Outgoing Pakistan Navy chief details procurement progress

[Penguin]

It is evident that PN is retiring Harpoon equipped Type 21's first (2 out of 3 retired) instead of those with LY-60N.

@Penguin @Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Can MRTP-33 accomodate 2x2 Harpoon instead of 1x4 Harpoon ?

As far a missiles go, yes (I would think), there's no pressing reasen to mount 2x2 and the racks can hold 2/4x2/

 

[Gryphon]

Only 2 MRTP-33 were acquired. The main issue with them was that the PN wasn't allowed to integrate the Harpoon (U.S. end-user restrictions) onto them. Efforts are now underway to arm them with an AShM, possibly Turkish (e.g. Roketsan Temren or Atmaca if/when available). At IDEAS 2016, the PN said it wanted another 4-6 FAC, and Turkey's STM offered the FAC-55 (a very fast design). However, it seems the PN will keep backing the Azmat-series, so I would reckon we'll see more Azmat (albeit more capable than earlier versions).

Exocet, Harpoon, C-602, C-802 in service. Doesn't make sense to add one more type.

Why doesn't US allow Harpoon installation on MRTP-33 while the same was done with Type 21? Both ships acquired from NATO member states.

 

[Gryphon]

Interesting, since initially PNS-Alamgir was equipped with 2X4-Hapoon Launchers.

View attachment 431401

View attachment 431402

Even Badr had 2 x 4 Launchers in some pictures:

View attachment 431403

May be the launchers are configurable depending on mission or 4 cell launcher is intended to be used elsewhere(unlikely)

As far a missiles go, yes (I would think), there's no pressing reasen to mount 2x2 and the racks can hold 2/4x2/

Over the last decade, PN has made changes to weapons configuration on Type 21's.

PNS Badr (previously with 2x2 Harpoon)

was seen with 2x4 Harpoon before being retired from PN service.

PNS Babur (previously with 2x2 Harpoon)

was seen with LY-60 before being retired from PN service.

PNS SAIF 253, PNS SHAMSHEER 252 & PNS BABUR 182


PNS Tippu Sultan (previously with LY-60)

was fitted with 2x4 Harpoon

PNS Tariq appears to have retained the original configuration i.e. LY-60

PNS Shahjahan (previously with 2x2 Harpoon)

was fitted with 2x4 Harpoon

PNS Khaibar appears to have retained the original configuration i.e. LY-60

Also, PNS Alamgir (previously with 2x2 Harpoon)

has been fitted with 2x4 Harpoon

That means 3 sets of 2x2 Harpoon are available and can be fitted to MRTP 33's, which for some reasons don't have Harpoon capability.


FMS Pakistan - HARPOON Block II Anti-ship Missiles
(Source: US Defense Security Cooperation Agency; issued May 31, 2006)

WASHINGTON --- The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress of a possible Foreign Military Sale to Pakistan of Harpoon Block II Anti-ship Missiles as well as associated equipment and services. The total value, if all options are exercised, could be as high as $370 million.

The Government of Pakistan has requested a possible sale of 50 UGM-84L (submarine-launched), 50 RGM-84L (surface-launched), and 30 AGM-84L (air-launched) Block II Harpoon missiles; 5 Encapsulated Harpoon Command Launch Systems; 115 containers; missile modifications; training devices; spare and repair parts; technical support; support equipment; personnel training and training equipment; technical data and publications; U.S. Government and contractor engineering and logistics support services; and other related elements of logistics support. The estimated cost is $370 million.

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/ar...-$370m-deal-for-harpoon-missiles-(jun-2).html

Explains the appearance of 2x4 Harpoon's on Type 21's and PNS Alamgir.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Exocet, Harpoon, C-602, C-802 in service. Doesn't make sense to add one more type.

Why doesn't US allow Harpoon installation on MRTP-33 while the same was done with Type 21? Both ships acquired from NATO member states.

It's basically what Turkish industry officials said. See the MSI IDEAS article.

 

[Gryphon]

It's basically what Turkish industry officials said. See the MSI IDEAS article.

If US won't allow Harpoon's on Turkish-made ships, what use will PN's RGM-84 versions have ?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

If US won't allow Harpoon's on Turkish-made ships, what use will PN's RGM-84 versions have ?

It's not known why the MRTP was singled out. One of the reasons could be that the specific supplier just didn't have permission to integrate the Harpoon onto that platform. Yonca Onuk JV is a smaller player.

Finding a platform for the RGM-84 could be a reason why the MILGEMs were sought, though it would require STM to have ironclad guarantees of fitting the RGM-84 onto PN ships. STM is a bigger player than Onca-Yonuk, so it might have a better chance. Anyways, the point is that the MRTP-33s were not allowed to have the Harpoon.

It's also worth remembering that the PN likely planned on fitting 6 OHP-class frigates with those RGM-84s. So the RGM-84 stock could be a reflection of that plan falling through.

 

[Gryphon]

It's not known why the MRTP was singled out. One of the reasons could be that the specific supplier just didn't have permission to integrate the Harpoon onto that platform. Yonca Onuk JV is a smaller player.

Finding a platform for the RGM-84 could be a reason why the MILGEMs were sought, though it would require STM to have ironclad guarantees of fitting the RGM-84 onto PN ships. STM is a bigger player than Onca-Yonuk, so it might have a better chance. Anyways, the point is that the MRTP-33s were not allowed to have the Harpoon.

Has Yonca / Onuk sold ships to any other customer, where it has fitted Harpoon? Onuk uploaded MRTP-33 (with Harpoon) representations on its website in 2015. Or it's more like "It's obvious Pakistan was singled out"

Regarding Milgem, I share your opinion.

 

[khanasifm]

You can add 2x2 or 4x4 Ssm launchers on the front deck behind the ak630 like on other ships the only difference will be range and duration at sea which may be 2 -3 weeks vs full blown frigate of over 2500 Ton for 3-4 weeks

I would assume pn can order/ afford 6 of these vs 4 of frigates over 2500 tons like f22p or newer bigger ones

This picture was a show and next to it was suppose to be Azmat class Missile boat

Though I believe the vls here can accommodate both Ssm and sams

Say 8 x ssm and 16 x sams

 

[Path-Finder]

What radar systems will these ships have?

 

[Gryphon]

What radar systems will these ships have?

Even the name and displacement of Chinese frigates ordered is not known.

View attachment 432544

You can add 2x2 or 4x4 Ssm launchers on the front deck behind the ak630 like on other ships the only difference will be range and duration at sea which may be 2 -3 weeks vs full blown frigate of over 2500 Ton for 3-4 weeks

I would assume pn can order/ afford 6 of these vs 4 of frigates over 2500 tons like f22p or newer bigger ones

This picture was a show and next to it was suppose to be Azmat class Missile boat

Though I believe the vls here can accommodate both Ssm and sams

Say 8 x ssm and 16 x sams

And what about the ASW capability. Torpedo ? Or something like Yu-8 ?

 

[khanasifm]

Even the name and displacement of Chinese frigates ordered is not known.



And what about the ASW capability. Torpedo ? Or something like Yu-8 ?

It’s say multi mission so torpedo tubes and hull mounted sonar can be part of it ?? Torpedo launches [emoji573] are not visible so assuming it’s somewhere on the ship he only other thing not visible is anti sub mortar like on f22p

Guess until exact specs are made available, let’s wait for someone to post news item surprise Jane’s nor any other media has not picked up on pn out going chief so each with details not sure why such secrecy

 

[khanasifm]

Jane’s nov 2016

 

[jamal18]

I really like the idea of converting relatively cheap ATR's into MPA's.

Really good example of maximizing capability on a budget.

 

[Thunder.Storm]

Herba is Air to Surface(anti-ship) Missile(Confirmed). It's first test failed they will test it again in coming months

 

[Gryphon]

It’s say multi mission so torpedo tubes and hull mounted sonar can be part of it ?? Torpedo launches [emoji573] are not visible so assuming it’s somewhere on the ship he only other thing not visible is anti sub mortar like on f22p

Guess until exact specs are made available, let’s wait for someone to post news item surprise Jane’s nor any other media has not picked up on pn out going chief so each with details not sure why such secrecy

I believe CSOC isn't offering this design anymore.