Operations in Dir and Buner

[Xeric]

These loyalty issues are bound to come up if the PA gets serious about taking on the Talibs.
This is probably one of the major reasons why they were reluctant to do so in the first place.

I'm willing to bet that the current action is being conducted by troops whose hometowns lie as far from the battle zone as possible.

Hey bunny, try to find out the class composition of FC NWFP. Similarly FC Baluchistan also intakes its manpower from the area it operates, it makes thing easier and more dedicated, as opposed to your false claim.

Please don't come up with stuff which doesn't really exists! i know you are having a hard time, otherwise.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Not FC, the PA troops.

But if the FC, drawn from the villages and towns of FATA and PATA, is willing to fight, and used as the primary ground force, why would the PA have any issues?

I would think that if any institution were to fracture, the FC would be the first (based on issues related to ethnic and tribal bonds) But we have not seen the FC fall apart (though desertions have occurred) and it has in fact improved tremendously as a COIN force.

That said, it is no secret the Military wants to play a small COIN role, and leave it up to the FC and local law enforcement.

 

[Rabbit.Rabbit]

Read the post enigma. Its PA, not FC.

FC had a lot of problems early on as AM has just mentioned - desertions, kidnappings, etc. etc. but they seem to be getting sorted out.

 

[Xeric]

Not FC, the PA troops.

Now if you are asking for the ORBAT to see where the units are coming from, you aren't getting that, but for now: PA operates anywhere within Pakistan, with its units having a certain percentage of specific groups. And this never has affected any unit operating anywhere. Why don't you think the PA as a whole should have bunked when it was asked to go and kill 'Muslims' as PA is an Islamic Army?

 

[Xeric]

FC had a lot of problems early on as AM has just mentioned - desertions, kidnappings, etc. etc. but they seem to be getting sorted out.

Didn't the world's most elite military had problems early on-Domestic Violence, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) etc etc?

 

[batmannow]

But if the FC, drawn from the villages and towns of FATA and PATA, is willing to fight, and used as the primary ground force, why would the PA have any issues?

I would think that if any institution were to fracture, the FC would be the first (based on issues related to ethnic and tribal bonds) But we have not seen the FC fall apart (though desertions have occurred) and it has in fact improved tremendously as a COIN force.

That said, it is no secret the Military wants to play a small COIN role, and leave it up to the FC and local law enforcement.

AgNoStIc MuSliM;SIR
how many times we keep playing , the same game?
from last 8 years or so, FC was used in FATA !
what is the result?
insurgyncy is almost triplled already?
desertions made FC , the most voulnrable force suffering with dejection & moral decline, it also had put PAKARMY in a preasure cooker like situation, WETHER its BAJUR, or southern WAZIRSTAN ,in the end PAKARMY had to take all the combat missions in its own hands. why?
because FC wasnt been able to take the charge!

i guss, its important that, pakistan SHOULD BUILD a dynamic COMBAT Force permently situated in FATA! with all that mountain combat training , special equipment needed to win the WAR?

 

[roadrunner]

Useless really.

Offensives have been done and tried before by not only PA, but previous superpowers. All it does is stir people up.

Deals are the best way to keep as much peace as possible, until conditions turn more favourable to extinguish the radical strains of Islam implanted during the 80s there (along with the foreigners).

 

[parihaka]

But if the FC, drawn from the villages and towns of FATA and PATA, is willing to fight, and used as the primary ground force, why would the PA have any issues?

I would think that if any institution were to fracture, the FC would be the first (based on issues related to ethnic and tribal bonds) But we have not seen the FC fall apart (though desertions have occurred) and it has in fact improved tremendously as a COIN force.

That said, it is no secret the Military wants to play a small COIN role, and leave it up to the FC and local law enforcement.

Which is why the US aid should be given directly to the FC in the form of training and equipment, including their own helicopters.

 

[S-2]

"Sorry to burst your bubble, but analysis arguing the PA's susceptibility to fracturing, and hence the reluctance to engage more aggressively or engage at all, has been around for a long time now."

How long?

"Riedel has offered nothing new here."

No, he hasn't. As to who, I'd contend there's a difference between seeing this as a theoretical possibility in some exercise from the past or an operational consideration with tangible impact. Mumbai would be the divide. I can't think of anybody here who was in front of me on this issue and I still think it's in play.

I know I stomped Riedel but there's no telling when he came to this conclusion versus when he chose or was authorized to share his thoughts with the press.

 

[Hellfire]

Useless really.

Offensives have been done and tried before by not only PA, but previous superpowers. All it does is stir people up.

Deals are the best way to keep as much peace as possible, until conditions turn more favourable to extinguish the radical strains of Islam implanted during the 80s there (along with the foreigners).

but you have just seen the results of a deal done in spirit of your amicable settlements ..... diplomacy has to be backed by display of and willingness to use force.

 

[Imran Khan]

NWFP govt, TNSM hold talks in Timergara
Updated at: 1520 PST, Friday, May 01, 2009
TIMERGARA: An important meeting is underway between Tehreek-e-Nifaz-e-Shariat-e-Muhammadi (TNSM) chief Maulana Sufi Mohammad and representatives of the NWFP government here on Friday.

In the meeting that started soon after Friday prayer, Senator Zahid Khan and provincial Information Minister Mian Iftikhar Hussain are representing the government. Both sides will discuss law and order situation in Swat and Malakand and formation of Dar-ul-Qaza.

According to sources, Maulana Sufi Mohammad has demanded that the government should halt the military operation and appoint Qazis in the Dar-ul-Qaza. Sources said that both sides are optimistic on the outcome of the talks

 

[Imran Khan]

Troops gain ground in Buner, Lower Dir: ISPR



Friday, May 01, 2009
14 militants die; Lower Dir situation under control; militants take people of Sultanwas hostage
ISLAMABAD: Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) Director General Maj-Gen Athar Abbas on Thursday said that 24 militants had been killed so far in the military operation in Buner and security forces had cleared Daggar of the militants.

Addressing a media conference, he said due to the successful operation, launched jointly by the FC and the Pakistan Army, life was returning to normalcy in Lower Dir. He said the number of casualties might increase in Buner and Lower Dir.

He said security around Daggar was increased to provide more security to the area people and to facilitate linkage to the ground forces. The ISPR DG said the militants were still holding positions at Sultanwas and Pir Baba. “People of Sultanwas are under great distress and have been held hostage, as they are not being allowed to move out of the area.”

He said four of the two explosives-laden vehicles approaching towards troops were targeted and destroyed in Lower Dir, while the other two fled from the scene, causing no damage to the troops. The FC has established its headquarters at Daggar, he added.

He said the people of Lower Dir, where the situation was well in control, had been fully backing the troops and had heaved a sigh of relief. He said the troops in Buner re-launched the operation in the early hours on Thursday and regained the control of Balandari Pass and Ambela heights after facing a stiff resistance from the militants.

Meanwhile, he said, the militants attacked security forces’ post in the Jawari Pass area and were given an exemplary response in which four militants were killed, while the rest fled from the scene.

During the crossfire with the attackers, one FC personnel sustained injuries, he said. He said on Wednesday night, the militants set the Pir Baba police station ablaze. He added that the militants were present in high number in Sultanwas and Pir Baba Ziarat areas. The ISPR DG said the operation was deliberately kept at a slower pace due to the existence of improvised explosives devices (IEDs) in the area.

Giving update on the situation in Swat, he said the government and the security forces had been exercising maximum restraint despite clear violations of peace deal by the Taliban. He said the Taliban were carrying out patrolling, setting up check-posts, kidnapping for ransom and killing and damaging private properties, violating the peace deal.

He said despite all odds, the government had been sincerely working for the implementation of the peace deal in letter and spirit to achieve peace by avoiding any colossal loss to life and property.

Responding to a question, the ISPR DG said the government had already condemned and rejected the drone attack policy. “It hurts more than it helps,” he said. He dispelled the impression that the ammunition available with the militants could harm the fighter aircraft.

He, however, said the helicopters used for engaging the militants were fired upon. Replying to another query, he said: “We need to have modern gadgets and weaponry to effectively deal with the militants.”

The list of demands included fast-moving helicopters, surveillance aircraft, better night-vision devices and attack helicopters, he added. The ISPR DG said curfew had been relaxed from Thursday, from 8:00 am to 1:00 pm, in Lower Dir. -Agencies

Our correspondent adds from Daggar: Security forces claimed to have strengthened their grip on Daggar town and secured some of the key positions from the militants in the Buner district.

Sources said the security forces continued to shell the suspected hideouts of the militants in Koga, Ambela, Sultanwas, Salarzo, Bhai Killay, Sura, Nawagai, Agaray, Swarai and Daggar, by using heavy arms and weaponry.

It was reported that the security forces advanced to areas of Pir Baba, Bagra, Jewar and other upper parts of the district. The militants were also using heavy weapons and arms against the security forces.

After escalation in the operation, the local people were confined to their homes. All the hospitals, schools, markets and filling stations remained closed, while the ongoing examinations were also stopped.

In some areas, the locals started migration to safer areas in Mardan and Swabi districts on foot while crossing the mountains. It was learnt that preparations were under way to set up camps for the displaced persons of Buner on the Mardan-Charsadda Road and the Jalala areas.

Meanwhile, the spokesman for the Swat Taliban, Muslim Khan, claimed to have taken hostage about 150 security forces’ personnel in the Jor area. He, however, said all of them were later released, but weapons were taken from them. He also claimed to have captured a camp in the same area.

 

[Imran Khan]

Taking back Buner and Dir

—Najmuddin A Shaikh

The army, hopefully, will not stop its operation until it has disarmed the Taliban. But to be able to continue this operation, the army and the government will need public support and for that the media has to play a far more constructive role than it has been inclined to play so far

By the time this column appears, the Buner operation will have been on for 72 hours. The ISPR spokesperson, during his press conference, played taped conversations between warlord Fazlullah and his commanders in Buner, where Fazlullah is asking them to stage a fake withdrawal and lie low with their arms.

This clearly indicated that the Taliban had no intention of withdrawing from the area. The Taliban incursion had also brought Uzbek and other foreign militants into Buner; some reports, perhaps exaggerated, suggested that militants from southern Punjab too were present in there.

The Lower Dir operation will also continue since reports from the area suggest that few of the 35,000 or more people who fled the fighting have been able to return and the sound of gunfire still reverberates in the area. The Taliban are said to be in control of the eastern part of the district that links up with Swat and they are also said to be running a training camp in one of the many mountain valleys that make up Lower Dir.

In Swat, unconfirmed reports suggest that the Taliban have kidnapped five members of the Tablighi Jama’at, and have also taken four policemen hostage in other parts of Swat.

It seems that the provincial government’s efforts to locate Sufi Muhammad and to resume negotiations regarding the appointment of judges for the Darul Qaza have remained fruitless. The Sufi been incommunicado since Saturday, casting doubts on the efficacy of the role that he and his TNSM were to play in ensuring peace in Swat after implementation of the Nizam-e Adl. Army action in Swat in the near future appears inevitable or at least should be, given the clear indications that have now been received from Maulvi Sufi Mohammad and his deputies that they want far more than the Nizam-e Adl.

Lala Afzal Khan, the ANP politician from Swat, is right in claiming that this deal will collapse and that the only answer is military action against the Taliban.

Meanwhile in Karachi, widespread violence erupted after a series of smaller incidents, with many localities affected and more than 25 persons killed. Initial reports suggest that the show of force arranged by the Rangers and the police in the affected areas did not have the intended effect. A minister has claimed that the prime minister has issued shoot to kill orders to law enforcement authorities in Karachi and that there are hopes that the situation will improve soon. That is optimistic.

There is little doubt that the violence in Karachi is linked to the situation in the north. There is also little doubt that in the days to come, the Taliban and their cohorts, in a bid to reduce the pressure in the north, will increase the number of suicide attacks and the general incitement of violence and intimidation throughout Pakistan.

Civil society has become more aware of the “existential” threat that the Taliban pose to Pakistan. Recent demonstrations in Lahore and planned demonstrations in Karachi and other major cities bear testimony to this. But as one Swati said to me bitterly some months ago, there was an even greater awareness in Swat when Talibanisation started. The people were prepared to resist the Taliban with force of arms but as Taliban power grew and as the authorities remained indifferent, the will to resist drained away. Political leaders, with the notable exception of Afzal Lala, fled the area; policemen resigned or refused to, in the absence of support, tackle the well armed and well protected men of Fazlullah.

Two questions now arise. Will the military operation be sustained and taken to its logical conclusion — the disarming of the Taliban and a dialogue thereafter? And will the people remain steadfast at a time when the economic crisis has added to the ranks of the unemployed and when dissatisfaction with the government is high?

President Zardari has issued a statement calling upon “the entire nation to give pause to their political differences...rise to the occasion and give full support to our security forces in this critical hour.” This is a plea that will find strong backing when he meets with Presidents Obama and Karzai in Washington on May 5. It will be to the Americans and our other allies that we will have to look for the economic support that can mitigate in some measure economic difficulties and for the equipment the military will need to pursue its current campaign. That assistance, particularly economic, is sorely needed. We need to create more employment opportunities especially in FATA.

This raises a further question. Can the current wave of anti-Americanism be brought under control or will the media continue to flog the view that America is using the war on terror as a pretext for engineering the disintegration of Pakistan and getting hold of our nuclear assets?

In recent days, the tone of the commentators has changed somewhat but it is far from certain that they have absorbed fully the danger that Talibanisation poses, or that this Talibanisation is independent of developments in Afghanistan, or that not only the USA and its western allies but also such close friends of Pakistan like China and Saudi Arabia have expressed concern about the perceived inability of the government to counter the Taliban.

The flogging video created a reaction that even the most sympathetic of commentators could not condone initially, but since then many have termed the video a forgery or a conspiracy to derail the Swat deal. In our current state of denial, perhaps this explanation will be accepted.

What we need to bring to the attention of the people is the exact nature of the system that the Taliban want to bring not only to Malakand Division but to all of Pakistan and then of course to the rest of South Asia. Yesterday I had the horrific experience of watching a video online that has apparently been circulated by the Taliban to show how they deal with alleged spies. Suffice it to say that it depicts the sort of cruelty that is totally unacceptable even in the most violence prone society.

Perhaps this video is a forgery though it has an air of authenticity about it. Perhaps it depicts acts of common criminals who have found the Taliban label a convenient cover for their activities. But those of our commentators who do not have conveniently short memories should recall for the benefit of their viewers that Taliban rule in Afghanistan meant the flogging of any woman in Herat and Kabul who dared venture out of her home without a “mehram” male escort and the caning of the Pakistani football team when its members appeared on the Kandahar football field wearing shorts.

Perhaps they should be highlighting more the introduction of the same system in Taliban-controlled Swat along with the signs that have appeared all over Swat: barber shops banning the shaving of beards and the banning of women’s presence in female tailoring shops.

The point is that Buner and Lower Dir do indicate that the penny has dropped for all power centres in Pakistan and they are determined to fight this menace with all the means at their disposal. The army, hopefully, will not stop its operation until it has disarmed the Taliban. But to be able to continue this operation, the army and the government will need public support and for that the media has to play a far more constructive role than it has been inclined to play so far.

A long and difficult struggle lies ahead. It remains to be seen if we, the people of Pakistan, have the resolve to sustain this fight; and most importantly, if the media will help sustain it.

The writer is a former foreign secretary

 

[Hellfire]

howsoever do TTP manage to take such a large number of hostages of security personnel can someone elucidate? it can only be possible if there is voluntary surrender by majority of troops in sympathy with ideals being propogated by TTP

I have never heard of such instances in ANY CI-grid operation where security forces surrender en-masse. seems the operations are a farce.

 

[Imran Khan]

you believe Muslim khan? he is no 1 layer of Pakistan now when we kick them he spread this propaganda same as past were is any footage or image that 150 security personal surrender.tali ban are looking for small places now for hide from cobras .