Opinion: Pakistan must become an authoritarian state to progress

[Pakistan Space Agency]

And then die like the Soviet Union and Saddam's Hussein's Iraq or repeat 1971?

 

[Aspen]

it is not useless because it masks incompetence of the Pakistani army generals
incompetence (not in military matters) in the realm of administering a country

Rule by consensus will never work in this part of the world, especially not in Pakistan.

Civilian leaders are not cut out of right the stuff that is needed to rule a country as difficult as Pakistan.

You need an iron fist to accomplish anything meaningful in Pakistan and military is the only group in Pakistan that can realistically do that.

If you have any hopes of getting Pakistan out of current mess, you are going to need an authoritarian leader who doesn't care what anyone thinks and who doesn't have to deal with elections nonsense. Even Imran Khan himself said this recently that country will not progress with elections every 5 years. Pakistan must become an authoritarian state to progress. Anyone who is being honest about Pakistan progressing in a serious way will agree on this. Everything else has already been tried and failed.

The guy that everyone in Pakistan is pinning their future hopes on is Imran Khan and even he himself said recently that Pakistan cannot progress with elections every 5 years. This should be a wake up call for everyone like you how much deep shit we are actually in.

 

[nahtanbob]

Rule by consensus will never work in this part of the world, especially not in Pakistan.

Civilian leaders are not cut out of right the stuff that is needed to rule a country as difficult as Pakistan.

You need an iron fist to accomplish anything meaningful in Pakistan and military is the only group in Pakistan that can realistically do that.

If you have any hopes of getting Pakistan out of current mess, you are going to need an authoritarian leader who doesn't care what anyone thinks and who doesn't have to deal with elections nonsense. Even Imran Khan himself said this recently that country will not progress with elections every 5 years. Pakistan must become an authoritarian state to progress. Anyone who is being honest about Pakistan progressing in a serious way will agree on this. Everything else has already been tried and failed.

The guy that everyone in Pakistan is pinning their future hopes on is Imran Khan and even he himself said recently that Pakistan cannot progress with elections every 5 years. This should be a wake up call for everyone like you how much deep shit we are actually in.

you make my point precisely. iron fist works when you know what needs to be done or what cannot be done. you need to pick your fights wisely. there is little evidence that pakistani army brass can make the right calls. they are schooled in art of warfare not politics, economics or culture.

 

[Peace be there]

expand...

Authoritarian rule has its share of problems as well. Recently we r getting blind by china's success but there r too many failures of authoritarian rules to ignore. For example iraq, iran, gulf states. Take the oil out of them and they will disolve within a year.

Who will guarantee that supreme leader will be working for interest of the nation.

Imagine someone like zardari or north koreas leader comes to power ...

Infact if u study deep a lot of problems are due to interventions in democracy. Sharief zardari altaf all are gift of armed forces and were never a true leaders. They were created to keep politicians fighting with each other.

 

[nahtanbob]

Authoritarian rule has its share of problems as well. Recently we r getting blind by china's success but there r too many failures of authoritarian rules to ignore. For example iraq, iran, gulf states. Take the oil out of them and they will disolve within a year.

Who will guarantee that supreme leader will be working for interest of the nation.

Imagine someone like zardari or north koreas leader comes to power ...

Infact if u study deep a lot of problems are due to interventions in democracy. Sharief zardari altaf all are gift of armed forces and were never a true leaders. They were created to keep politicians fighting with each other.

They had their share of generals - none of them achieved much in spite of billions of foreign aid

 

[Indos]

Myanmar has come back to authoritarian rule. Are you happy now ?

 

[Mujahid Memon]

Pakistan's problems are not due to democracy but due to British imposed colonial pseudo democracy which we never changed in 75 yrs.

 

[Adonis]

Opinion: Pakistan must become an authoritarian state to progress


73 years after ..we are still figuring out what to become.....

Pakistan must become modern....in thinking, education, conduct......free from Generals in order to progress.

 

[jupiter2007]

I posted this in the Musharraf thread but I'm gonna post it here too



Pakistan needs to be ruled by the military and it has always been better this way. Military knows how to run this country with an iron fist and that is when Pakistan as a nation will progress.

Democracy only works in countries where your population is intelligent enough to make sensible decisions. If your awaam is foolish and easily manipulated, democracy is a like a bomb waiting to go off. Putting decisions in the hands of your foolish awaam will ruin your nation and criminals will loot a weak democracy and corrupt it to the core. Politicians are so busy trying to gain power for themselves that they will make up fake scandals to create opposition. These criminal politicians will do everything they can to prevent, block, and slow down the gov't from implementing obvious and basic reforms that will help the nation. Democracy in Pakistan is a curse that will hold this nation back from achieving its full potential. China would never have become China if it was a democracy.

Military should take full power of every aspect of the state of Pakistan and root out all these corrupt criminals and mafia with an iron fist.

Shoot everyone in the bhutto, sharif and zardari family.

Every transaction greater than 500Rs requires CNIC, or NTN. Every business need to register and get a proper license.

Karachi under federal rule. Hyderabad new capital of Sindh.

Hazara province.

South Punjab province. Create a new city adjacent to Multan that will act as the capital.

Spend 5% of GDP on health. Spend 5% of GDP on education.

New Pakistan requires a new constitution.

Pakistan is now a one party authoritarian state, with the government having total control.

Proceed to liquidate the old order, wipe out the political elite and acquire all their lands and buisnesses.

Televised hangings and amputations of criminals who laundered billions of rupees from the international exchequer on PTV and all the world to see.

Privatize steel mill

MRAP for soldiers on Durand line

Media ethics will be strictly enforced any journalist who is a repeat offender will get his license revoked and will do 5 years in prison

Tough action against international NGO's stepping outside their mandate

High taxes on property above a certain value

Decrease redtape for setting up business

A purge in judiciary against Iftikhar elements

Abolish feudalism

Capital Punishment for corrupt politicians and high level officials

Increase our lobbying in the Gulf, America and the EU

I already wrote all that in this vary forum 10 years ago.

 

[Musalman]

I posted this in the Musharraf thread but I'm gonna post it here too



Pakistan needs to be ruled by the military and it has always been better this way. Military knows how to run this country with an iron fist and that is when Pakistan as a nation will progress.

No it should be a democracy. Five year , free and fair elections. YOu will see that all the corrupts will be kicked our.

Democracy only works in countries where your population is intelligent enough to make sensible decisions. If your awaam is foolish and easily manipulated, democracy is a like a bomb waiting to go off. Putting decisions in the hands of your foolish awaam will ruin your nation and criminals will loot a weak democracy and corrupt it to the core. Politicians are so busy trying to gain power for themselves that they will make up fake scandals to create opposition. These criminal politicians will do everything they can to prevent, block, and slow down the gov't from implementing obvious and basic reforms that will help the nation. Democracy in Pakistan is a curse that will hold this nation back from achieving its full potential. China would never have become China if it was a democracy.

No it works for everyone. If you think you are stupid then I can not say any thing. Majority of the people are intelligent. There was a time PPP was the main party in punjab now they are no more. So people are intelligent enough to understand and vote.

Military should take full power of every aspect of the state of Pakistan and root out all these corrupt criminals and mafia with an iron fist.

Really are they going to rid of us of the land mafia????

Shoot everyone in the bhutto, sharif and zardari family.

On what charges and are they proven. At the moment only Musharaf is proven a traitor by the court. Shoot him first.

Every transaction greater than 500Rs requires CNIC, or NTN. Every business need to register and get a proper license.

500 so if I buy a burger I have to give my tax number I don't mind that. HOw about shifting 100% to debt card????

Karachi under federal rule. Hyderabad new capital of Sindh.

So you hate PPP

Hazara province.

I am for it but constitution gives us a process. Follow it.

South Punjab province. Create a new city adjacent to Multan that will act as the capital.

Process in this regard and regarding bahawalpur is completed as far as Punjab Assembly is concern. Why new city?? How old are you?? DO you know how much a new city cost????

Spend 5% of GDP on health. Spend 5% of GDP on education.

Agreed, in fact even more.

New Pakistan requires a new constitution.

Our constitution is beautiful and is the best thing our country has. Its 100% implementation is required.

Pakistan is now a one party authoritarian state, with the government having total control.

Which party !!!!!!!! You and I might not agree on that party, that is why we have multi party elections

Proceed to liquidate the old order, wipe out the political elite and acquire all their lands and buisnesses.

How ?????

Televised hangings and amputations of criminals who laundered billions of rupees from the international exchequer on PTV and all the world to see.

and get sanctioned by the whole world??? You need prove to hang a person

Privatize steel mill

Yes PIA, WAPDA, Suis all of the govt. owned Company. But are you willing to pay for stuff you are buying on 75% subsidy?????

MRAP for soldiers on Durand line

Well, border between Afghanistan and Pakistan should be a soft border. I agree on the fence and all other stuff for the time being but our ultimate goal should be peace in both countries and free movement of people.

Media ethics will be strictly enforced any journalist who is a repeat offender will get his license revoked and will do 5 years in prison

What do you mean by media ethics??

Tough action against international NGO's stepping outside their mandate

WHy allow them in first place????

High taxes on property above a certain value

How high and how much high value??

Decrease redtape for setting up business

Yes good but how. Our red tape is due to unnecessary audit in the system. I think with public hanging and I think you agree with NAB and unnecessary audit!!!! So sorry you can not decrease the red type

A purge in judiciary against Iftikhar elements

Yes all Justice Munirs, Ifthikars, Saqibs Nisars and other with judicial activism should be discouraged. This activism has hurt our economy more then anyone else.

Abolish feudalism

How ????

Capital Punishment for corrupt politicians and high level officials

But you have to prove they are guilty beyond doubt for capital punishment

Increase our lobbying in the Gulf, America and the EU

Lobbying for what?? Don't you think instead me divert the same money to education or health

 

[Chakar The Great]

Pakistan will disintegrate if tries to become authoritarian state.



We need to improve democracy and strengthen institutes.

 

[Goenitz]

@Musalman
good views
I will just add
1. we need smaller units/provinces to rule efficiently. We need more UC/Nazims role than MPAs and MNAs to spend funding. No matter how just, wise and nobel you are, you cannot govern whole province by sitting in a specific city.
2. Accountability, merit and Justice. Induct more Judges and run court 24 hours.
3. Ban guns except few like NZ. Just make State supremacy to use violence. Improve your police. As it is police which establish Islamabad writ on a far village, say in Tharparkar.
Thats it. Now replace Islamabad with democratic/socialist/communist/dictatorship govt and it doesn't matter.
@Aspen @jamahir

 

[Musalman]

@Musalman
good views

Thank you

I will just add
1. we need smaller units/provinces to rule efficiently. We need more UC/Nazims role than MPAs and MNAs to spend funding. No matter how just, wise and nobel you are, you cannot govern whole province by sitting in a specific city.

Absolutely smaller unit are required but we have process of creating these smaller units.

2. Accountability, merit and Justice. Induct more Judges and run court 24 hours.

We need a controlled environment. Accountability via NAB and Audit department has ruined this country.

3. Ban guns except few like NZ. Just make State supremacy to use violence. Improve your police. As it is police which establish Islamabad writ on a far village, say in Tharparkar.

100%

Thats it. Now replace Islamabad with democratic/socialist/communist/dictatorship govt and it doesn't matter.
@Aspen @jamahir

 

[jamahir]

Now replace Islamabad with democratic/socialist/communist/dictatorship govt and it doesn't matter.
@Aspen @jamahir

Thanks for the tag.

Firstly, PM Imran was correct in saying recently that a political system where every five years there is the drama of elections and possible different political ideology ( party ) replacing the one that ruled for the earlier five years... such a system isn't good and efficient for the long term. Take the example of USA, a supposedly rich country but where real human problems like homelessness and unaffordable and inefficient healthcare have not been solved for decades. And just checked on Google. Even Singapore has a homelessness problem. So yes, a socialist or communist system that governs for the long term will be more able to remove such problems because socialism and communism are for enabling harmonious society and not for continuing a system where feudals and corporates can continue to hold social and economic superiority over others.

Secondly, and continuing from yesterday's thread about Afghanistan, a socialist or communist governance need not be a dictatorship. Yes, most socialist and communist experimental countries have been one party states but we can take the example of Libya and Venezuela as being societies where there was either no party remaining or a former-party-but-now-guidance-group remains to ensure socialism is what guides the new political and economic system. One of the aims of Communism is the "withering away of the State" i.e. there is no single entity called government and the people rule themselves. I will quote how Libya was thus arranged politically :

THE GREEN BOOK presents the ultimate solution to the problem of the instrument of government, and indicates for the masses the path upon which they can advance from the age of dictatorship to that of genuine democracy.

This new theory is based on the authority of the people, without representation or deputation. It achieves direct democracy in an orderly and effective form. It is superior to the older attempts at direct democracy which were impractical because they lacked popular organizations at base levels.

POPULAR CONFERENCES AND PEOPLE'S COMMITTEES

Popular Conferences are the only means to achieve popular democracy. Any system of government contrary to this method, the method of Popular Conferences, is undemocratic. All the prevailing systems of government in the world today will remain undemocratic, unless they adopt this method. Popular Conferences are the end of the journey of the masses in quest of democracy.

Popular Conferences and People's Committees are the fruition of the people's struggle for democracy. Popular Conferences and People's Committees are not creations of the imagination; they are the product of thought which has absorbed all human experiments to achieve democracy.

Direct democracy, if put into practice, is indisputably the ideal method of government. Because it is impossible to gather all people, however small the population, in one place so that they can discuss, discern and decide policies, nations departed from direct democracy, which became an utopian idea detached from reality. It was replaced by various theories of government, such as representative councils, party-coalitions and plebiscites, all of which isolated the masses and prevented them from managing their political affairs.

These instruments of government - the individual, the class, the sect, the tribe, the parliament and the party struggling to achieve power have plundered the sovereignty of the masses and monopolized politics and authority for themselves.

THE GREEN BOOK guides the masses to an unprecedented practical system of direct democracy. No two intelligent people can dispute the fact that direct democracy is the ideal, but until now no practical method for its implementation has been devised. The Third Universal Theory, however, now provides us with a practical approach to direct democracy. The problem of democracy in the world will finally be solved. All that is left before the masses now is the struggle to eliminate all prevailing forms of dictatorial governments, be they parliament, sect, tribe, class, one-party system, two-party system or multi-party system, which falsely call themselves democracies.

True democracy has but one method and one theory. The dissimilarity and diversity of the systems claiming to be democratic do, in fact, provide evidence that they are not so. Authority of the people has but one face which can only be realized through Popular Conferences and People's Committees. There can be no democracy without Popular Conferences and Committees everywhere.

First, the people are divided into Basic Popular Conferences. Each Basic Popular Conference chooses its secretariat. The secretariats of all Popular Conferences together form Non-Basic Popular Conferences. Subsequently, the masses of the Basic Popular Conferences select administrative People's Committees to replace government administration. All public institutions are run by People's Committees which will be accountable to the Basic Popular Conferences which dictate the policy and supervise its execution. Thus, both the administration and the supervision become the people's and the outdated definition of democracy - democracy is the supervision of the government by the people - becomes obsolete. It will be replaced by the true definition: Democracy is the supervision of the people by the people.

All citizens who are members of these Popular Conferences belong, vocationally and functionally, to various sectors and have, therefore, to form themselves into their own professional Popular Conferences in addition to being, by virtue of citizenship, members of the Basic Popular Conferences or People's Committees. Subjects dealt with by the Popular Conferences and People's Committees will eventually take their final shape in the General People's Congress, which brings together the Secretariats of the Popular Conferences and People's Committees. Resolutions of the General People's Congress, which meets annually or periodically, are passed on to the Popular Conferences and People's Committees, which undertake the execution of those resolutions through the responsible committees, which are, in turn, accountable to the Basic Popular Conferences.

The General People's Congress is not a gathering of persons or members such as those of parliaments but, rather, a gathering of the Popular Conferences and People's Committees.

Thus, the problem of the instrument of government is naturally solved, and all dictatorial instruments disappear. The people become the instrument of government, and the dilemma of democracy in the world is conclusively solved.

WHO SUPERVISES THE CONDUCT OF SOCIETY?

The question arises: who has the right to supervise society, and to point out deviations that may occur from the laws of society? Democratically, no one group can claim this right on behalf of society. Therefore, society alone supervises itself. It is dictatorial for any individual or group to claim the right of the supervision of the laws of the society, which is, democratically, the responsibility of the society as a whole. This can be arrived at through the democratic instrument of government that results from the organization of the society itself into Basic Popular Conferences, and through the government of these people through People's Committees and the General People's Congress - the national congress - where Secretariats of the Popular Conferences and the People's Committees convene. In accordance with this theory, the people become the instrument of government and, in turn, become their own supervisors. Society thus secures self-supervision over its laws.

And as I said before, such Direct Democracy based political system has to be guided in some societies ( like India and Pakistan ) by progressive socialist / communist thought because historically and currently such societies have leaders who are regressive - socially and economically. For example, honor killings in India and Pakistan can be ordered by "community elders" and feudals and corporate leaders lead economically lavish lives while many others have to live in misery. So such leaders cannot be allowed any longer and this will be ensured by an intellectuals group which guides the country. This won't be a party, just a guidance group.

Thirdly, another aim of Communism is abolition of the traditional money system. Cuba it seems has an internal currency system and one for foreign visitors. I have proposed a new economic system that retains the welfare state aspect but also will ensure that no person can be economically superior to another i.e. no rich and no poor. I have described that system in this thread. The OP there and further discussion there.

The political system and the economic system can be applied to any society. In fact Elon Musk has said that Direct Democracy is the ideal political system for near-future Mars settlements.

 

[Black.Mamba]

And then die like the Soviet Union and Saddam's Hussein's Iraq or repeat 1971?

Pakistan only deserves to be a monarchy under the House of Sharif. All hail the king or maybe the queen these days.