Operation Swift Retort by Alan Warnes

[Bilal.]

My main concern is that your proposed Block-2 upgrades and block-4 will stand against super sukhoi upgrade/ Mig-29 upgrade/latest Mirage-2000 and upcoming threats from the enemy, JF-17 is not jack of all trades or can't face these emerging threats from the enemy but PAF needs stop gap jets ASAP to replace our mirages and the best option will be either J-10C or Mig-35, than Project AZM will comes into play

A GaN AESA and EW plus advanced DRFM and networking equipped Thunder along with other upgrades with tech that would be available in the next 5 years will more than match all of the above.

 

[Ultima Thule]

A GaN AESA and EW plus advanced DRFM and networking equipped Thunder along with other upgrades with tech that would be available in the next 5 years will more than match all of the above.

and GAN BASED AESA and EW/DRFM are for free ????

 

[Bilal.]

and GAN BASED AESA and EW/DRFM are for free ????

I am not sure where it was alluded or why the discussion is now going on a tengent.

 

[Ultima Thule]

I am not sure where it was alluded or why the discussion is now going on a tengent.

oh bhai GAN BASED AESA and other emerging latest EW stuffs are more expansive than traditional Stuffs we have money to only to equipp with our upcoming Block-3, we have not enough money to equip Block-2 if we divert money to Block-2 up-gradation as you proposed this may effect Project AZMs

 

[Bilal.]

oh bhai GAN BASED AESA and other emerging latest EW stuffs are more expansive than traditional Stuffs we have money to only to equipp with our upcoming Block-3, we have not enough money to equip Block-2 if we divert money to Block-2 up-gradation as you proposed this may effect Project AZMs

The stop gap you were proposing will cost more. This approach is more feasible. Let’s say GaN AESA costs 4mil (tops!) and 4-5 mil more for other subsystem, that would be the added cost to a platform that will be built at home and already has infrastructure to support.

 

[The Raven]

oh bhai GAN BASED AESA and other emerging latest EW stuffs are more expansive than traditional Stuffs we have money to only to equipp with our upcoming Block-3, we have not enough money to equip Block-2 if we divert money to Block-2 up-gradation as you proposed this may effect Project AZMs

How do you know we only have enough money to equip Block III with GAN AESA? Successive ACMs of PAF have repeatedly said that all Block I and II aircraft will be upgraded to Block III standard. The ultimate goal will be to have all of the JF-17 fleet on a common standard.

 

[Ultima Thule]

The stop gap you were proposing will cost more. This approach is more feasible.

Block-1-2 are reaching mid of their life and i proposed NEW jets

 

[The Raven]

Block-1-2 are reaching mid of their life and i proposed NEW jets

They will undergo mid-life updates (MLU), much like the F-16s and almost any other fighter. Take for example how many times we've rebuilt the Mirages.

 

[Bilal.]

Block-1-2 are reaching mid of their life and i proposed NEW jets

SLEP/STAR type refurbishment is not back breakingly expensive compared to new induction. Specially for OEM (PAC).

 

[Ultima Thule]

How do you know we only have enough money to equip Block III with GAN AESA? Successive ACMs of PAF have repeatedly said that all Block I and II aircraft will be upgraded to Block III standard. The ultimate goal will be to have all of the JF-17 fleet on a common standard.

Can give me your source please i never heard this from any successive ACM?? can you prove it

They will undergo mid-life updates (MLU), much like the F-16s and almost any other fighter. Take for example how many times we've rebuilt the Mirages.

Block-2 upgrades needs lots internal internal Changes like wiring, slight increase of radome size if we are installing KLJ-7A LIQUID COOL AESA, and if we will Install AIR COOLED LFK-601 the radome remain same but LFK-601 has problem that it could not COOLED sufficiently at higher altitudes because thin air, and KLJ-7A need more space for COOLING equipment along side of AESA which means radome will have to change on block-2 for KLJ-7A

SLEP/STAR type refurbishment is not back breakingly expensive compared to new induction. Specially for OEM (PAC).

Ok,Ok but what AESA do you want to Install on Block-2 LFK-601 or KLJ-7A

 

[Bilal.]

Ok,Ok but what AESA do you want to Install on Block-2 LFK-601 or KLJ-7A

Same as block-3 if feasible.

 

[The Raven]

Can give me your source please i never heard this from any successive ACM?? can you prove it


Block-2 upgrades needs lots internal internal Changes like wiring, slight increase of radome size if we are installing KLJ-7A LIQUID COOL AESA, and if we will Install AIR COOLED LFK-601 the radome remain same but LFK-601 has problem that it could not COOLED sufficiently at higher altitudes because thin air, and KLJ-7A need more space for COOLING equipment along side of AESA which means radome will have to change on block-2 for KLJ-7A


Ok,Ok but what AESA do you want to Install on Block-2 LFK-601 or KLJ-7A

Come on man, the news in the past decade alone has reported plans to upgrade earlier Block I and II aircraft to Block III standard. To give just one example...

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/pakistan-wants-sell-its-vaunted-jf-17-fighter-jet-129472

There is very little change in the airframe between Block II and Block III, and the changes you have mentioned are not that difficult. The upgrade will be similar to the V upgrade for earlier block F-16s. It really isn't that difficult. A simple example, if we can upgrade and rebuild 50 year Mirages, don't you think we can do the same to Block I and II JF-17s?

 

[Ultima Thule]

Same as block-3 if feasible.

Then you need to increase internal space of radome because KLJ-7A AESA need a cooling equipment to cool radar

Come on man, the news in the past decade alone has reported plans to upgrade earlier Block I and II aircraft to Block III standard. To give just one example...

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/pakistan-wants-sell-its-vaunted-jf-17-fighter-jet-129472

There is very little change in the airframe between Block II and Block III, and the changes you have mentioned are not that difficult. The upgrade will be similar to the V upgrade for earlier block F-16s. It really isn't that difficult. A simple example, if we can upgrade and rebuild 50 year Mirages, don't you think we can do the same to Block I and II JF-17s?

did you read the article where it says PAF's ACM said they want to upgrade all its older vrsion of JFT to block-3 standard, extra weight of AESA and other stuff means block-1/2 can change their centre of gravity/center of pressure which we have to add more composite materials to stabilized block-2/1, can you look block-3 nosecone it is slightly longer and elongated, KLJ-7A have a 3 versions FIXED/Swatshplate (turning/twisting inside radome) and three array , last 2 of them has least chance to install on JFT-B-1/2, and fixed one need more power which means higher thrust engine need for JFT-B-1/2 to install, can it be possible???

 

[The Raven]

did you read the article where it says PAF's ACM said they want to upgrade all its older vrsion of JFT to block-3 standard, extra weight of AESA and other stuff means block-1/2 can change their centre of gravity/center of pressure which we have to add more composite materials to stabilized block-2/1, can you look block-3 nosecone it is slightly longer and elongated, KLJ-7A have a 3 versions FIXED/Swatshplate (turning/twisting inside radome) and three array , last 2 of them has least chance to install on JFT-B-1/2, and fixed one need more power which means higher thrust engine need for JFT-B-1/2 to install, can it be possible???

Yes it is possible. The JF-17 was designed for future upgrades in mind. Let me give you one example. At the 2010 Farnborough Airshow, the PAF personnel were stating back then that future upgrades include a chin mounted dedicated LDP hardpoint and AESA radar, with upgrade of previous Block aircraft...this was back in 2010!! I don't have the time to trawl through 10 years of news articles to prove something to you which is widely known.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Yes it is possible. The JF-17 was designed for future upgrades in mind. Let me give you one example. At the 2010 Farnborough Airshow, the PAF personnel were stating back then that future upgrades include a chin mounted dedicated LDP hardpoint and AESA radar, with upgrade of previous Block aircraft...this was back in 2010!! I don't have the time to trawl through 10 years of news articles to prove something to you which is widely known.

its more plausible that we will have only block-3 with AESA and other stuff than upgrades to block-1/2 to 3 standard current production of JF-17-B1/2 will close and i thinks this production line will switch into block-3 production line with new stuff then tell me how we upgrades block-1/2 without production line and Pakistan can't afford to open another (2nd) line/infrastructure to upgrade block-1/2 and don't assume that Pakistan able to do this with block-3 production line, its need other infrastructure/line to upgrade all block-1/2 to block-3 standard