Option's for PAF ?

[Cool_Soldier]

J 31 OR Typhoon would be better option to respond.

 

[Zain Malik]

J-20 is banned for export just like F-22, the only option is to go for J-31

And The F35.......??????

J 31 OR Typhoon would be better option to respond.

I Don't Think That Pakistan Will Go For Eurofighter Mate......????? So let The Euro Fighter Out Of List......
Options Are J31 Or F35........Sooner The Deal is finalized More Better For Pakistan........!!!!!!!

 

[Cool_Soldier]

Yes, Less chances due to high price tag of Typhoon and F 35, there is no sign of availability of this Plane.
Only 8 f 16 created a big mess.how come we expect F 35 to buy.
So, depending on J 31 and waiting for its maturity.

 

[Ultima Thule]

And The F35.......??????


I Don't Think That Pakistan Will Go For Eurofighter Mate......????? So let The Euro Fighter Out Of List......
Options Are J31 Or F35........Sooner The Deal is finalized More Better For Pakistan........!!!!!!!

Just one word no chance for F-35

 

[ebrahym]

Ok Guys , as today we heard the news of IAF getting 36 Rafale ( Fly Away ) condition , that is probably 2 sqs ..
this must have ring some bells in our PAF Official , cause we currently have no Fighter that can counter Rafale , for our block 52's there might be a chance only if we have in numbers ...
so basically in terms of Indo-Pak war , these 2 Rafale sqs will work as 4 sqs ,

so what i want to discuss that what option PAF have and what they might be thinking ?

we are already behind IAF in numbers and now in technology as well ..
Indians will keep saying that these Rafale's is for China , but obviously we must come up with something to counter this new threat in South Asia ..

some of the Option Pakistan may consider are ..

36 F-16's Block 52's from US ..
or
36 J-10B's from China
or
36 Typhoon ? very less chances
or
Nothing ... just invest in some long Range SAM's ..

@Horus @Basel @araz @MastanKhan @DESERT FIGHTER @That Guy @Windjammer @fatman17 @The SC @Thorough Pro

we need to buy nothing .... if you see current developments in jf-17 program you will clearly see that we are efficient in combining avionics and engines bought from others ...... we will definately be able to develop a semi-stealth aircraft by 2020 by my guess ........ all we need is cooperation in tech with china and russia

 

[Zain Malik]

JF 17 Thunder is a good capable aircraft But it is a single engine........And only AESA Radar ( which is also only in Jf17 Block III ) is Not Enough To Be Relied Upon.......Sir Government Officials Have To Think Upon It........!!!!
What Do You Say.....?????

 

[544_delta]

...............to NOT pick up a fight with India.

36 rafales dont make you invincible

 

[Asian.Century]

Options for PAF

In today’s world, air supremacy plays a vi
tal role in achieving Military Objectives. The Pakistan Military has always been mindful of its meager resources and preferred quality over quantity.

The Pakistan Air Force is considered one of the best in the world due to its qualitative selection and professional excellence. The maintenance of this equilibrium depends on the continuous upgrading of its fleet.

The Pakistan Air Force currently operates a fighter force comprising F-16s, Dassault Mirage IIIs and 5s, Chengdu F-7s, and JF-17s. F-16s, with their tactical nuclear delivery capabilities, play a particularly important role for Pakistan in bolstering its conventional abilities against India. The Indian lobby is trying to isolate Pakistan within Washington’s power corridors, which may jeopardize the sale of more F16 to Pakistan. If so, Pakistan should seek to purchase Sukhoi Su-35 fighter jets that are far more advanced than the F-16s. The Russian-made jets could be a great asset for Pakistan Air Force.

The general comparison between the Russia’s Su-35 Fighter and America’s F-16 Fighting Falcon shows that with properly trained pilots and support from ground controllers or AWACs, the Su-35 is an extremely formidable threat to Western Aircraft.

Over the years, the F-16 has evolved from a lightweight visual range dogfighter into a potent multi-role warplane that flies a gamut of missions ranging from the suppression of enemy air defences to air superiority. Though it has been operational since 1980, the “Falcon” continues to evolve and will remain in service with the US Air Force and other militaries for decades to come.

But while the F-16 remains a potent fighter, potential adversaries have caught up—the latest Russian aircraft like the Sukhoi Su-35 can match or exceed the Falcon in many respects. The F-16 doesn’t have the latest upgraded massive active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar nor can the F-16 usually lob the AIM-120 missile from high speeds and altitudes.

The US Air Force F-16s are not currently fitted with an AESA and are at a severe disadvantage versus the Su-35 or other advanced Flanker derivatives. With an AESA, the F-16 could probably hold its own against the Su-35 at longer ranges—but it would still be a challenge. At shorter ranges, it comes down to pilot skill and the performance of each jet’s high off-boresight missiles. The advent of missiles like the R-73 and AIM-9Xhave turned visual range fights into mutually assured destruction scenarios.

While the Su-35’s thrust vectoring gives it an edge at very low speeds, it’s not an insurmountable problem for an expert F-16 pilot—who knows how to exploit his or her aircraft to the fullest—to overcome. The bottom line is that the Su-35 is an extremely capable aircraft. With regard to the F-16s or Su-35s, the matter of Pakistan of adding additional fighters to its current fleet might come down to mundane matters of what is financially feasible.

Currently, the Indian Air force (IAF) is far larger with about 740 combat aircraft versus the Pakistan Air Force’s (PAF) approximate 400 aircraft, but everything is not as it seems.

What at first glance seems overwhelming odds against the PAF on closer examination does not seem as overwhelming. For instance, the IAF has far lower serviceability of its aircraft. Indian pilot training as evidenced by Red Flag exercises with the US is also not yet up to par with the PAF and their maintenance crews are not as diligent. Their present Russian/Soviet technology is generally less reliable and less effective and a large part of their fleet of MiG-21s and MiG-27s are outdated.

PAF aircraft are either of Western stock or Chinese and are far more maintenance friendly. Pakistan has also been upgrading their aircraft massively and have incorporated a complex combination of technology from across the globe – from China to Brazil, from South Africa to the US. PAF pilot training is on par with the best in the world and its maintenance crews are trained on the level of Western maintenance crews.

The large number of IAF crashes because of low level of maintenance crew is indicative of this acute problem with one of the highest crash rates among Air Forces of the world. What compounds this problem is the age of large sections of the Indian fleet, which has large numbers of MiG-21s and MiG-27s that are, besides the Bisons, highly outdated and are sometimes referred to as “Flying Coffins” by their pilots.

Pakistan, on the other hand has a better pilot-to-aircaft ratio than the IAF — meaning it could sustain a greater sortie rate over a protracted conflict. PAF aircraft are also “pimped” in that they have been extensively modified. Thus, while on paper PAF is flying ancient Mirages that were bought second-hand from the Australians, when one actually examines any such model, one is surprised at how extensively they have been rebuilt – almost from scratch and the hardware is extremely lethal.

Other than the secretive BVR AAMs, the PAF has extensively incorporated the strike element into its Mirages, at a level only matched by the IAF’s Mirage-2000s and Su-30 FLANKERs, and even then some of the equipment has no IAF equivalent.

Pakistan should continue its policy of quality over quantity as it is the only way to keep an equilibrium in its hostile environment and to secure the nation’s existence. Additionally, Pakistan should keep all options open as sovereignty and independence comes first, rather than becoming affiliated to a particular group or alliance.

 

[denel]

Options for PAF

In today’s world, air supremacy plays a vi
tal role in achieving Military Objectives. The Pakistan Military has always been mindful of its meager resources and preferred quality over quantity.

The Pakistan Air Force is considered one of the best in the world due to its qualitative selection and professional excellence. The maintenance of this equilibrium depends on the continuous upgrading of its fleet.

The Pakistan Air Force currently operates a fighter force comprising F-16s, Dassault Mirage IIIs and 5s, Chengdu F-7s, and JF-17s. F-16s, with their tactical nuclear delivery capabilities, play a particularly important role for Pakistan in bolstering its conventional abilities against India. The Indian lobby is trying to isolate Pakistan within Washington’s power corridors, which may jeopardize the sale of more F16 to Pakistan. If so, Pakistan should seek to purchase Sukhoi Su-35 fighter jets that are far more advanced than the F-16s. The Russian-made jets could be a great asset for Pakistan Air Force.

The general comparison between the Russia’s Su-35 Fighter and America’s F-16 Fighting Falcon shows that with properly trained pilots and support from ground controllers or AWACs, the Su-35 is an extremely formidable threat to Western Aircraft.

Over the years, the F-16 has evolved from a lightweight visual range dogfighter into a potent multi-role warplane that flies a gamut of missions ranging from the suppression of enemy air defences to air superiority. Though it has been operational since 1980, the “Falcon” continues to evolve and will remain in service with the US Air Force and other militaries for decades to come.

But while the F-16 remains a potent fighter, potential adversaries have caught up—the latest Russian aircraft like the Sukhoi Su-35 can match or exceed the Falcon in many respects. The F-16 doesn’t have the latest upgraded massive active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar nor can the F-16 usually lob the AIM-120 missile from high speeds and altitudes.

The US Air Force F-16s are not currently fitted with an AESA and are at a severe disadvantage versus the Su-35 or other advanced Flanker derivatives. With an AESA, the F-16 could probably hold its own against the Su-35 at longer ranges—but it would still be a challenge. At shorter ranges, it comes down to pilot skill and the performance of each jet’s high off-boresight missiles. The advent of missiles like the R-73 and AIM-9Xhave turned visual range fights into mutually assured destruction scenarios.

While the Su-35’s thrust vectoring gives it an edge at very low speeds, it’s not an insurmountable problem for an expert F-16 pilot—who knows how to exploit his or her aircraft to the fullest—to overcome. The bottom line is that the Su-35 is an extremely capable aircraft. With regard to the F-16s or Su-35s, the matter of Pakistan of adding additional fighters to its current fleet might come down to mundane matters of what is financially feasible.

Currently, the Indian Air force (IAF) is far larger with about 740 combat aircraft versus the Pakistan Air Force’s (PAF) approximate 400 aircraft, but everything is not as it seems.

What at first glance seems overwhelming odds against the PAF on closer examination does not seem as overwhelming. For instance, the IAF has far lower serviceability of its aircraft. Indian pilot training as evidenced by Red Flag exercises with the US is also not yet up to par with the PAF and their maintenance crews are not as diligent. Their present Russian/Soviet technology is generally less reliable and less effective and a large part of their fleet of MiG-21s and MiG-27s are outdated.

PAF aircraft are either of Western stock or Chinese and are far more maintenance friendly. Pakistan has also been upgrading their aircraft massively and have incorporated a complex combination of technology from across the globe – from China to Brazil, from South Africa to the US. PAF pilot training is on par with the best in the world and its maintenance crews are trained on the level of Western maintenance crews.

The large number of IAF crashes because of low level of maintenance crew is indicative of this acute problem with one of the highest crash rates among Air Forces of the world. What compounds this problem is the age of large sections of the Indian fleet, which has large numbers of MiG-21s and MiG-27s that are, besides the Bisons, highly outdated and are sometimes referred to as “Flying Coffins” by their pilots.

Pakistan, on the other hand has a better pilot-to-aircaft ratio than the IAF — meaning it could sustain a greater sortie rate over a protracted conflict. PAF aircraft are also “pimped” in that they have been extensively modified. Thus, while on paper PAF is flying ancient Mirages that were bought second-hand from the Australians, when one actually examines any such model, one is surprised at how extensively they have been rebuilt – almost from scratch and the hardware is extremely lethal.

Other than the secretive BVR AAMs, the PAF has extensively incorporated the strike element into its Mirages, at a level only matched by the IAF’s Mirage-2000s and Su-30 FLANKERs, and even then some of the equipment has no IAF equivalent.

Pakistan should continue its policy of quality over quantity as it is the only way to keep an equilibrium in its hostile environment and to secure the nation’s existence. Additionally, Pakistan should keep all options open as sovereignty and independence comes first, rather than becoming affiliated to a particular group or alliance.

no... Mirages are completely and hopelessly out-dated friend. There is nothing strategic about them. This is a very misleading article.

 

[khanasifm]

no... Mirages are completely and hopelessly out-dated friend. There is nothing strategic about them. This is a very misleading article.

 

[denel]

View attachment 478457

Yes my friend, i do understand the zeal to put a lot of flowers on the Mirage ROSE; in honest opinion - I loved the mirage as well; when we evolved it to Cheetah - that was something to behold. Unfortunately even with Mirage ROSE and still behind Cheetah's capabilities, it is past its time and time has come to take hard decision to put them to retirement and replace them with good deep strike aircraft.

 

[khanasifm]

Yes my friend, i do understand the zeal to put a lot of flowers on the Mirage ROSE; in honest opinion - I loved the mirage as well; when we evolved it to Cheetah - that was something to behold. Unfortunately even with Mirage ROSE and still behind Cheetah's capabilities, it is past its time and time has come to take hard decision to put them to retirement and replace them with good deep strike aircraft.

You put up the bill and paf will order

Bottom line wish list vs budget typical case till it happens mirages will continue with new source of spares still available now target is 2024/25 for the last mirage to phase out ie last sqn will be rose II and III

15, 8, 22, and 7 will go first in that order perhaps and then 25 and 27

 

[Liquidmetal]

I am against Russian aircraft, generally poor reputations, low quality, maintenance heavy and low availability, how about the Typhoons instead?

 

[araz]

I am against Russian aircraft, generally poor reputations, low quality, maintenance heavy and low availability, how about the Typhoons instead?

Money remains an issue plus threat of sanctions.
I have been following this debate.
There are 2 questions which need answering in my view.
Which platform and when.
What is the need.
The need is evident. Mirages are long past their prime and need replacing. However the issues are perrenial for PAF. Firstly where is the money going to come from. Secondly currently PAF is all hands on deck integrating JFT into the system. Block 3 is going to be inducted and with newer capabilities will need a lot of work utilizing newer te h to the max. We have seen PAF has not been able to stand up more than 1 squadron a year inspite of potential for production being upto 25 units/yr. In this environment I dont see anything new coming till at least 2020/21. I more squadron will be stood up in the interim possibly before a hiatus for retooling in preparation for block 3. There are foreign orders to be filled as well.
So whatever happens will happen afterwards.
Now this period in my view is crucial. Our adversary will be inducting the Rafale which is a very capable platform. Any capability acquired would have to be technologically superior to it as paisa for paisa Indian buying power will always be more than ours. In this light in my humble opinion SU or EFT can ony provide appropriate/comparative capabilities which can be countered by increasing the numbers of Rafales. This is a problem that PAF has to grapple with.
Taking it further again there are also a myriad of issues with integrating both platforms. Potentially both are sanctionable as well.Then lack of commonality of spares and weaponry creates additioanl headaches as well as integrating diverse hardware into the netcentric environment. This makes it unlikely for PAF to acquire any of these platforms in my opinion.
The answer has to be Chinese platform. The queztion is which?
In my humble opinion J10 does not give us the bang for buck. It will therefore be either the J11/16 or J20/31or similar AC.
THE problems with J11/16 are known. Which makes me think it will have to be the latter. Any escort mission/work horse jobs will be assigned to progressively advanced JFTs as it seems the most logical solution given the paucity of funds involved.Of the 2 even though the 20 is much more capable it is an overkill for PAF so either J31will be acquired which has multiple advantages or a similar fighter will be inducted. 2 -3 squadrons will give us the breathing space before the Project Azm bears fruit in the form of a light single engined product( I understand this can be refuted in light of the Ex ACMs speech)as the work horse along with J31.
A

 

[GriffinsRule]

Options for PAF

In today’s world, air supremacy plays a vi
tal role in achieving Military Objectives. The Pakistan Military has always been mindful of its meager resources and preferred quality over quantity.

The Pakistan Air Force is considered one of the best in the world due to its qualitative selection and professional excellence. The maintenance of this equilibrium depends on the continuous upgrading of its fleet.

The Pakistan Air Force currently operates a fighter force comprising F-16s, Dassault Mirage IIIs and 5s, Chengdu F-7s, and JF-17s. F-16s, with their tactical nuclear delivery capabilities, play a particularly important role for Pakistan in bolstering its conventional abilities against India. The Indian lobby is trying to isolate Pakistan within Washington’s power corridors, which may jeopardize the sale of more F16 to Pakistan. If so, Pakistan should seek to purchase Sukhoi Su-35 fighter jets that are far more advanced than the F-16s. The Russian-made jets could be a great asset for Pakistan Air Force.

The general comparison between the Russia’s Su-35 Fighter and America’s F-16 Fighting Falcon shows that with properly trained pilots and support from ground controllers or AWACs, the Su-35 is an extremely formidable threat to Western Aircraft.

Over the years, the F-16 has evolved from a lightweight visual range dogfighter into a potent multi-role warplane that flies a gamut of missions ranging from the suppression of enemy air defences to air superiority. Though it has been operational since 1980, the “Falcon” continues to evolve and will remain in service with the US Air Force and other militaries for decades to come.

But while the F-16 remains a potent fighter, potential adversaries have caught up—the latest Russian aircraft like the Sukhoi Su-35 can match or exceed the Falcon in many respects. The F-16 doesn’t have the latest upgraded massive active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar nor can the F-16 usually lob the AIM-120 missile from high speeds and altitudes.

The US Air Force F-16s are not currently fitted with an AESA and are at a severe disadvantage versus the Su-35 or other advanced Flanker derivatives. With an AESA, the F-16 could probably hold its own against the Su-35 at longer ranges—but it would still be a challenge. At shorter ranges, it comes down to pilot skill and the performance of each jet’s high off-boresight missiles. The advent of missiles like the R-73 and AIM-9Xhave turned visual range fights into mutually assured destruction scenarios.

While the Su-35’s thrust vectoring gives it an edge at very low speeds, it’s not an insurmountable problem for an expert F-16 pilot—who knows how to exploit his or her aircraft to the fullest—to overcome. The bottom line is that the Su-35 is an extremely capable aircraft. With regard to the F-16s or Su-35s, the matter of Pakistan of adding additional fighters to its current fleet might come down to mundane matters of what is financially feasible.

Currently, the Indian Air force (IAF) is far larger with about 740 combat aircraft versus the Pakistan Air Force’s (PAF) approximate 400 aircraft, but everything is not as it seems.

What at first glance seems overwhelming odds against the PAF on closer examination does not seem as overwhelming. For instance, the IAF has far lower serviceability of its aircraft. Indian pilot training as evidenced by Red Flag exercises with the US is also not yet up to par with the PAF and their maintenance crews are not as diligent. Their present Russian/Soviet technology is generally less reliable and less effective and a large part of their fleet of MiG-21s and MiG-27s are outdated.

PAF aircraft are either of Western stock or Chinese and are far more maintenance friendly. Pakistan has also been upgrading their aircraft massively and have incorporated a complex combination of technology from across the globe – from China to Brazil, from South Africa to the US. PAF pilot training is on par with the best in the world and its maintenance crews are trained on the level of Western maintenance crews.

The large number of IAF crashes because of low level of maintenance crew is indicative of this acute problem with one of the highest crash rates among Air Forces of the world. What compounds this problem is the age of large sections of the Indian fleet, which has large numbers of MiG-21s and MiG-27s that are, besides the Bisons, highly outdated and are sometimes referred to as “Flying Coffins” by their pilots.

Pakistan, on the other hand has a better pilot-to-aircaft ratio than the IAF — meaning it could sustain a greater sortie rate over a protracted conflict. PAF aircraft are also “pimped” in that they have been extensively modified. Thus, while on paper PAF is flying ancient Mirages that were bought second-hand from the Australians, when one actually examines any such model, one is surprised at how extensively they have been rebuilt – almost from scratch and the hardware is extremely lethal.

Other than the secretive BVR AAMs, the PAF has extensively incorporated the strike element into its Mirages, at a level only matched by the IAF’s Mirage-2000s and Su-30 FLANKERs, and even then some of the equipment has no IAF equivalent.

Pakistan should continue its policy of quality over quantity as it is the only way to keep an equilibrium in its hostile environment and to secure the nation’s existence. Additionally, Pakistan should keep all options open as sovereignty and independence comes first, rather than becoming affiliated to a particular group or alliance.

This is a feel good article for Pakistanis and PAF fans but not quiet grounded in reality. If I was grading this as a paper, its lack of supporting evidence to back up claims such as "The large number of IAF crashes because of low level of maintenance crew is indicative of this acute problem with one of the highest crash rates among Air Forces of the world." would earn it a D at best.
The article is full of inconsistent standards being applied for IAF vs PAF. Their Mig-21 Bisons have been just as extensively modified as have our Mirages for eg. Partly to blame also seems to be the lack on knowledge about the adversary it is trying to undermine. One could go point by point to counter the rosy picture being painted in this article but I would suggest Pakistanis not to fall into a false sense of security or underestimate the IAF. That would be a huge folly.