Operation Tirah Valley | News & Updates

[waz]

Well done brothers and may the sacrifices of our fallen be never forgotten. Allah bless them all.

 

[Gryphon]

Despite heavy casualties, our brave soldiers are making good progresses in the area ..And also it is said Mangal Bagh is in the same area ... It would be a big blow to these rats if he is taken out ..........

97 militants killed , such a large number ... From where are they getting so many fighters at such a fast rate?

 

[Bratva]

The reason SSG were used here ( from what i heard ) was due to Extra ordinary Difficult terrain , and dug outs of Militants , regular infantry would have be slaughtered on these slopes . SSG were a distraction(most of them knew they may not return alive) , and they did their Job , only due to this factor the casualty rate of regular infantry was low around 17 ( from last i heard) . and the SSG causalities are still not confirmed but they are between 3-7 with one confirmed captain.

Than what are aerial options for? Precision strikes from F-16 and cobras?

 

[F.O.X]

Than what are aerial options for? Precision strikes from F-16 and cobras?

You need Data(Co-ordinates ) for Ariel Strikes , otherwise chance of heavy Collateral Damage. that is why PAF is not used to its full extent.

 

[kbd-raaf]

To those who are conflicted about how SSG received this heavy damage ,

First of all they are Humans ( and this is not a Hollywood Movie where you send 5 men & they clear out whole area killing 100's of terrorists without getting hit ) , 2nd , SSG were never meant to be used as a First line of offense , they are covert operatives , they Strike at Night or from an angle no visible , and they are Damnn good at that job .

The reason SSG were used here ( from what i heard ) was due to Extra ordinary Difficult terrain , and dug outs of Militants , regular infantry would have be slaughtered on these slopes . SSG were a distraction(most of them knew they may not return alive) , and they did their Job , only due to this factor the casualty rate of regular infantry was low around 17 ( from last i heard) . and the SSG causalities are still not confirmed but they are between 3-7 with one confirmed captain.

Tirah is a very strategic Spot as it overlooks Tora bora ( The main Smuggling & Transport route from Afghanistan to Pakistan ) , it was under Ansar-ul-Aslam First ( Pro Pakistan Group) , but they were pushed back by TTP & its allies .

There were around 500 militants up there with half of them dead or injured , the operation will soon be over.

If the bolded part is true, then I believe Pakistanis should be in uproar.

I have met some of these men, undoubtedly equal to any of the best soldiers in the world, the fact that the PA asked them to throw away their lives on a suicide mission is simply disgusting.

Where was the PAF? Where was the CAS?

EDIT: These men should have been used to 'lase' targets etc, not to be on the forefront of an assault on an entrenched enemy.

Pakistani military planners need some serious re-education.

 

[Kashmiri Nationalist]

If the bolded part is true, then I believe Pakistanis should be in uproar.

I have met some of these men, undoubtedly equal to any of the best soldiers in the world, the fact that the PA asked them to throw away their lives on a suicide mission is simply disgusting.

Where was the PAF? Where was the CAS?

EDIT: These men should have been used to 'lase' targets etc, not to be on the forefront of an assault on an entrenched enemy.

Pakistani military planners need some serious re-education.

The motto of SAS, the British Special Forces is "Who dares wins". The army isn't a summer camp for recreation, it's a dangerous occupation of the highest nobility that one must dedicate themselves to. The best of the best weren't born the best. They trained, day and night, through hail and snow, to become members of the SSG. They knew the dangers of it, they knew they would be the first to respond to emergency situations, the first to be deployed in battles of high priority -- they were ready to sacrifice it all for the country.

In any operation there are casualties. The tactics of the terrorists, and the way they structure the land (tunnels, use of slopes as an advantage, dug outs, IEDs, multiple positions) would've made it extremely hard for regular infantry to gain a foothold at the start, and a higher casualty rate would be expected. The SSG is a force developed to be the first in battle, to deliver a decisive impact in the first few moments of battle, and then for the regular infantry to be established through that and take over.

Instead of trying to attack Pakistan at every opportunity, you should wake up and smell the coffee. The operation has been planned and conducted in a way to ensure the least possible casualties for soldiers and civilians -- air-raids were done, but cannot be fully effective as there is no credible "on the ground" intelligence in a bombing campaign. Iraq, Afghanistan and the Kosovo Wars are testament to that fact.

 

[Bratva]

You need Data(Co-ordinates ) for Ariel Strikes , otherwise chance of heavy Collateral Damage. that is why PAF is not used to its full extent.

And that's why people like me are crying from last few pages. The one who planned this whole op. Chittar maro us ko. because of following reasons.


1. In Sawat ops, SSW of PAF used to lase targets.

2. Sniper XR and Recon Pods on F-16 can accurately obtain data co-ordinates from above and can lase targets?

3. What the hell is modified C-130's for? They have IR and Laser tags in them?

4. if SSW operators can not lase tags from below,,,, than why not innovate and put SSW lase operators on helicopters and make them lase targets while sitting in a helicopter?

5. Last but not the least what collateral damage? Are civilians living on high peaks that a lame excuse of collateral damage is given?


If excuse is given that we don't have money to regularly maintain and fly such aerial assets and going to send soldiers in pickups and trucks than why not pull the soldiers out of FATA if you can't protect them due to lack of funds and money?


F.O.X sahab,,, Throwing away the lives of SSG and infantry like this is the major crime and negligence on part of upper echlons.

 

[Jango]

Here you go with the airstrikes:

•On Thursday, Pakistan Air Force (PAF) jets bombed Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) and Lakshar-e-Islam (LI) hideouts in Ghaibi Neeka area of Sipah and the Nakai area of Malikdinkhel in the Tirah valley, Khyber agency, killing two LI fighters and one TTP member.[3]

Courtesy Fatman17

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...-force-news-discussions-50.html#ixzz2PyMeuS53

SSG were a distraction(most of them knew they may not return alive) , and they did their Job

Stop making up stories. This is very much amusing.

So we use SSG as a distraction doll to throw around everywhere?

Lives of men are not so cheap.

 

[Last Hope]

I agree to the casualties being extraordinarily high. I would have first looked towards the planners, the Brigadier in charge.

However, there are other factors that should be taken into account. The strategic importance of militants, their weapons and numbers. If, God forbid, the valley is occupied by the TTP; then Kurram agency and Khyber agency would fall vulnerable to militant dominance - let alone Peshawar which stands at other end of Tirah.

If there were intelligence tip-offs of unusual activity in large numbers, this explains it. They have earlier tried to occupy the valley several times earlier too. This time, coming in large numbers, would've required a quick response with limited time for proper planning. The battle broke-out at night when the enemy fighters were already prepared and held their superior positions.

Another point to note is that Tirah lies along the Afghan border, where the supply of weapon and fighters is both undisturbed. The border should be bombarded break away the supply-line and giving less bullshit to take care of at frontline.


This is the terrain you are fighting in. It will not help Cobra operate at their maximum potential:

 

[F.O.X]

F.O.X sahab,,, Throwing away the lives of SSG and infantry like this is the major crime and negligence on part of upper echlons.

So we use SSG as a distraction doll to throw around everywhere?

Lives of men are not so cheap.

I am not the one Making the Decisions , nor have i planned this operation , I am just conveying you what i heard , whether you choose to believe it or not , is all up to you .

And This type of tactic was also used when attack on GHQ happened , Some SSG were distraction while others secured the room .

 

[kbd-raaf]

The motto of SAS, the British Special Forces is "Who dares wins". The army isn't a summer camp for recreation, it's a dangerous occupation of the highest nobility that one must dedicate themselves to. The best of the best weren't born the best. They trained, day and night, through hail and snow, to become members of the SSG. They knew the dangers of it, they knew they would be the first to respond to emergency situations, the first to be deployed in battles of high priority -- they were ready to sacrifice it all for the country.

In any operation there are casualties. The tactics of the terrorists, and the way they structure the land (tunnels, use of slopes as an advantage, dug outs, IEDs, multiple positions) would've made it extremely hard for regular infantry to gain a foothold at the start, and a higher casualty rate would be expected. The SSG is a force developed to be the first in battle, to deliver a decisive impact in the first few moments of battle, and then for the regular infantry to be established through that and take over.

Instead of trying to attack Pakistan at every opportunity, you should wake up and smell the coffee. The operation has been planned and conducted in a way to ensure the least possible casualties for soldiers and civilians -- air-raids were done, but cannot be fully effective as there is no credible "on the ground" intelligence in a bombing campaign. Iraq, Afghanistan and the Kosovo Wars are testament to that fact.

So all in all, your argument is simply that;

They are soldiers therefore dying is their job.

I am under no illusions. War is hell, and casualties can be expected.

BUT no SOF including the SSG is meant to be used in the 'super-infantry' role. These men are the best in their respective fields and cannot be asked to throw away their lives on suicide missions.

There are many strategies to take entrenched enemy positions, air power being crucial in all of them, the fact that it wasn't utilized cannot be excused at all.

I am not trying to attack Pakistan, I am trying to attack poor military planning.

 

[Kashmiri Nationalist]

Except they're not being used in the "super infantry" role. They're being dropped into a combat zone first, to deliver as much damage as they can, to allow regular infantry to gain a foothold. The whole premise of special forces is "suicide missions" - a la, missions with a high risk of death. You can't take entrenched positions when they're a bunch of underground tunnels that you don't where they exactly are, and more so, in a location where there are civilians. Soldiers sign up knowing of the danger of death, it is their job to protect civilian lives. There was a famous mission by British Commandos (I forget the name of the Op) that attacked a heavily defended German naval base in France, by heavily defended, I mean heavily defended. It was almost certain death, yet they all chose to go with it even when given the chance to choose not to. If it wasn't for that operation, D-Day may not have been as successful as it was.

 

[ExtraOdinary]

Except they're not being used in the "super infantry" role. They're being dropped into a combat zone first, to deliver as much damage as they can, to allow regular infantry to gain a foothold. The whole premise of special forces is "suicide missions" - a la, missions with a high risk of death. You can't take entrenched positions when they're a bunch of underground tunnels that you don't where they exactly are, and more so, in a location where there are civilians. Soldiers sign up knowing of the danger of death, it is their job to protect civilian lives. There was a famous mission by British Commandos (I forget the name of the Op) that attacked a heavily defended German naval base in France, by heavily defended, I mean heavily defended. It was almost certain death, yet they all chose to go with it even when given the chance to choose not to. If it wasn't for that operation, D-Day may not have been as successful as it was.

off the topic, are you talking about the raid on Dieppe? It was a suicide mission and not even remotely connected to D-Day.

 

[Kashmiri Nationalist]

off the topic, are you talking about the raid on Dieppe? It was a suicide mission and not even remotely connected to D-Day.

It depends on who you talk to. For a lot of people, it provided the text book for D Day.

 

[kbd-raaf]

Except they're not being used in the "super infantry" role. They're being dropped into a combat zone first, to deliver as much damage as they can, to allow regular infantry to gain a foothold. The whole premise of special forces is "suicide missions" - a la, missions with a high risk of death. You can't take entrenched positions when they're a bunch of underground tunnels that you don't where they exactly are, and more so, in a location where there are civilians. Soldiers sign up knowing of the danger of death, it is their job to protect civilian lives. There was a famous mission by British Commandos (I forget the name of the Op) that attacked a heavily defended German naval base in France, by heavily defended, I mean heavily defended. It was almost certain death, yet they all chose to go with it even when given the chance to choose not to. If it wasn't for that operation, D-Day may not have been as successful as it was.

Mate don't let your patriotism blind you. Learn to recognise mistakes where you see them.

Special Forces are special people who do special tasks. Tasks that require a high level of training etc. A well planned operation should utilise the strengths of such a force and certainly not exemplify its weaknesses.

Suicide missions certainly aren't the MO for any professional soldier. These guys are simply NOT meant to be filling the role of the regular infantry, i.e clearing and taking enemy positions.

Sometimes difficult and dangerous tasks need to be done and there are no other options, but in this case there WERE other options and they weren't utilised.