Osama bin Laden’s death: Updates & Discussions

[AAtish]

Take that advice for yourself.

You, I, and all others (general audience) are being kept in the DARK by US administration about the event of May 2. Our knowledge is based on what is being projected through MEDIA sources thus far.

So it is not wise to jump to premature conclusions. Several sources (besides US) have verified the fate of OBL. He is gone. Al-Qaeda confirmed it; captured OBL family members confirmed it; And others are also accepting this. With passage of time, the picture will get clearer.

If OBL was alive, he would have let the WORLD know by now. Yet no sign of him.

Try to come out from the gloomy web set by conspiracy theorists and you will learn the virtue of PATIENCE.

Honestly, REALLY, take my advice instead of giving it back to me.

That is the whole point, You, I, and all others (general audience) are being kept in the DARK by US administration, same was as we were kept in the DARK for 9/11 and IRAQ WMDs. We are suffering since then!! and i do NOT wish to suffer further, nor i wish MY country to be invaded on "projected" picture.. as they say TAKE THE BULL BY THE HORN!! why wait?? a decade's wait hasn't brought proof of 9/11 out..

So it is not wise to jump to premature conclusions. The sources (besides US) are relaying what US said, and every one has their own agenda.. So IF you have irrefutable proof of his death then come clean, otherwise, US is a confirmed liar and deceiter.

Further to your theory, the question is not if OBL is dead or alive, he is dead, has been for long time, the question is IF he was killed in THAT "mansion" in Abbottabad, Pakistan!!. That is the whole basis of propaganda against Pakistan.

Try to come out of your virtual life and face the reality, on the basis of lies, they invaded two countries, and on the basis of lies again, they are killing innocent civilians in MY country. If you are a Pakistani, wake up from drunken buzz and face the harsh reality, US Govt. is friends to no one, not even their OWN citizen.

As far as burden of proof is concerned (which was your response to bilalhaider) let me give you an example.. If you claim that you have conquered Mount Everest, people will "laugh" at you until you SHOW them YOUR pictures with a flag ON Mount Everest. Got my point? let me clear it for you, burden of proof stays on CLAIMANT..

Anyways, there is an age old saying "Ignorance is a bliss"..

Just my two cents..

 

[niaz]

Don’t know what would make my countrymen to realize that by believing in all those conspiracy theories, we are behaving like a nation full of Ostriches who covers his head in sand to avoid facing the truth. Urdu media in particular is guilty of distorting the truth to no end. Following was published in today's Dawn:

The truth is outKamran Shafi
(15 hours ago) TodayBUT the denial goes on to confound the hapless people of this hapless country, in the hope that in all the noise and confusion of conspiracy theory upon conspiracy theory, the enormity of the catastrophe this country has just faced will lessen in the public’s memory.

The Deep State probably learnt well from Adolf Hitler who says in Mein Kampf: “Propaganda must not investigate the truth objectively … and present only that aspect of the truth which is favourable to its own side … the receptive powers of the masses are very restricted, and their understanding is feeble … they [also] quickly forget … effective propaganda must be confined to a few bare essentials and those must be expressed as far as possible in stereotyped formulas … slogans should be persistently repeated until the very last individual has come to grasp the idea that has been put forward….”

Some conspiracy theorists and Deep State propagandists continue to question America’s claim that Osama was killed in
Abbottabad on the night of May 1-May 2. They say the US SEALs killed someone else and carried his body away; Osama was actually killed in 2001 and his body frozen to be brought out at an opportune time which was now when it was thawed, flown to Abbottabad and shot again in the chest and eye; that this was all a drama staged to help Obama win the presidential election, etc.

This despite the chief of the Mother of All Agencies admitting before parliament that Osama’s unnoticed presence in Abbottabad for six years was an intelligence failure for which he was ready to resign should parliament ask him and if ISI is found guilty of incompetence. He has also come up with a defence that many other agencies should also be investigated for their part in this fiasco, he is reported to have told (word chosen advisedly) parliament: the local police, the police CID, IB and so on.

I guess he forgot that the Pakistan Army and its agencies the ISI and MI rule the roost when it comes to ‘strategic assets’ (all 57 varieties), and that these agencies do not let, as we say in the vernacular, ‘the fly sit on their noses’ when it comes to this lot. I can see the local police official sauntering up to that quite frightening house festooned with surveillance cameras, and ringing the bell!

So then, the Deep State bludgeoned parliament into meeting in camera, in a joint session, at a time of its choosing, what. And ran the session according to its wishes, talking down to members of parliament.

It is as if, once again, the establishment has had its way, transferring the egg from its face on to parliament’s. Instead of bringing gravity to the proceedings, the government brought a certain lightness to it, as if the Osama affair was nothing much to be agitated about; that it was a very small matter for him to be found in that peculiar house in Abbottabad Cantonment.

Which, be as it may, it is a matter for parliamentarians to sort out; if they want to be treated with contempt who am I to object? So, let us go to more substantive matters; where we are, and where we are to go from here, the crossroads at which we have been stuck for the last 64 years, sometimes with our axle broken, sometimes with both tyres punctured —this is the oxcart of the Pakistani state we talk about — and at others with the poor oxen lame and ill and unable to pull the cart any further.

How many times does one have to say that Pakistan is exposing itself to disaster by thinking it can run with the hare and hunt with the hounds? For 10 years I have been beseeching the powers to please take honest stock of the state of the country, to please stop using its so-called strategic location as a means towards first milking and then defying the rest of the world, to honestly draw up a balance sheet to see whether the so-called Taliban are assets or liabilities?

How many times does one have to caution the players of the Great Game, our Rommels and Guderians, that Barack Obama is not Dubya, that this is an intelligent and a thoughtful man, who would bring sense to the fight against terror; that it would be impossible to fool him? How many times does one have to beg, yes beg, those that run the security policies of the country to please, please come clean, and fight the war with purpose?

Well, crunch time is here: from all reports, the US is up to here with Pakistan’s shenanigans. Senator Kerry is in Islamabad carrying the big stick and some few carrots and I think it will be foolishness of a very high order if we do not disgorge the rest of the baddies who are most likely to be hiding in the Citadel of Islam. But we do have rather high levels of plain idiocy coupled with brass, a most lethal mixture so the Lord alone knows what we will do.

Out of the gloom, however, there comes a faint ray of hope: Mr Nawaz Sharif’s clear and unambiguous stand against GHQ and its intelligence agencies playing a policymaking part in the political life and the foreign relations of our country. And for the defence and intelligence budgets to be presented in full before parliament.

In the end, let me once again beseech President Zardari and Mr Sharif: only you two can ensure the supremacy of parliament and therefore of an elected government, gentlemen. The lotas of the PML-Q and its several parts are unreliable and when push comes to shove will always scurry into the warm (and gainful) embrace of the Deep State.

kshafi1@yahoo.co.uk

The truth is out | Opinion | DAWN.COM

 

[AAtish]

Though this was not responded to me, but i feel responsible to answer as it is a matter of national security of Pakistan..

The affair of OBL is a very sensitive. The directly involved stakeholders are looking beyond the paradigm of just satisfying the skepticism. US administration stakeholders is more concerned about repercussions of showing the pictures of deceased OBL at this stage due to ongoing WOT.

Yes, we surely are doing that, looking beyond the paradigm of just satisfying scepticism (yours).. Repercussion plea is to use “fear factor” to make every questioning tongue quiet, nothing less, nothing more..

The expected repercussions include:

• Groups affiliated with OBL may decide to show images or footage of dead bodies of NATO soldiers in response, if they get the chance to take/make them.
• Groups affiliated with OBL are also expected to carry out revenge attacks.

Recently, we got this: Osama bin Laden 'revenge' attacks in Pakistan - in pictures | World news | guardian.co.uk

And also this: Osama bin Laden dead: Saudi Arabian diplomat shot dead in revenge attack - Telegraph

I can also understand that the repercussions may occur regardless. But they will only affirm the official position of US on fate of OBL.

Am I stupid, or are you sounding like one?? If the repercussions are going to occur regardless, then how come official position of US is justified?? They are going to happen anyway, so why not satisfy the questioning minds and get MAJORITY of world population on your side, especially the effected ones??

In fact, if they were telling the truth, they should have called the Media and representatives of OTHER countries (Ambassadors, who live in 35 min drive, in Islamabad) to confirm the hit of OBL. These conspiracy theories had never even existed.

Sooner of later, concrete details are expected to surface up. Till then, patience is adviced.

Okay, we can wait till then, If US stops attacking areas of Pakistan’s territory. Do you know that, on the basis of THIS lie, they are now attacking North Waziristan? And they are threatening to go in urban areas also, if need be??

For those of you who always blabber about “oh we cannot fight against US, technological gap is too high” etc. Let me remind you of something, there is an organization called “United Nations”, If you do NOT want to face US because you are so SCARED, then at least REGISTER YOUR COMPLAINT in UN. Has anyone from the “bayghairat” Govt. done that??

No, I do not put blind faith in claims. I wait for several sources to verify or corroborate with a claim.

Keep waiting mate.. Till they knock on your door, and believe me, u wouldn’t have a proof even then..

In case of fate of OBL, important sources are these:

Osama bin Laden death: Al-Qaida vows to carry out revenge attacks on US | World news | The Guardian

Osama bin Laden's daughter witnessed his death, says Pakistani official | World news | The Guardian

Osama bin Laden death: How family scene in compound turned to carnage | World news | The Guardian

All word of mouth, nothing concrete! As far as AQ is concerned, can you answer why they are letting a terrorist organization run a website OPENLY??, thanks..

Furthermore, another senator is testifying after observing the evidence:

Blunt observes bin Laden photos | Springfield News-Leader | News-Leader.com

This senator has been well known for his support for Anti-Pakistan, Anti-Islamic and Pro-Israel approach.. Check his name on Wikipedia along with all the information out there, for confirmation

You make it sound like as if you are the only Pakistani citizen who is worried?

No, there are millions of others, just like me, by the looks of it, you are not one of them.

And you know that Iran and US are not on friendly terms?

Here is latest from Iran on OBL's fate:

Osama a prisoner before his death, Iran's leader claims

Just a question mate.. How do you ACCEPT every word of mouth from US but not from IRAN??? Mind giving me an answer?? Or as usual you gonna skip it like other pro-US members?

With passage of time, we will also get to know Pakistan's perspective regarding event of Operation Neptune Spear.

However, do not underestimate the capabilities of USA. USA is far far stronger then Pakistan (reality check). That nation has landed machines on planet MARS, while we (Pakistani) have yet to develop an aeroplane independently. Try to understand the technological gap between us and them.

What US administration knows and understands about the ground realities of our security establishment can be far greater then what you and I know.

Again, using the fear factor, mate.. as I have mentioned above, there is an organization called UN, which was SPECIFICALLY created to support “weaker” countries (though I don’t accept Pakistan is) against “stronger” countries. Ever heard of it??

Besides, If push comes to shove, and war with US is eminent, then we’ll happily go for it, let me remind you that US is not in a situation to wage a new war, it will collapse! (reality check!).

Do consider other “ground realities” also. Looking at your profile, you live in Pakistan, just a question, have you ever been abroad? Or if you have, have you traveled “recently”? don’t take it personal please, ground realities are totally different from what is being portrayed in Pakistan by Western, Indian and some Pro-Pakistani Media..

US is on the verge of bankruptcy.. Economically it has gone down the drain, no department is stabilize at the moment, people are suffering, low health service, low social service, low education service, infrastructure is also getting destroyed cuz of lack of budget, etc. etc. etc.. These are ground realities.. and a country that is in such situation CANNOT go in to another war.. Its own people are gonna retaliate against it..

Here is a link for you

Your call. No one cares about what you think or other skeptics may think. Many sources have verified that several family members of OBL were found living in the raided house. And lots of locals have testified that residents of that house were 'secretive about their activities' and were very choosey about whom they would let in.

My friend, OBL’s family is not the issue, there is NO law ANYWHERE which states that you can put family members of a criminal on trial.. so OBL’s family can live anywhere (not that I am accepting that they were living there, it also might be a hoax too, they haven’t been shown to us, just “word of mouth”)..

My question is.. Where is the proof that OBL was there? Where is the proof that he was killed there?? If that is not confirmed, then everything else is BS!

Explained above. The involved stakeholders are looking at the larger picture. Skeptics are only concerned about their personal satisfaction.

Responded above, If personal satisfaction to you, means fighting for one’s own country, then yes, you can call us sceptics.

And what evidences did you saw? US administration has shown nothing about OBL. The only concrete materials we have access to is the evidence of the carnage of that raided house.

That’s the whole point.. how are you so sure that they killed him there?? Evidence which we are talking about is all contradictory statements by those goons, faked videos, faked pictures, faked audios, lies upon lies upon lies.. you don’t need to be Aristotle to know it’s all a sham, yeah one needs to be logically challenged to accept them..

Thank you for quoting the original verse.

The fate of OBL has been verified from several independent sources and not just from US administration. However, with passage of time, truth is expected to come to light.

Till then, no need to pass premature verdicts on the event of May 2.

Fate of OBL is that he died, the question is, did he die in THAT mansion in Abbottabad? No evident proof supports that claim.. PERIOD.. and if there is no proof, then the only verdict in public court is.. US is guilty of lying and deceit, OBL was NOT there, It was ALL a sham to create reason to invade Pakistan (a sovereign state).. Hence the verdict.. case closed!!

 

[AAtish]

Don’t know what would make my countrymen to realize that by believing in all those conspiracy theories, we are behaving like a nation full of Ostriches who covers his head in sand to avoid facing the truth. Urdu media in particular is guilty of distorting the truth to no end. Following was published in today's Dawn:

The truth is outKamran Shafi
(15 hours ago) TodayBUT the denial goes on to confound the hapless people of this hapless country, in the hope that in all the noise and confusion of conspiracy theory upon conspiracy theory, the enormity of the catastrophe this country has just faced will lessen in the public’s memory.

The Deep State probably learnt well from Adolf Hitler who says in Mein Kampf: “Propaganda must not investigate the truth objectively … and present only that aspect of the truth which is favourable to its own side … the receptive powers of the masses are very restricted, and their understanding is feeble … they [also] quickly forget … effective propaganda must be confined to a few bare essentials and those must be expressed as far as possible in stereotyped formulas … slogans should be persistently repeated until the very last individual has come to grasp the idea that has been put forward….”

Some conspiracy theorists and Deep State propagandists continue to question America’s claim that Osama was killed in
Abbottabad on the night of May 1-May 2. They say the US SEALs killed someone else and carried his body away; Osama was actually killed in 2001 and his body frozen to be brought out at an opportune time which was now when it was thawed, flown to Abbottabad and shot again in the chest and eye; that this was all a drama staged to help Obama win the presidential election, etc.

This despite the chief of the Mother of All Agencies admitting before parliament that Osama’s unnoticed presence in Abbottabad for six years was an intelligence failure for which he was ready to resign should parliament ask him and if ISI is found guilty of incompetence. He has also come up with a defence that many other agencies should also be investigated for their part in this fiasco, he is reported to have told (word chosen advisedly) parliament: the local police, the police CID, IB and so on.

I guess he forgot that the Pakistan Army and its agencies the ISI and MI rule the roost when it comes to ‘strategic assets’ (all 57 varieties), and that these agencies do not let, as we say in the vernacular, ‘the fly sit on their noses’ when it comes to this lot. I can see the local police official sauntering up to that quite frightening house festooned with surveillance cameras, and ringing the bell!

So then, the Deep State bludgeoned parliament into meeting in camera, in a joint session, at a time of its choosing, what. And ran the session according to its wishes, talking down to members of parliament.

It is as if, once again, the establishment has had its way, transferring the egg from its face on to parliament’s. Instead of bringing gravity to the proceedings, the government brought a certain lightness to it, as if the Osama affair was nothing much to be agitated about; that it was a very small matter for him to be found in that peculiar house in Abbottabad Cantonment.

Which, be as it may, it is a matter for parliamentarians to sort out; if they want to be treated with contempt who am I to object? So, let us go to more substantive matters; where we are, and where we are to go from here, the crossroads at which we have been stuck for the last 64 years, sometimes with our axle broken, sometimes with both tyres punctured —this is the oxcart of the Pakistani state we talk about — and at others with the poor oxen lame and ill and unable to pull the cart any further.

How many times does one have to say that Pakistan is exposing itself to disaster by thinking it can run with the hare and hunt with the hounds? For 10 years I have been beseeching the powers to please take honest stock of the state of the country, to please stop using its so-called strategic location as a means towards first milking and then defying the rest of the world, to honestly draw up a balance sheet to see whether the so-called Taliban are assets or liabilities?

How many times does one have to caution the players of the Great Game, our Rommels and Guderians, that Barack Obama is not Dubya, that this is an intelligent and a thoughtful man, who would bring sense to the fight against terror; that it would be impossible to fool him? How many times does one have to beg, yes beg, those that run the security policies of the country to please, please come clean, and fight the war with purpose?

Well, crunch time is here: from all reports, the US is up to here with Pakistan’s shenanigans. Senator Kerry is in Islamabad carrying the big stick and some few carrots and I think it will be foolishness of a very high order if we do not disgorge the rest of the baddies who are most likely to be hiding in the Citadel of Islam. But we do have rather high levels of plain idiocy coupled with brass, a most lethal mixture so the Lord alone knows what we will do.

Out of the gloom, however, there comes a faint ray of hope: Mr Nawaz Sharif’s clear and unambiguous stand against GHQ and its intelligence agencies playing a policymaking part in the political life and the foreign relations of our country. And for the defence and intelligence budgets to be presented in full before parliament.

In the end, let me once again beseech President Zardari and Mr Sharif: only you two can ensure the supremacy of parliament and therefore of an elected government, gentlemen. The lotas of the PML-Q and its several parts are unreliable and when push comes to shove will always scurry into the warm (and gainful) embrace of the Deep State.

kshafi1@yahoo.co.uk

The truth is out | Opinion | DAWN.COM

Kamran Shafi.. Enough said!!!

Show me ONE article from this guy where he has questioned authenticity of ANY US claim.. PAYROLL???

 

[LeGenD]

Honestly, REALLY, take my advice instead of giving it back to me.

It applies both ways.

That is the whole point, You, I, and all others (general audience) are being kept in the DARK by US administration, same was as we were kept in the DARK for 9/11 and IRAQ WMDs. We are suffering since then!! and i do NOT wish to suffer further, nor i wish MY country to be invaded on "projected" picture.. as they say TAKE THE BULL BY THE HORN!! why wait?? a decade's wait hasn't brought proof of 9/11 out..

What is the reality behind 9/11?

At least, their is a commission report on it: National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States

In our case, we have to yet to see commission reports on events of Bangledesh independence, Siachin, and Kargil. So enlighten me please.

Regarding Iraq; it was BUSH game. The son decided to finish what his father started. He saw an opportunity under the pretext of WOT. From a neutral perspective, Iraqi invasion and occupation is indeed unjustified and illegal. From US perspective, they removed an unpopular dictator from power and put him to justice.

In addition, some Islamic nations are also complicit in the event of Iraq too.

Furthermore, Saddam Hussain (himself) was also responsible. Had he been popular in his country and played some smart politics instead of attacking neighbouring countries, Iraq could be in a much better position in the 21st century.

Point is that we are quick to blame others. However, we need to do some self-analysis as well.

So it is not wise to jump to premature conclusions. The sources (besides US) are relaying what US said, and every one has their own agenda.. So IF you have irrefutable proof of his death then come clean, otherwise, US is a confirmed liar and deceiter.

What about confessions from AlQaeda and OBL family members in our custody? Are these independent sources complicit in a 'great game of US against Pakistan' too?

Reality check:

• USA and AlQaeda are at WAR against each other.
• Family members of OBL resent US actions against him.

Further to your theory, the question is not if OBL is dead or alive, he is dead, has been for long time, the question is IF he was killed in THAT "mansion" in Abbottabad, Pakistan!!. That is the whole basis of propaganda against Pakistan.

So you are saying that OBL was dead for a long time. What 'concrete evidence' do you have to verify this claim?

Try to come out of your virtual life and face the reality, on the basis of lies, they invaded two countries, and on the basis of lies again, they are killing innocent civilians in MY country.

MY country???

Pakistan is MY country too.

And if you are pointing a finger at me, keep in mind that remaining fingers are pointing back at you.

Some innocent civilians of our country also did this:

Osama bin Laden dead: protests in Pakistan - Telegraph

Terrorists like OBL can easily find sympathy in Pakistan. Do the math now.

If you are a Pakistani, wake up from drunken buzz and face the harsh reality, US Govt. is friends to no one, not even their OWN citizen.

I fully understand that US cares about its own interests. Same is true for Pakistan as well and all other nations. US administration wants things to go its way. Pakistani administration wants things to go its way. In this tussle, lies the mess in which Pakistan finds itself now. And I am fully awake to harsh realities in Pakistan and its neighbours. However, I am not in to premature assumptions like you.

Some reality check for you: we are as much responsible for the mess in Afghanistan as is USA. If you doubt me, ask those Afghans who deeply resent us.

As far as burden of proof is concerned (which was your response to bilalhaider) let me give you an example.. If you claim that you have conquered Mount Everest, people will "laugh" at you until you SHOW them YOUR pictures with a flag ON Mount Everest. Got my point? let me clear it for you, burden of proof stays on CLAIMANT..

I have given an explanation to member innocent boy. And for more details, please contact the US administration. Till then, excercise some patience instead of promoting conspiracy theories.

Anyways, there is an age old saying "Ignorance is a bliss"..

Just my two cents..

Fits on you nicely.

 

[S.M.R]

The affair of OBL is very sensitive. The directly involved stakeholders are looking beyond the paradigm of just satisfying the skepticism. US administration stakeholders is more concerned about repercussions of showing the pictures of deceased OBL at this stage due to ongoing WOT.

The expected repercussions include:

• Groups affiliated with OBL may decide to show images or footage of dead bodies of NATO soldiers in response, if they get the chance to take/make them.
• Groups affiliated with OBL are also expected to carry out revenge attacks.

Recently, we got this: Osama bin Laden 'revenge' attacks in Pakistan - in pictures | World news | guardian.co.uk

And also this: Osama bin Laden dead: Saudi Arabian diplomat shot dead in revenge attack - Telegraph

I can also understand that the repercussions may occur regardless. But they will only affirm the official position of US on fate of OBL.

Sooner of later, concrete details are expected to surface up. Till then, patience is adviced.


No, I do not put blind faith in claims. I wait for several sources to verify or corroborate with a claim.

In case of fate of OBL, important sources are these:

Osama bin Laden death: Al-Qaida vows to carry out revenge attacks on US | World news | The Guardian

Osama bin Laden's daughter witnessed his death, says Pakistani official | World news | The Guardian

Osama bin Laden death: How family scene in compound turned to carnage | World news | The Guardian

Furthermore, another senator is testifying after observing the evidence:

Blunt observes bin Laden photos | Springfield News-Leader | News-Leader.com


You make it sound like as if you are the only Pakistani citizen who is worried?

And you know that Iran and US are not on friendly terms?

Here is latest from Iran on OBL's fate:

Osama a prisoner before his death, Iran's leader claims


With passage of time, we will also get to know Pakistan's perspective regarding event of Operation Neptune Spear.

However, do not underestimate the capabilities of USA. USA is far far stronger then Pakistan (reality check). That nation has landed machines on planet MARS, while we (Pakistani) have yet to develop an aeroplane independently. Try to understand the technological gap between us and them.

What US administration knows and understands about the ground realities of our security establishment can be far greater then what you and I know.


Your call. No one cares about what you think or other skeptics may think. Many sources have verified that several family members of OBL were found living in the raided house. And lots of locals have testified that residents of that house were 'secretive about their activities' and were very choosey about whom they would let in.


Explained above. The involved stakeholders are looking at the larger picture. Skeptics are only concerned about their personal satisfaction.


And what evidences did you saw? US administration has shown nothing about OBL. The only concrete materials we have access to is the evidence of the carnage of that raided house.


Thank you for quoting the original verse.

The fate of OBL has been verified from several independent sources and not just from US administration. However, with passage of time, truth is expected to come to light.

Till then, no need to pass premature verdicts on the event of May 2.

Enough has already been said on the issue. Till the concrete evidence is provided all will remain the plotted story.

Further, the links you provided of the post osama attacks which in your view proves the OBL's killings. Okay, right. To whom will you associate Pre Osama blasts / killings in Pakistan?

Have a nice day !!!

 

[Chogy]

The efforts at rational and logical debate are appreciated, but it is the nature of conspiracy enthusiasts to cover their ears with their hands and say "nyaah nyaah I can't hear you!" and no amount of evidence will change their minds.

There are TWO pieces of evidence that stand out. There should be three, and I'll leave it to Pakistani members to explain why #3 is being ignored.

1) the organization that is al quaeda acknowledges the raid. "OBL is dead."

2) bin Laden's immediate relatives in Pakistani custody say "They killed him in front of our eyes.

and the unresolved...

3) Massive amounts of blood evidence in the compound, available for Pakistani DNA investigation.

Forensic science can easily determine the freshness of the blood, and the identity of the owner.

 

[AAtish]

It applies both ways.

Yes, It does, would you mind implementing it too??

What is the reality behind 9/11?

At least, their is a commission report on it: National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States

In our case, we have yet to see commission reports on events of Bangledesh independence, Siachin, and Kargil. So enlighten me please.

I honestly thought, at first, that you were providing me with a “valid” proof of 9/11 but when I read the next lines, you are just portraying that they “at least” did something, no matter if it is a “questionable” report. So are you trying to impose that lying is better than not saying anything??

As I said before, 9/11 is based on a lie, no solid proof provided in last decade, up till now..

Regarding Iraq; it was BUSH game. The son decided to finish what his father started. He saw an opportunity under the pretext of WOT. From a neutral perspective, Iraqi invasion and occupation is indeed unjustified and illegal. From US perspective, they removed an unpopular dictator from power and put him to justice.

Thanks for accepting that US lied about Iraq and WMDs.

So they invaded a country, destroyed infrastructure, sent a pretty developed country into stone age, millions dead, millions lost their limbs and are suffering, millions of children don’t have anyone to care or feed them, just because BUSH JR. wanted to complete what BUSH SR. started?? And that justified them??

In addition, some Islamic nations are also complicit in the event of Iraq too.

Furthermore, Saddam Hussain (himself) was also responsible. Had he been popular in his country and played some smart politics instead of attacking neighbouring countries, Iraq could be in a much better position in the 21st century.

If we take your logic into consideration, Saddam was the reason for suffering of Iraqi people? Well let me tell you something, before the WoT was taken to IRAQ, people were pretty well off there, Here is a link which will let you know the REAL reason for that WAR, it was NOT a family war..
Revisited - The Real Reasons for the Upcoming War in Iraq: A Macroeconomic and Geostrategic Analysis of the Unspoken Truth, by William Clark, updated: Jan 2004

Point is that we are quick to blame others. However, we need to do some self-analysis as well.

Irrelevant, but I will respond, Its not about blaming others or analyzing ourselves, it’s about providing irrefutable proof of what happened in Abbottabad, whatever happened in past is something which would be seen in the view of circumstances at THAT time in the past..

My point is, both the events which I mentioned i.e. 9/11 and WMDs, you yourself proved them to be lies.. That brings us to a conclusion that it is a confirmed and authenticated LIAR who is telling us about operation in Abbottabad, so we are not going to accept any action, reaction or retaliation on the basis of THAT action, until it is proven, it is something said by a LIAR.. simple!

What about confessions from AlQaeda and OBL family members in our custody? Are these independent sources complicit in a 'great game of US against Pakistan' too?

Reality check:

• USA and AlQaeda are at WAR against each other.
• Family members of OBL resent US actions against him.

Point #1: Either you are posing to be ignorant, or plainly not capable of understanding (pick your choice).. Do you know that AQ is being supported by NATO forces in Libya and Syria?? If they are at war with each other, how can they support each other??.. They are just two Terror organizations who are helping each other to increase chaos in the world for their own reasons..

Point #2: I haven’t seen OBL’s family members on any channel until now, stating or claiming anything.. have you??

So you are saying that OBL was dead for a long time. What 'concrete evidence' do you have to verify this claim?

Many reasons:
- OBL had both kidneys failed, and a person hasn’t lived more than 6 years after that.
- Circumstantial Evidence
- Evidence that the defendant lied: (Imprtant) Lies, on their own, are not sufficient evidence of a crime. However, lies may indicate that the defendant knows he is guilty, and the prosecution may rely on the fact that the defendant has lied alongside other evidence. (USA case)

- Previous numerous statements provided by many prominent people of different countries, Medical professionals, Investigators, Departments..

MY country???

Pakistan is MY country too.

And if you are pointing a finger at me, keep in mind that remaining fingers are pointing back at you.

I use to use this sentence when I was 10/11 years old Good old bachpan kay din.. (sigh)

Some innocent civilians of our country also did this:

Osama bin Laden dead: protests in Pakistan - Telegraph

Terrorists like OBL can easily find sympathy in Pakistan. Do the math now.

Do you know why OBL got these protests and became “shaheed”?? Can you tell me why Saddam is not called a “Shaheed” anywhere?? Not even in Pakistan.. Do the maths.. you like to say that, don’t you?
Remember bro, People are not stupid anymore, 9/11? Questionable, Iraq War? Questionable, OBL’s death? Questionable.. who are you fooling now? Who would you call a fool? Us, Who are asking questions? Or those who are accepting it is on AS IT IS basis?

I fully understand that US cares about its own interests. Same is true for Pakistan as well and all other nations. US administration wants things to go its way. Pakistani administration wants things to go its way. In this tussle, lies the mess in which Pakistan finds itself now. And I am fully awake to harsh realities in Pakistan and its neighbours. However, I am not in to premature assumptions like you.

Like I said before, I will wait if there is no action taken against MY country on the basis of THIS LIE.. If they are going forward with their “accelerated” actions.. I would retaliate to it.. You wanna sit burying you head in sand.. be my guest..

Some reality check for you: we are as much responsible for the mess in Afghanistan as is USA. If you doubt me, ask those Afghans who deeply resent us.

It is the whole world who is responsible for the mess, Afghans included, they were the ones who use to RUN to USSR for everything.. Afghan Govt. was “friends” with USSR.. people from Afghanistan use to go “Study” in USSR.. in Kabul, Mini skirts were “normal”.. THAT “development” didn’t come from Pakistan, now did it?.. read the history..

It was Pakistan who gave refuge to 8 million Afghan civilians, it was Pakistani people who opened their arms for Afghan brothers, If they still resent us, then they are ungrateful people, we don’t want them being grateful either.. we did what a Muslim brother should do for another Muslim brother.. Simple as that!!

I have given an explanation to member innocent boy. And for more details, please contact the US administration. Till then, excercise some patience instead of promoting conspiracy theories.
Fits on you nicely.

I’m sorry, I’ve got enough evidence to prove that twice a liar is a liar third time also, you still wanna wait because you have some of your “interests” that side, then be my guest..

As I said before.. Ignorance is a bliss for some people.. and you are a perfect proof of that..

 

[S.M.R]

The efforts at rational and logical debate are appreciated, but it is the nature of conspiracy enthusiasts to cover their ears with their hands and say "nyaah nyaah I can't hear you!" and no amount of evidence will change their minds.

There are TWO pieces of evidence that stand out. There should be three, and I'll leave it to Pakistani members to explain why #3 is being ignored.

1) the organization that is al quaeda acknowledges the raid. "OBL is dead."

2) bin Laden's immediate relatives in Pakistani custody say "They killed him in front of our eyes.

and the unresolved...

3) Massive amounts of blood evidence in the compound, available for Pakistani DNA investigation.

Forensic science can easily determine the freshness of the blood, and the identity of the owner.

It is not an update btw. These have already been answered before, Please spare some time to read all the pages, you will get the answer.

 

[AAtish]

The efforts at rational and logical debate are appreciated, but it is the nature of conspiracy enthusiasts to cover their ears with their hands and say "nyaah nyaah I can't hear you!" and no amount of evidence will change their minds.

Learn to use logic and think about probabilities, then you won't need to go "baan baan, i wanna just believe my liar Govt."..

There are TWO pieces of evidence that stand out. There should be three, and I'll leave it to Pakistani members to explain why #3 is being ignored.

1) the organization that is al quaeda acknowledges the raid. "OBL is dead."

Can you tell me why US is supporting AQ in Libya and Syria?? Was that acknowledgement part of some deal? i mean OBL is dead, so why not get some money, support and further recruitment by him being "shaheed".. i mean.. OBL dying in a cave with "kidney failure" is not dramatic, now is it?

2) bin Laden's immediate relatives in Pakistani custody say "They killed him in front of our eyes.

Word of mouth.. as everything else.. did you see any OBL's Family member giving interview or statement?..

i'm telling you, through unnamed high official of CIA who worked on OBL's case and doesn't want to be named because he is not allowed to talk to "strangers", that OBL died in 2001 in tora-bora because of Kidney failure.. According to the official, His death was kept hidden to fulfill other sinister Govt. plans, After Invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, it was thought that the death of OBL should be officially announced, but then on requirement of India and Israel, it was postponed for a more better time.. The question was how to keep OBL alive, so some duplicates were made through surgeries, but when the fakes were caught, US govt. started to provide "edited" audio tapes..

When asked about the operation in Abbottabad, Pakistan, and the death of OBL, the official smiled and said, have you seen the body?

and the unresolved...

3) Massive amounts of blood evidence in the compound, available for Pakistani DNA investigation.

Forensic science can easily determine the freshness of the blood, and the identity of the owner.

Many of you are talking about this.. Have you EVER read how DNA testing works?? DO YOU have ANY sample of OBL's DNA???.. for you KIND information, brothers and sisters from same parents have 85-100% compatible DNA.. Go read!!

 

[architect_cobb]

Many of you are talking about this.. Have you EVER read how DNA testing works?? DO YOU have ANY sample of OBL's DNA???.. for you KIND information, brothers and sisters from same parents have 85-100% compatible DNA.. Go read!!

Can two people have the same DNA?
Can you establish a relationship using DNA?
Is DNA the acceptable unique identifier of every single human being?

NOW YOU GO READ!!!

 

[roadrunner]

I think what AAtish is trying to explain is that the blood could be taken from anyone within OBL's family. Not necessarily from OBL himself. It would provide a match with 90% surity.

That is a theory, but his facial features have completely changed. He's had an ear change. The only think I can think of is that there were several Osama's in the house with slightly different ears, or Osama had surgery to change the shape of his ears for some reason

 

[AAtish]

Can two people have the same DNA?
Can you establish a relationship using DNA?
Is DNA the acceptable unique identifier of every single human being?

NOW YOU GO READ!!!

1. YES: Even two non-identical, non-twin siblings can have 100% matching DNA.
2. YES: DNA is composed of mother and father's DNA, % of participation might be different.
3. YES: It can pinpoint children of a certain PAIR to 100% certainty.. but individually Unique DNA depends upon composition in every child..

Now you go READ!!!

 

[AAtish]

I think what AAtish is trying to explain is that the blood could be taken from anyone within OBL's family. Not necessarily from OBL himself. It would provide a match with 90% surity.

That is a theory, but his facial features have completely changed. He's had an ear change. The only think I can think of is that there were several Osama's in the house with slightly different ears, or Osama had surgery to change the shape of his ears for some reason

not forgetting about different eyes, forehead, eyebrows, nose, lips.. other then that, he was perfect OBL

 

[S.M.R]

not forgetting about different eyes, forehead, eyebrows, nose, lips.. other then that, he was perfect OBL

The released video also seems fabricated, as he was watching FACE OFF