Osama bin Laden’s death: Updates & Discussions

[S.M.R]

Satellite Dish ‘Added’ To Bin Laden Compound After Dubious Videos Released by White House?

aangirfan: SATELLITE DISH ADDED TO 'OSAMA' COMPOUND?

Have they added this dish to make this out to be global command centre?

lol, well a dish that size would have looked odd.

LOL, another twist, good, its true what they say, liars don't have feet

You know what you gonna hear from the truth believers? They would say "Shut up you conspiracy theorists, the dish was lying flat on the roof at the time first pic was taken".

 

[S.M.R]

Drones monitored Osama’s compound months before May 2 assault

The CIA employed stealth drone aircraft to monitor the compound where Osama bin Laden was living.

A US newspaper claimed that using unmanned planes designed to evade radar detection and operate at high altitudes, the agency conducted clandestine flights over the compound for months before the May 2 assault in an effort to capture high-resolution video that satellites could not provide.


The aircraft allowed the CIA to glide undetected beyond the boundaries that Pakistan has long imposed on other US drones, including the Predators and Reapers that routinely carry out strikes near the border with Afghanistan.


According to the paper, the US authorities were of the view that Pakistan would have done some secret arrangement for the security of the area as the country’s nuclear plant was also located in the area. But the advanced stealth technology went undetected on Pakistani radars.





Lo ji, aur sun lo.

 

[mughaljee]

 

[F86 Saber]

Drones monitored Osama’s compound months before May 2 assault

The CIA employed stealth drone aircraft to monitor the compound where Osama bin Laden was living.

A US newspaper claimed that using unmanned planes designed to evade radar detection and operate at high altitudes, the agency conducted clandestine flights over the compound for months before the May 2 assault in an effort to capture high-resolution video that satellites could noThe aircraft allowed the CIA to glide undetected beyond the boundaries that Pakistan has long imposed on other US drones, including the Predators and Reapers that routinely carry out strikes near the border with Afghanistan.


According to the paper, the US authorities were of the view that Pakistan would have done some secret arrangement for the security of the area as the country’s nuclear plant was also located in the area. But the advanced stealth technology went undetected on Pakistani radars.





Lo ji, aur sun lo.

.
Lolzz. I guess next we will hear that the navy seals were actually Robocops that is why none of them died in the helicopter crash.... By the way I think the Radar operators in that area and Osama must have been smoking the same stuff the night before because as the Radars failed to pick up the helicopters, Osama slept through sound of five helicopters, one large explosion of the helo crash, noise of the seals blowing up his doors , firing shots and what not and was taken by surprise unarmed when the seals entered his hallway. Boy must have been some weed.

]

 

[LeGenD]

Though this was not responded to me, but i feel responsible to answer as it is a matter of national security of Pakistan..

Thank you for your contributions. I am willing to pay attention to alternate views.

Yes, we surely are doing that, looking beyond the paradigm of just satisfying scepticism (yours).. Repercussion plea is to use “fear factor” to make every questioning tongue quiet, nothing less, nothing more..

You are twisting my point. You are the skeptic here. Not me. I am exercising caution. However, I am not flattered by conspiracy theorists because none of them have offered documented evidence of OBL's fate.

Am I stupid, or are you sounding like one?? If the repercussions are going to occur regardless, then how come official position of US is justified?? They are going to happen anyway, so why not satisfy the questioning minds and get MAJORITY of world population on your side, especially the effected ones??

You did not get my point. The 'revenge attacks' after the May 2 raid by groups affiliated with OBL are actually suggesting that OBL was taken out during this raid.

Showing photos of deceased OBL may stir responsive photos from Taliban and Al-Qaeda showing US casualties, which US administration would not like to happen. Read this: Tit for tat.

In fact, if they were telling the truth, they should have called the Media and representatives of OTHER countries (Ambassadors, who live in 35 min drive, in Islamabad) to confirm the hit of OBL. These conspiracy theories had never even existed.

The US administration may have plans in place that we are not aware of. Wise thing to do is to exercise patience.

Here is another hint: Al-Qaida in the midst of fierce succession battle | World news | guardian.co.uk

Okay, we can wait till then, If US stops attacking areas of Pakistan’s territory. Do you know that, on the basis of THIS lie, they are now attacking North Waziristan? And they are threatening to go in urban areas also, if need be??

They now have a pretext to do it.

Also, on what basis militant groups are being sheltered in North Waziristan? Why they are not being taken out by our security forces?

For those of you who always blabber about “oh we cannot fight against US, technological gap is too high” etc. Let me remind you of something, there is an organization called “United Nations”, If you do NOT want to face US because you are so SCARED, then at least REGISTER YOUR COMPLAINT in UN. Has anyone from the “bayghairat” Govt. done that??

Going to UN will be useful if some of our ALLIES show willingness to support our case.

Keep in mind that US has UN mandate for taking action against Al-Qaeda and Taliban.

Keep waiting mate.. Till they knock on your door, and believe me, u wouldn’t have a proof even then..

Sign of hopelessness? Even Allah Almighty likes patience.

All word of mouth, nothing concrete! As far as AQ is concerned, can you answer why they are letting a terrorist organization run a website OPENLY??, thanks..

You never put faith on word of mouth? You always want to see the LIVE footage of events around you? Stop being so sensitive. There are some people whom you would blindly trust (hint: family members and close relatives). Am I wrong?

I would rather believe Al-Qaeda and family members of OBL captured after May 2 raid.

And why would US take action against web sources used by Al-Qaeda? Such sources are useful for US, since its intelligence sources can get useful information from them.

This senator has been well known for his support for Anti-Pakistan, Anti-Islamic and Pro-Israel approach.. Check his name on Wikipedia along with all the information out there, for confirmation

You have a problem with every senator of US, it seems.

No, there are millions of others, just like me, by the looks of it, you are not one of them.

They need to exercise patience as well.

And even if US administration releases photos of OBL, conspiracy theorists will still come up with excuses to discredit them.

I am expecting one like this actually: "Oh they artificially reconstructed the face of the dead guy like OBL, since they took lot of time to release these photos."

My point is that you cannot satisfy the entire world in current times. People will believe in what they want to believe. Understand?

Just a question mate.. How do you ACCEPT every word of mouth from US but not from IRAN??? Mind giving me an answer?? Or as usual you gonna skip it like other pro-US members?

I don't accept every word of mouth from US and neither from Iran. You cannot expect Iran to make neutral judgments in case of US due to obvious reasons.

However, Ahmadinejad's account of fate of OBL is not much different from the account of a daughter of OBL in custody of Pak security forces currently.

Again, using the fear factor, mate.. as I have mentioned above, there is an organization called UN, which was SPECIFICALLY created to support “weaker” countries (though I don’t accept Pakistan is) against “stronger” countries. Ever heard of it??

See above.

Besides, If push comes to shove, and war with US is eminent, then we’ll happily go for it, let me remind you that US is not in a situation to wage a new war, it will collapse! (reality check!).

Oh really?

Some reality check for you: Operation Odyssey Dawn

Stop fooling yourself.

Do consider other “ground realities” also. Looking at your profile, you live in Pakistan, just a question, have you ever been abroad? Or if you have, have you traveled “recently”? don’t take it personal please, ground realities are totally different from what is being portrayed in Pakistan by Western, Indian and some Pro-Pakistani Media..

Yes, I have lived abroad for several years. Ground realities in Pakistan are indeed different from what a typical Pakistani citizen wishes to project with skeptical attitudes.

US is on the verge of bankruptcy.. Economically it has gone down the drain, no department is stabilize at the moment, people are suffering, low health service, low social service, low education service, infrastructure is also getting destroyed cuz of lack of budget, etc. etc. etc.. These are ground realities.. and a country that is in such situation CANNOT go in to another war.. Its own people are gonna retaliate against it..

And Pakistan is economically flourishing?

I will repeat: US is far far stronger then Pakistan.

Here is a link for you

News flash for you: Global Recession

Problems like these will take time to address. Recession is part of economic cycle. This is not the FIRST US recession.

But how can Pakistani citizens understand this? We never had a functioning economy in the first place.

My friend, OBL’s family is not the issue, there is NO law ANYWHERE which states that you can put family members of a criminal on trial.. so OBL’s family can live anywhere (not that I am accepting that they were living there, it also might be a hoax too, they haven’t been shown to us, just “word of mouth”)..

Face palm

You don't trust Pakistani security forces either.

Explain to me this: why were inhabitants of raided home in Abbottabad so secretive? What was there to hide?

My question is.. Where is the proof that OBL was there? Where is the proof that he was killed there?? If that is not confirmed, then everything else is BS!

Here is another solution: request the Pakistani security forces to allow you to question wives of OBL in their custody. I hope they can give a satisfactory answer.

Responded above, If personal satisfaction to you, means fighting for one’s own country, then yes, you can call us sceptics.

New flash: you and your fellow skeptics are victims of rifts between CIA and ISI

That’s the whole point.. how are you so sure that they killed him there?? Evidence which we are talking about is all contradictory statements by those goons, faked videos, faked pictures, faked audios, lies upon lies upon lies.. you don’t need to be Aristotle to know it’s all a sham, yeah one needs to be logically challenged to accept them..

Every one is lying. Only you are speaking the truth. Keep up the good work.

Fate of OBL is that he died, the question is, did he die in THAT mansion in Abbottabad? No evident proof supports that claim.. PERIOD.. and if there is no proof, then the only verdict in public court is.. US is guilty of lying and deceit, OBL was NOT there, It was ALL a sham to create reason to invade Pakistan (a sovereign state).. Hence the verdict.. case closed!!

Hints came and are still coming from several independent sources. If you are blind enough to ignore them, then we can't help you.

 

[AAtish]

Thank you for your contributions. I am willing to pay attention to alternate views.

Your welcome, but it seems that “pay attention” portion represent just reading.

You are twisting my point. You are the skeptic here. Not me. I am exercising caution. However, I am not flattered by conspiracy theorists because none of them have offered documented evidence of OBL's fate.

Neither am I flattered by this because no one has offered documented evidence of OBL’s fate.. and their “official story” has been changing minute-by-minute..

You did not get my point. The 'revenge attacks' after the May 2 raid by groups affiliated with OBL are actually suggesting that OBL was taken out during this raid.

No, YOU did not get my point, There are two possible scenarios (call me conspiracy theorist again):

1. That Osama bin laden was dead long ago and “both” sides were keeping it a secret for their personal reason, AQ for recruitment reason and US for invasion reason.. now that the cat is out of hat (doesn’t matter if he died in Abbottabad or not) US is gaining and AQ is losing on cashing out in the name of OBL. or

2. Now, that US and AQ are “working together” for “common goals” in Syria and Libya, it might be a “setup” to satisfy “questioning minds”, US is trying hard recently, without provided the ORIGINAL account of what happened.

The question still stays the same: Was OBL killed in THAT mansion in Abbottabad?

Showing photos of deceased OBL may stir responsive photos from Taliban and Al-Qaeda showing US casualties, which US administration would not like to happen. Read this: Tit for tat.

You should send this reason to Obama, cuz he haven’t mentioned this yet, all he said was that it is going to stir revenge attacks, and its not how we work (though they displayed pics of Saddam and his sons for weeks).. Maybe they are not as smart as you are.

The US administration may have plans in place that we are not aware of. Wise thing to do is to exercise patience.

Here is another hint: Al-Qaida in the midst of fierce succession battle | World news | guardian.co.uk

Oh yeah, that I agree to, that is the SOLE reason I want to scrutinize the validity of this event. Hidden plans of US are never something good.. Look at the history of US..

They now have a pretext to do it.

And what it might be?.. Hold on.. If you are going to say OBL’s killing in Abbottabad, then you should throw a punch at your head, right now!

Also, on what basis militant groups are being sheltered in North Waziristan? Why they are not being taken out by our security forces?

I’m sorry, you location is written as Lahore, but I highly doubt that you are from there, otherwise, you’d had been to northern areas ONCE in your life, Guns, they are like their second skin, so, Obviously they are going to be armed, and If you kill an armed person, their tribe is NEVER going to forgive you.. that’s their LAW.. Do you think they are not going to retaliate against 34000 killings? I NEVER heard of TTP before drone attacks, not even when AQ and AT were world renowned.

Going to UN will be useful if some of our ALLIES show willingness to support our case.

I guess you should really take some logical and political lessons (from neutral teachers).. your ALLIES have NO base to support you right now!!.. You haven’t COMPLAINED even ONCE for anything, what should they support????

Keep in mind that US has UN mandate for taking action against Al-Qaeda and Taliban.

Al-Qaeda and Taliban, it never said Invasion of Sovereign Countries, and killing Civilians, I guess the mandate which you are so confidently referring to, you haven’t even “seen” it, let alone reading it.. Here for your help I’ll provide it to you.. Link and here is how it is mis-interpreted.. Link

Both the links justify YOUR “truth” standards..
1. They are written by non-Pakistanis,
2. They are not in Urdu, so means “they are more Authentic”

Sign of hopelessness? Even Allah Almighty likes patience.

Allah Almighty likes patience when it is first time, do you not remember “A momin cannot be stung by same hole twice?”.. Why do you tend for forget “rest of Islam” when referring out-of-context portions or Quran or Hadees?? Allah also says that, Help will be provided IF you try to help yourself only..

You never put faith on word of mouth? You always want to see the LIVE footage of events around you? Stop being so sensitive. There are some people whom you would blindly trust (hint: family members and close relatives). Am I wrong?

I would rather believe Al-Qaeda and family members of OBL captured after May 2 raid.

First of all, neither AQ nor OBL's family is MY family, so I WILL question the AUTHENTICITY.. Secondly, PA is under Political stress right now, and thirdly, I am sorry mate, you are living in dream land.. for your correction, you haven’t heard from either one of them, have you??

And why would US take action against web sources used by Al-Qaeda? Such sources are useful for US, since its intelligence sources can get useful information from them.

So they wait years to collect intelligence, allowing AQ to recruit thousands of suicide bombers during that time? Aren’t they intelligent. Or are you and your kind the opposite?

You have a problem with every senator of US, it seems.

I have problem with ANY unauthenticated source, and I HATE liars and deceiters..

They need to exercise patience as well.

And even if US administration releases photos of OBL, conspiracy theorists will still come up with excuses to discredit them.

I am expecting one like this actually: "Oh they artificially reconstructed the face of the dead guy like OBL, since they took lot of time to release these photos."

My point is that you cannot satisfy the entire world in current times. People will believe in what they want to believe. Understand?

Oh wow!! Tell me honestly, are you really not on the payroll of CIA? Paving the way for them before-hand..

Let me remind you of Saddam Hussain.. He is NOT considered as “shaheed” right now, you know why? Cuz he was “properly” prosecuted.. OBL is becoming a “shaheed” by what US did..

And I give a sh!t if OBL is shaheed or not, all that matters to me is for US to provide evidence that he was killed in THAT mansion in Abbottabad, Pakistan..

I don't accept every word of mouth from US and neither from Iran. You cannot expect Iran to make neutral judgments in case of US due to obvious reasons.

Bold part.. I highly doubt that.. Haven’t seen you throw a question for all these events, you just accepted it on the face value, and now you are willing to wait rest of your life for the truth to come out.. Funny!

However, Ahmadinejad's account of fate of OBL is not much different from the account of a daughter of OBL in custody of Pak security forces currently.

Elaborate this!

Oh really?

Some reality check for you: Operation Odyssey Dawn

Stop fooling yourself.

Oh really? So you mean to say that you take Libya and Pakistan on same level? Even the internal situation? Here’s the reality check for you mate, In Libya, US has to just “support” the protesters (AQ ), in Pakistan, if they went to war, they’ll have to fight 180 odd million people.. A handful of Taliban dragged it for 10 years, we can drag them for at least 50.. Now do the calculation!

Yes, I have lived abroad for several years. Ground realities in Pakistan are indeed different from what a typical Pakistani citizen wishes to project with skeptical attitudes.

You are a typical example of “highly brainwashed” person.. Need I say more? Here we are not talking about “ground realities” in Pakistan.. In case you forgot, we are talking about ground realities in US..

And Pakistan is economically flourishing?

Have I claimed it anywhere in my post??

I will repeat: US is far far stronger then Pakistan.

So? What are you trying to imply by this? read my response above in this very post..

News flash for you: Global Recession

Problems like these will take time to address. Recession is part of economic cycle. This is not the FIRST US recession.

But how can Pakistani citizens understand this? We never had a functioning economy in the first place.

In case you forgot.. IT DOES EFFECT US.. Pakistan has nothing to lose anymore, we are already in dire situation, on the contrary US has loads to lose, and let me remind you another thing, its difficult to handle HUGE chunk of Individual states..

Face palm

Right back at you.. (just for the heck of it )

You don't trust Pakistani security forces either.

Play chess mate, play chess.. it’ll teach you a lot of things.. A sitting with System Analysts, Planners, Designers and Implementers will also help..

Explain to me this: why were inhabitants of raided home in Abbottabad so secretive? What was there to hide?

They might be OBL’s family, might be some other AQ’s family, might even be a conservative family all together..who knows.. who cares?..

Family is NOT in question.. OBL’s death in that mansion IS..

Here is another solution: request the Pakistani security forces to allow you to question wives of OBL in their custody. I hope they can give a satisfactory answer.

Now you are being childish mate.. The burden of proof stays with Claimant.. and that’s US.. until it is proven, no case, thus no reason to exhaust personal resources.. No irrefutable proof, no kill, no case, end of story.. It’s a LIE, another Deceit from US, another doctored reason to invade a country.. PERIOD!! until PROVEN otherwise..

New flash: you and your fellow skeptics are victims of rifts between CIA and ISI

News Flash: You and your fellow
Living in dream world

Mate! You are continuously using the word skeptic (sceptic) in your posts.. Here’s its meanings for you, in case you are just using it cuz you heard it somewhere..

Sceptic: ("philosophical sceptic"). Philosophical sceptics deny (to varying extents) knowledge. They do not require evidence before believing because they do not accept that evidence strengthens the proposition.

Me and MY “kind” are continuously asking for evidence, we are not believing ANYTHING, but exercising the world renowned law of “innocent until PROVEN guilty”..

And why are we doing it? Why we are shouting so much? Why we are not letting it go? Why we are not waiting? CUZ we DO NOT want OUR country to be another IRAQ or Afghanistan.. got my point?

Every one is lying. Only you are speaking the truth. Keep up the good work.

Every ONE is lying until they PROVE otherwise, and YES we are speaking the truth, Hard realities on the basis of Past experiences.. We DO NOT just accept cuz BIG BOSS said it.. we question the AUTHENTICITY of claimant.. and excuse my scepticism .. US IS A CONFIRMED LIAR!

Hints came and are still coming from several independent sources. If you are blind enough to ignore them, then we can't help you.

My question to you is, why do you accept “hints” from one side and not from other??

Anyways, I think you are either just too ignorant or too happy in whatever YOU are getting out of promoting your confused thinking.. Ground reality is that the invasion of Pakistan’s territory has increased AFTER this event, both countries are going on the brink of an all out war.. I really hope that it doesn’t happen.. I hope that sanity prevails..

As for you my friend, I am done beating around the bushes, If you have any concrete evidence, put it up, otherwise, go into your dreamland where everything is A.OK.

 

[S.M.R]

Sorry for being offtopic, but i could not stop my laugh while reading below.

Both the links justify YOUR “truth” standards..
1. They are written by non-Pakistanis,
2. They are not in Urdu, so means “they are more Authentic”

 

[LeGenD]

Your welcome, but it seems that “pay attention” portion represent just reading.

It involves critical evaluation as well.

Neither am I flattered by this because no one has offered documented evidence of OBL’s fate.. and their “official story” has been changing minute-by-minute..

Operation Neptune Spear was intended to be a top secret mission. The chopper incident forced the US administration to come clean, partially at least. With passage of time, the entire picture of that event will become clearer and clearer.

No, YOU did not get my point, There are two possible scenarios (call me conspiracy theorist again):

1. That Osama bin laden was dead long ago and “both” sides were keeping it a secret for their personal reason, AQ for recruitment reason and US for invasion reason.. now that the cat is out of hat (doesn’t matter if he died in Abbottabad or not) US is gaining and AQ is losing on cashing out in the name of OBL. or

2. Now, that US and AQ are “working together” for “common goals” in Syria and Libya, it might be a “setup” to satisfy “questioning minds”, US is trying hard recently, without provided the ORIGINAL account of what happened.

You make it sound like as if US and AQ are ALLIES and this entire WOT is topi drama. Reality check: US has targeted AQ networks in several countries by now. Yes, You are a conspiracy theorist.

The question still stays the same: Was OBL killed in THAT mansion in Abbottabad?

Their is one way for you to find out; request Pak administration to allow you to question the wives and children of OBL who were living in that raided mansion, and are now under the custody of Pak security forces. Why don't you take advantage of this opportunity?

Sitting at home and asking questions will do you no good.

You should send this reason to Obama, cuz he haven’t mentioned this yet, all he said was that it is going to stir revenge attacks, and its not how we work (though they displayed pics of Saddam and his sons for weeks).. Maybe they are not as smart as you are.

Improve your searching skills: Osama Bin Laden Pictures Will Not Be Released, Obama Decides (UPDATED)

In case of Saddam and his sons, it was decision of Bush administration to show evidence of their deaths/executions to the world.

The Obama administration thinks differently.

Oh yeah, that I agree to, that is the SOLE reason I want to scrutinize the validity of this event. Hidden plans of US are never something good.. Look at the history of US..

Fine by me.

And what it might be?.. Hold on.. If you are going to say OBL’s killing in Abbottabad, then you should throw a punch at your head, right now!

And why would I punch myself? Independent sources (i.e., AQ, captured family members of OBL, Pak top brass, Administrations of other nations) have verified that OBL was taken out during ONS in Abbottabad.

I also want to see photos of dead OBL. Thus far, I believe that he is gone. Independent sources have verified that he was taken out during ONS in Abbottabad. The official version is being supported in this case. I am willing to excercise patience until the entire saga comes to light, which will eventually. Only time will tell that what really happened.

You are welcome to punch yourself instead.

I’m sorry, you location is written as Lahore, but I highly doubt that you are from there, otherwise, you’d had been to northern areas ONCE in your life, Guns, they are like their second skin, so, Obviously they are going to be armed, and If you kill an armed person, their tribe is NEVER going to forgive you.. that’s their LAW.. Do you think they are not going to retaliate against 34000 killings? I NEVER heard of TTP before drone attacks, not even when AQ and AT were world renowned.

Now I am confident that you and "your kind" should not be trusted. You assume too much and that too prematurely. And I have been to Northern areas.

I am not talking about gun culture in Tribal regions. My point is that Tribal regions have served as safe havens for non-state actors for a long time. This is why military operations in Tribal regions have been conducted for several years. And this is why Drone attacks have been occurring in Tribal regions for several years. Now some militant groups are freely roaming in North Waziristan, and our top brass is doing nothing about it. Why?

Regarding TTP, check following sources:

http://belfercenter.ksg.harvard.edu/files/CTC Sentinel - Profile of Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan.pdf

http://www.diis.dk/graphics/Publications/Reports2010/RP2010-12-Tehrik-e-Taliban_web.pdf

Designations of Tehrik-e Taliban Pakistan and Two Senior Leaders

http://articles..com/articles/-Worl...sm/Tehrik-eTaliban-Pakistan-TTP-Pakistan.html

Also, ever heard about Baitullah Mehsud? (A TTP leader famous for his victories against Pakistani security forces in several fronts)

And now even Punjabi Taliban has emerged:

MEMRI: Rahimullah Yusufzai on Punjabi Taliban

I guess you should really take some logical and political lessons (from neutral teachers).. your ALLIES have NO base to support you right now!!.. You haven’t COMPLAINED even ONCE for anything, what should they support????

My ALLIES? I have no stakes in the affair of OBL. However, I intend to keep open mind and pay attention to views of all sides. I want US administration to release photos of OBL. However, I am willing to excercise patience and am not in to making premature assumptions and promoting conspiracy theories like you.

Al-Qaeda and Taliban, it never said Invasion of Sovereign Countries, and killing Civilians, I guess the mandate which you are so confidently referring to, you haven’t even “seen” it, let alone reading it.. Here for your help I’ll provide it to you.. Link and here is how it is mis-interpreted.. Link

Thanks for the links but they were not required. I can get relevant information by myself.

I acknowledge that CIA sponsored attacks in Pakistan are illegal but who gave them tacit approval in the first place?

Both the links justify YOUR “truth” standards..
1. They are written by non-Pakistanis,
2. They are not in Urdu, so means “they are more Authentic”

See above.

I do not condone killing of innocent civilians. I fully understand the pain of innocent civilians, who became victims of CIA sponsored attacks inside Pakistan. However, .............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................. (I will give you a chance to fill in the blanks here)

Allah Almighty likes patience when it is first time, do you not remember “A momin cannot be stung by same hole twice?”.. Why do you tend for forget “rest of Islam” when referring out-of-context portions or Quran or Hadees?? Allah also says that, Help will be provided IF you try to help yourself only..

I did not quoted any Quranic verse. Just mentioned a FACT. Are you suffering from GOING-OUT-OF-CONTEXT syndrome? Seems like you actually do.

First of all, neither AQ nor OBL's family is MY family, so I WILL question the AUTHENTICITY..

OBL's family is an AUTHENTIC source for OBL. Don't you think?

Secondly, PA is under Political stress right now, and thirdly, I am sorry mate, you are living in dream land.. for your correction, you haven’t heard from either one of them, have you??

You are actually living in some la-la land, not me. You are questioning the authenticity of INDEPENDENT SOURCES on fate of OBL, and promoting differing accounts on fate of OBL. Therefore, the onus of proof to support your CLAIMS/ACCOUNTS is on YOU. If you have 'concrete evidence', which can destroy the credibility of US administration and corroborating INDEPENDENT SOURCES on fate of OBL, then present it here.

So they wait years to collect intelligence, allowing AQ to recruit thousands of suicide bombers during that time? Aren’t they intelligent. Or are you and your kind the opposite?

US forces have managed to take out and capture lots of AQ recruits since 9/11.

I have problem with ANY unauthenticated source, and I HATE liars and deceiters..

You have problem with authenticated sources as well.

You hate liars and deceiters, and yet you are willing to believe in conspiracy theorists. Well done.

Oh wow!! Tell me honestly, are you really not on the payroll of CIA? Paving the way for them before-hand..

You need to get your brain examined by a doctor. A sincere advice from me.

Let me remind you of Saddam Hussain.. He is NOT considered as “shaheed” right now, you know why? Cuz he was “properly” prosecuted.. OBL is becoming a “shaheed” by what US did..

Saddam's case was handled by BUSH. Osama's case is being handled by OBAMA.

And no one in a right state of mind would declare a terrorist a SHAHEED. Stop defending those who protested over his death.

And I give a sh!t if OBL is shaheed or not, all that matters to me is for US to provide evidence that he was killed in THAT mansion in Abbottabad, Pakistan..

Then wait for it, instead of promoting conspiracy theories.

Bold part.. I highly doubt that.. Haven’t seen you throw a question for all these events, you just accepted it on the face value, and now you are willing to wait rest of your life for the truth to come out.. Funny!

The truth will eventually come out. It is state policy in US to reveal classified information after a span of 3 decades. However, OBL is gone. This is what is IMPORTANT. And he has been taken out in Pakistan, as per prominent sources. What is so strange about this? Lots of terrorists have been captured from various places in Pakistan in the PAST. These social rejects ran away from battlefield in Afghanistan and sought refuge in Pakistan. You should be more concerned about these illegal elements in Pakistan.

Elaborate this!

Operation Odyssey Dawn

Oh really? So you mean to say that you take Libya and Pakistan on same level? Even the internal situation? Here’s the reality check for you mate, In Libya, US has to just “support” the protesters (AQ ), in Pakistan, if they went to war, they’ll have to fight 180 odd million people.. A handful of Taliban dragged it for 10 years, we can drag them for at least 50.. Now do the calculation!

Keep on dreaming.

Out of those 180 million people, a small percentage is fit for fighting. 50% of the population is made up of women, who know more about cloths and fashion then fighting. And then their are those, who are willing to take advantage of outside inteference to further their cause (hint: liberation movements).

Keep on dreaming.

You are a typical example of “highly brainwashed” person.. Need I say more? Here we are not talking about “ground realities” in Pakistan.. In case you forgot, we are talking about ground realities in US..

Enlighten me about ground realities in US.

And you being proven to be a highly brainwashed person, want to call others the same who disagree with you. What an irony.

Have I claimed it anywhere in my post??

Then stop dreaming about defeating US in a hypothetical war. You have no idea about HORRORS of warfare, and what a full-scale conflict would do our nation.

So? What are you trying to imply by this? read my response above in this very post..

Giving you a reality check. Hard for you to digest?

In case you forgot.. IT DOES EFFECT US.. Pakistan has nothing to lose anymore, we are already in dire situation, on the contrary US has loads to lose, and let me remind you another thing, its difficult to handle HUGE chunk of Individual states..

US has demonstrated the capability to tackle several states simultaneously in WOT. Open your eyes.

And Pakistan still has considerable level of infrastructure, economic material, and strategic interests. Do not presume that we do not have to loose much.

Shortsighted hone ki bhee eik haadh hoti hai.

Right back at you.. (just for the heck of it )

Probably the best you can do.

Play chess mate, play chess.. it’ll teach you a lot of things.. A sitting with System Analysts, Planners, Designers and Implementers will also help..

You will teach me lot of things? You need lot of teaching instead.

They might be OBL’s family, might be some other AQ’s family, might even be a conservative family all together..who knows.. who cares?..

Lot of people care.

Family is NOT in question.. OBL’s death in that mansion IS..

Those family members are being questioned. Their confession matters to investigators.

Now you are being childish mate.. The burden of proof stays with Claimant.. and that’s US.. until it is proven, no case, thus no reason to exhaust personal resources.. No irrefutable proof, no kill, no case, end of story.. It’s a LIE, another Deceit from US, another doctored reason to invade a country.. PERIOD!! until PROVEN otherwise..

A convenient way to dodge my point. Nothing else.

Mate! You are continuously using the word skeptic (sceptic) in your posts.. Here’s its meanings for you, in case you are just using it cuz you heard it somewhere..

Sceptic: ("philosophical sceptic"). Philosophical sceptics deny (to varying extents) knowledge. They do not require evidence before believing because they do not accept that evidence strengthens the proposition.

That worsens your credibility in my eyes.

Me and MY “kind” are continuously asking for evidence, we are not believing ANYTHING, but exercising the world renowned law of “innocent until PROVEN guilty”..

But are willing to accept conspiracy theories. A new form of FITNA in other words because these theories also rely on blatant manipulation and deceptive techniques.

It is OK to ask for evidence. But it is stupid to ignore reliable independent sources.

And why are we doing it? Why we are shouting so much? Why we are not letting it go? Why we are not waiting? CUZ we DO NOT want OUR country to be another IRAQ or Afghanistan.. got my point?

That is fair. However, your approach is WRONG. Belief in conspiracy theories will not solve our problems. Such theories will only sow more confusion among our already MISLED nation.

Every ONE is lying until they PROVE otherwise, and YES we are speaking the truth, Hard realities on the basis of Past experiences.. We DO NOT just accept cuz BIG BOSS said it.. we question the AUTHENTICITY of claimant.. and excuse my scepticism .. US IS A CONFIRMED LIAR!

Most of the conspiracy theories also come from Americans. CONFIRMED LIARS indeed. EXPERT MANIPULATORS as well. Please spare us your hypocricy.

My question to you is, why do you accept “hints” from one side and not from other??

I give priority to "hints" from (reliable) INDEPENDENT sources. Furthermore, I wait for things to get clearer before forming my opinion.

Anyways, I think you are either just too ignorant or too happy in whatever YOU are getting out of promoting your confused thinking.. Ground reality is that the invasion of Pakistan’s territory has increased AFTER this event, both countries are going on the brink of an all out war.. I really hope that it doesn’t happen.. I hope that sanity prevails..

Pakistani administration is not interested in waging a war against USA. Neither USAF has commenced any AWE and SHOCK kind of operation inside Pakistan. Nor American forces are patrolling streets of Pakistani cities. And none of this will expected, if we manage to put our HOUSE in ORDER.

What is important for Pakistani citizens (in general) is to stop day dreaming and do some serious reality checking. This nation is in dire need of an internal revolution in EDUCATIONAL sense. Only then this nation will realize its mistakes and correct itself. Otherwise.... We can also expect wrath of Allah Almighty in addition to potential ARMAGGEDDON from USA. Warnings in the form of powerful earthquakes and floods have already been issued.

As for you my friend, I am done beating around the bushes, If you have any concrete evidence, put it up, otherwise, go into your dreamland where everything is A.OK.

This advice suits you perfectly. Please comply.

 

[AAtish]

You make it sound like as if US and AQ are ALLIES and this entire WOT is topi drama. US has targeted AQ networks in several countries.

Proof it otherwise..

rest of your mail has already been answered before.. repeating will be redundant.. If you haven't understood first time, you won't do it second time either..

I just pray that Pakistan doesn't go into hands such as yours..

Enough said!

Peacing out!!

 

[LeGenD]

Proof it otherwise..

I don't need to. You consider WOT as some topi drama. You prove your assertion.

For now, some examples for you:

US kills al-Qaeda 'number three' - Central & South Asia - Al Jazeera English

US drone attack kills al-Qaeda members in Yemen - Telegraph

FT.com / Asia-Pacific - US drone kills al-Qaeda commander

US kills al-Qaida target in Somalia helicopter assault | World news | The Guardian

US drone strike kills 'al-Qaeda commander' - Times Online

U.S. officials: CIA kills top al Qaeda terrorist in Pakistan - CNN

Al-Qaida chief al-Zarqawi killed

rest of your mail has already been answered before.. repeating will be redundant.. If you haven't understood first time, you won't do it second time either..

I will not fall for consipracy theories. I have done some self-analysis before.

I just pray that Pakistan doesn't go into hands such as yours..

Enough said!

Peacing out!!

And I pray that Pakistan does not goes in to hands of conspiracy theorists like you. That would be the end of this already MISLED nation.

 

[AAtish]

I don't need to. You consider WOT as some topi drama. You prove your assertion.

For now, some examples for you:

US kills al-Qaeda 'number three' - Central & South Asia - Al Jazeera English

US drone attack kills al-Qaeda members in Yemen - Telegraph

FT.com / Asia-Pacific - US drone kills al-Qaeda commander

US kills al-Qaida target in Somalia helicopter assault | World news | The Guardian

US drone strike kills 'al-Qaeda commander' - Times Online

U.S. officials: CIA kills top al Qaeda terrorist in Pakistan - CNN

Al-Qaida chief al-Zarqawi killed


I will not fall for consipracy theories. I have done some self-analysis before.


And I pray that Pakistan does not goes in to hands of conspiracy theorists like you. That would be the end of this already MISLED nation.

As i said before, you're not gonna accept.. neither am i gonna accept what you are saying.. as you said.. you have done some self-analysis.. i'm a System's Analyst by profession for last 20 odd years.. so lets see.. according to you we have to wait 3 decades.. Hope Pakistan survives that long (insha Allah).. but i won't stop asking questions until i get answers.. i will not let this die down.. cuz thats WHAT happened with 9/11.. it died down and everyone accepted OBL and AQ to be responsible for it.. without any proof..

 

[LeGenD]

As i said before, you're not gonna accept.. neither am i gonna accept what you are saying.. as you said.. you have done some self-analysis.. i'm a System's Analyst by profession for last 20 odd years.. so lets see.. according to you we have to wait 3 decades.. Hope Pakistan survives that long (insha Allah).. but i won't stop asking questions until i get answers.. i will not this die down.. cuz thats WHAT happened with 9/11.. it died down and everyone accepted OBL and AQ to be responsible for it.. without any proof..

This is sad. My intention is always to help people reach some meaningful conclusion.

Anyways! You have the right to ask questions. I back you for this.

However, do not FALL for conspiracy theories. Just keep an open mind. A friendly advice from me.

Good luck in your endeavors.

 

[AAtish]

This is sad. My intention is always to help people reach some meaningful conclusion.

Anyways! You have the right to ask questions. I back you for this.

However, do not FALL for conspiracy theories. Just keep an open mind. A friendly advice from me.

Good luck in your endeavors.

Honestly speaking, there is a trend on this forum which irritates me the most.. people tend to give links to "articles" as authentic resources.. whereas, they are merely opinion of writers.. Analysis depends upon documented proof, circumstantial evidence, information gathering from qualitative approach (sometimes quantitative) and then deducing result from it Logically.. Logic dictates, if something is done then WHY is it done?.. reasons?.. not parrot talk..

The most important question right now is.. If for argument's sake, we accept that OBL was killed in THAT mansion in Abbottabad.. what would be the possible consequences? Can you give me the possible answers?.. You said, you did the self-analysis also..

Lets have an analytical approach.. shall we?

 

[arsalabbasi]

How is it possible, its really very odd did the world close eyes & accept everything what USA is saying ??

 

[LeGenD]

Osama bin Laden praises Arab spring in posthumously released tape

Bin Laden praises protest movements across Middle East and predicts revolutions will spread

A tape recorded by Osama bin Laden before his death in a US special forces raid earlier this month has been released posthumously onto Islamist militant websites.

The message, recorded some time in the 10 weeks before the 54-year-old al-Qaida leader was killed in Pakistan on 2 May, praises the Arab spring protest movements across the Middle East and predicts that revolutions will spread.

"I think that the winds of change will blow over the entire Muslim world, God willing," Bin Laden said in the 12-minute clip.

The video message contains only an audio track and an old photo of the terrorist leader, probably indicating it was designed to be edited with images but that al-Qaida media technicians were either unable to do so or that a decision was taken to upload the tape quickly.

The senior al-Qaida leadership was caught out by the unrest in the Arab World this spring and had difficulty framing an effective response to an outpouring of enthusiasm for democracy and pluralism.

In deposing President Hosni Mubarak in Egypt and Zine al-Abidine Ben Ali in Tunisia, protesters achieved fundamental aims of al-Qaida without violence.

In the recording, Bin Laden accused rulers in the Middle East of building themselves into idols and manipulating the media to stay in power.

Al-Qaida figures have frequently blamed the media for the failure of the majority of Muslims to heed its call to arms.

"So, what are you waiting for?" Bin Laden asked in the most recent tape. "Save yourselves and your children, because the opportunity is here."

Bin Laden, who is thought to have been living in a three-storey house in the northern Pakistani town of Abbottabad for up to five years, spoke in highly rhetorical language and avoided the more violent or apocalyptic language of many previous statements.

A full transcript of the tape is yet to be made available but Bin Laden appears not to have threatened the west directly as has previously often been the case.

"Let the truth ring out," he told listeners. "Remember those that go out with a sword are true believers, those that go fight with their tongue are true believers, and those that fight in their hearts are true believers."

He said "the sun of the revolution has risen from the Maghreb".

"The light of the revolution came from Tunisia. It has given the nation tranquillity and made the faces of the people happy," al-Jazeera, the Qatar-based TV channel reported Bin Laden saying in the tape.

Bin Laden's close associate, the Egyptian Ayman al-Zawahiri, has already issued statements about the unrest as has senior figures in al-Qaida affiliate groups, such as that based in the Yemen.

In the internet-published magazine Inspire, extremists welcomed the uprisings as opening the door to radical Islam.

Bin Laden attributed to problems of the region to "ignorance of Islam" and said the revolts had "made the rulers worried".

"Tunisia was the first but swiftly the knights of Egypt have taken a spark from the free people of Tunisia to Tahrir Square. This wasn't a revolution of starving and pain, but a revolution of giving and peace," the Saudi-born fugitive said.

Bin Laden called on followers to act immediately: "A delay may cause the opportunity to be lost, and carrying it out before the right time will increase the number of casualties."

The recording was widely expected. It was released to jihadist websites by al-Qaida's media arm, al-Sahab.

Scores of recordings were found in the home in Abbottabad where Bin Laden lived.

President Barack Obama is to make a major speech on the Middle East on Thursday.

Source: Osama bin Laden praises Arab spring in posthumously released tape | World news | guardian.co.uk