their staff with full responsibility of mataining standards without interference of HAL. Even today The maintenance of mirages is the most expensive item in the Indian defence budget. Yet incompetent pilots of the IAF keep crashing these aircraft! All crashes since 2004 I think have been declared as pilot error. You can search the Hindu it was a great report.



so in conclusion the fault is with the Indian not the equipment. Indian pilot flies less 120 hours/ year, they are badly treated and trained we all know about the crashes of HAL HPT-32 Deepak and HJT-16 Kiran

Do your research, before bluster buddy!

k

 

[fallstuff]

Is this true ?

 

[anathema]

Astonishingly loop is hardly a worthy manoeuvre but only Tejas has the honour of performing a Formula F-1 move in the air.

Once again congratulations on JF performing a loop finally - it surely most have moistened your eyes..

PAF never committed to BAS so there is no question of pulling out or any fine besides apart from desperate to make an entrance, besides Tejas how many fighter jets did actually participate in that so called airshow.
You see compared to Farnborough, Paris, Dubai, Zhuhai amongst others where the JF participated, BAS is like a car boot sale.

Heavy fine was paid to BAS organizers for pulling out at the last minute. BAS had planned everything for JF participation - time slots, booth, and other stuff ; And if you withdraw - you pay penalty. Its an open secret - that JF withdrew after Tejas confirmed participation. What does it tell about the mindset of PAF - i wonder. Anyways i honestly hope both these a/cs participate in an airshow !

 

[anathema]

That’s the point right they are not ordering these in droves. 40 aircraft first order 86 aircraft second order under intense Goverment pressure. This is a political decision not a coherent one. The air force is buying these in token numbers just like the hf-24 Marut. unfortunately we will keep disagreeing here as you will understand the logic the IAF sees. The Indian navy saw and all other countries see.

6.5 Billion dollars worth of order for Tejas Mk1A and you are telling that Airforce is buying for tokenism ! What is the order size of thunder - can you tell ?
Read more khan and argue logically. And by the way - you will see orders of Htt 40 shortly and then followed by Mk2 within next couple of years.

if the Jf17 ergo PAF are not previewed as more capable than why is the IAF nit buying any more of the existing aircraft. Why no more mig-29s, mirage 2000, su-30s ........ these are all useless against PAF which flies the JF-17 and f-16s in the air domanence role. The PAF clearly Wants mire f-16s and JF-17s

Mig 29 - They are happy - you can see that all Mig29's have been upgraded. However there are maintenance issues, not happy with the engine troubles - similar class of engine JF has.
M2K - France is not building them. India did not buy more and instead opted to launch stupid MMRCA competition. Result is rafale - a much more capable aircraft.
Su30's - More than 200's in service. No point in becoming top heavy service.
Finally - Competition is against China and not against PAF. PAF is no longer troubling Indian planners. Infact other than politics - PAK is not even considered just the way we dont consider srilanka.

today Pakistan is not capable of taking back kasmir. In 3-4 years after modernization we would be able to try. We need a bigger economy for this We pray that cpec trade will enable this. I pray that Allah forgive us for our failure to free our Kashmiri brothers they suffer because Pakistan is not capable yet.

Pak will never be able to take back. It never was and never will be - all these messaging is purely for optics and for making sure your army has a role to play in society. Think about this - if there is no Kashmir problem what is the role of you army.
CPEC trade is doomed - China will desperately try to pump in money but there is no business rationale and no ROI. Ultimately PAk is falling into a debt trap - and it will soon be a slave to China just the way it was to USA. Only this time - China will extract its pound of flesh unlike the gentle Americans.

listen to the opinions of your experts they are right.

Whose ? Two guys dont maketh an opinion - by the way have you listened to Abhijeeth Iyer Mitra and how he potrays PAK army ? You cant be selective - do you want me to post his video on how he sees PAK and PAK army ? His views on CPEC ?
Do you agree with Ayesha Sidiqa ?

the PAF was trained by the Americans we maintain our equipment at nato levels. It’s always been like this. We learnt to live within our means.

You dont have means. Whatever was there in 60's and 70's has been eaten away by Fauji inc. You can claim to be trained by God himself , wait some of guys actually do. However war fighting is not in PAK's capacity - it is best a mercenary army employed by rich gulf states.

I know most of these is contrary - but your capability is been degraded on a daily basis. Not by outside enemies but by people within. What is left is a fight to win public perception !

 

[Windjammer]

Once again congratulations on JF performing a loop finally - it surely most have moistened your eyes..

Not sure why do you think an aircraft doing a loop is some achievement. If an aircraft can go up all it has to do is pull back on the stick and just do a u-turn over the top.
However, an aircraft meant to fly is often dragged around on a trailer finally leaves the truck must indeed have been a tear jerker for a billion folks.

Heavy fine was paid to BAS organizers for pulling out at the last minute. BAS had planned everything for JF participation - time slots, booth, and other stuff ; And if you withdraw - you pay penalty. Its an open secret - that JF withdrew after Tejas confirmed participation. What does it tell about the mindset of PAF - i wonder. Anyways i honestly hope both these a/cs participate in an airshow !

Not quite, PAF in the first place wasn't keen to participate in a show lacking any fighter jets. Check out if there was any worthy participants....an F-22 made a pass to bring some life to the dead show.
BTW, one could also argue, why is Tejas missing in all the real International Airshows....where JF attended repeatedly.

 

[anathema]

MaV,

I understand it’s hard for you to understand but people don’t forget their training just because they change equipment.PAF flew mig-22s, f-16s, mirages and a-5 fantan’s all of which were maintained at nato standards. By the same vein india a Russian trained air force maintains their aircraft at 40-50% availability. Even the mirages were initially terribly maintained by HAL today they are maintained by destu where the contract actually states ( this went to court and HAL lost) desu the contractor will maintain the aircraft with their staff with full responsibility of mataining standards without interference of HAL. Even today The maintenance of mirages is the most expensive item in the Indian defence budget. Yet incompetent pilots of the IAF keep crashing these aircraft! All crashes since 2004 I think have been declared as pilot error. You can search the Hindu it was a great report.

What a joke ! Heres a fact - if you dont fly you dont crash ! PAF hardly flies - infact after last feb when the sortie rates became too high it lost a slew of aircraft to crashes.
Russian trained airforce...lol... Your thought process amazes me. Basically because you are american trained air force - we can never be put down. What kind of logic is this ? Anyways all the best if thats the way you think

so in conclusion the fault is with the Indian not the equipment. Indian pilot flies less 120 hours/ year, they are badly treated and trained we all know about the crashes of HAL HPT-32 Deepak and HJT-16 Kiran

Do your research, before bluster buddy!

k

Indian pilot flies less than 120 hours...lol. You seriously are a joke. Heres a tip - go to youtube and listen to fighter podcasts. These are done by American fighter pilots. Listen to their interviews of Bundle Tyagi and Harish Masand. Man you guys are fed so much propoganda - that you start believing in the lies that you see.

Not sure why do you think an aircraft doing a loop is some achievement. If an aircraft can go up all it has to do is pull back on the stick and just do a u-turn over the top.

Nope i am just congratulating on successful completion of Loop. JF has come of age.

Not quite, PAF in the first place wasn't keen to participate in a show lacking any fighter jets. Check out if there was any worthy participants....an F-22 made a pass to bring some life to the dead show.

You can say whatever windy - PAF paid heavy fine. I wonder what kind of organization pays fine to backout. All the bahrain organizers tacitly admitted that the backout happened after Tejas participation. Anyways i am hoping that we do see head to head. Did not happen in Malaysia - i was hoping for it. I remember visiting Typhoon, seeing F22 , if i recollect - russians were also there.

BTW, one could also argue, why is Tejas missing in all the real International Airshows....where JF attended repeatedly.

Dont confuse between backing out of a participation versus not signing up for participation. Not signing up for participation is pure function of budget. Unlike PAK here the budget is controlled by government. But more airshows will be signed up for sure. Infact in 2022 post pandemic - participation will increase !

 

[Windjammer]

Nope i am just congratulating on successful completion of Loop. JF has come of age.

They say Israeli soldiers don't know how to march yet they are considered as the best fighting machine around.....JF has scored an air to air kill and has successfully engaged ground targets, which to any observer is much more important than seeing it perform a loop'

You can say whatever windy - PAF paid heavy fine. I wonder what kind of organization pays fine to backout. All the bahrain organizers tacitly admitted that the backout happened after Tejas participation. Anyways i am hoping that we do see head to head. Did not happen in Malaysia - i was hoping for it. I remember visiting Typhoon, seeing F22 , if i recollect - russians were also there.

No dear, since JF is a joint venture, the Chinese weren't keen either to attend the small time show and PAF wasn't going to fund it alone so whatever else you heard was just hear say. Malaysia actually wanted for PAF/PAC to send couple of JF for evaluation....not sure what transpired.

Dont confuse between backing out of a participation versus not signing up for participation. Not signing up for participation is pure function of budget. Unlike PAK here the budget is controlled by government. But more airshows will be signed up for sure. Infact in 2022 post pandemic - participation will increase !

PAF budget is constrained, the IAF spends a hefty amount to celebrate Airforce day where as PAF has amalgamated it with defence day. In the past the IAF did participate in Chinese air show but now it seems to stay away.