Op-Ed: India, stop supporting Bangladesh until they cease ethnic cleansing against minorities

[Nilgiri]

So you will naturally find more people believing anti India conspiracies here. That doesn't make the country polarized.

Not what I have heard from my BD friends in real life. One of them in part of a well known family business in BD and has personally told me multiple times there is now heavy polarisation in BD (since esp the SHW "election"). People (on both sides) can tolerate it to some extent with the economic growth and semblance of stability that SHW has established....but no one really knows what will be enough to spark and incite society beyond that into various levels of turmoil and even bloodshed that could expose fractures that lead to who knows where in the end.

 

[UKBengali]

10 pilkhanas daily....as a minimum. It will be time for that when a non-SHW or non-BAL takes charge in the next cpl decades. So please go ahead and accomplish that and you can verify what happens for yourself.

Earth to Nilgiri, anyone there?

In case you are not paying attention, China will soon(~2030) become a superpower on the level of the US.

If you really think that China will allow a puny India to meddle in a country like BD, that China is now seriously investing in both economically and militarily, then you really need to take some medication.

 

[Awan68]

Mods should take note, this is a serious forum and every two bit idiot shouldnt be allowed to start a threard here...

 

[Bilal9]

India is bidder than Pakistan and Bangladesh you guys should give refuge chakmas.
Help your hindus in Bangladesh. Give them land in india.

Hindus in India now want to come back to Bangladesh. They have realized their mistake after going there - India to them is not a land of milk and honey anymore. (Sorry story written in Bengali only). Basically the piece describes how sad and demented of a life Bangladeshi Hindus are leading in Northern West Bengal......they want to return to their homes in Bangladesh.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/we-a...angladesh-bangladeshi-hindus-in-india.435369/

 

[Bilal9]

Modi came to power in 2014, what were your views on India before that? Now you can sit here and lie that you didn't hate India at that time, but that would be just that - a lie. Fact of the matter is, in your mind you have decided that "Muslim" Bangladesh can never be friends with "Hindu" India, and nothing can change that view.

You can call us all kinds of names (even b*st*rds), but don't call us communal. We will take that personally. There is no place for communalism in Bangladesh - we don't tolerate it. Supposed 'torture' of Hindus are one-off incidents taking place in remote villages, connected with property or other disputes.

That would be correct if not for the small fact that 10% of your population lives and works in India. They do so because they have no prospects in BD. So after you have stopped your Cinderella-at-the-ball routine, fancying that everyone wants to dance with you, consider the fact that had it not been for India accommodating these people, your country would have collapsed by now.

I know there is no gratitude in International relations, but surely that does not mean you spin stories to comfort yourself.

You bought RSS propaganda 100% or are a 'pracharak' (propagandist) yourself.

The propaganda that Bangladeshis are living in India is almost completely attributed to the fact that a large number of Bengalis from a poorer state like West Bengal have migrated to richer states, thanks to Mamta running that state into the ground. Nothing more, nothing less.

Spinning stories?

What magical world do you live in?

Or tell me what you are smoking - I do want to try some......

China wants to rapidly shift their low-labor-cost low-margin industries (shoes, clothes, plastics, small electrics) to lower labor-cost partner countries such as Bangladesh or Pakistan. Ain't gonna be Vietnam (they are in Korean/Taiwanese camp), Not Indonesia (Japanese/Korean camp again) and certainly not Thailand or Malaysia....

Why won't they court us? It's already happening in Massive scale. Come visit Bangladesh sometime.

Your industrial sector is neither lithe, nor as competitive or as dynamic to dance with us like China. Why in the heck would we dance with the likes of you?

As I said in my initial post, the dadagiri you talk about is nothing compared to other such equations around the world where a small state exists in close proximity and at the total mercy of a much larger state. Had religious chauvinism not blinded you, this obvious fact would not have escaped notice.

Bangladesh does not want to imitate India nor wants to be in the sphere of India.

We have some regard left for you because of common cultural affinity and bonds. Please don't come up with more Dadagiri ideas and make it any worse....

The day when India could dream of controlling Bangladesh was never there to start with - now the prospects of friendship is going to be gone too, Sayonara......Thanks to the clumsy dealings of your leadership over the years.

There is no religious chauvinism in Bangladesh.

Hindus in our country lead in parliament, in the supreme court, in fashion and in public spheres as mega personalities......I don't want to buy the BS that Hindus are 'oppressed' here. All RSS propaganda.

 

[Zabaniyah]

Are you mistaking me for a Sanghi by any chance? I am not one. However, I do dislike ingrates and whiners.

I'm sorry, did I offend you? And what in God's name is a Sanghi? Is it some new religion?

People have rights you know. And I will raise my voice even if it offends you.

But hey, you don't like what you are reading, don't bother participating and remain in your little dreamworld.

Bangladesh does not want to imitate India nor wants to be in the sphere of India.

We have some regard left for you because of common cultural affinity and bonds. Please don't come up with more Dadagiri ideas and make it any worse....

The day when India could dream of controlling Bangladesh was never there to start with - now the prospects of friendship is going to be gone too, Sayonara......Thanks to the clumsy dealings of your leadership over the years.

There is no religious chauvinism in Bangladesh.

Hindus in our country lead in parliament, in the supreme court, in fashion and in public spheres as mega personalities......I don't want to buy the BS that Hindus are 'oppressed' here. All RSS propaganda.

It is interesting that the vandalism of properties belonging to Hindus in Bangladesh do not end in massive casualties. Even more so, India's leader has quite a few skeletons in his closet if we look back at the Gujrat riots for which he, as a highly capable administrator willingly did so. Of-course, I don't have any proof, but anyone with an ounce of psychological instinct would realize that.

Mr. Modi is now all happy along with his citizens like as if it never happened. They are in harmony. Going up against them now is a bad idea in case any fool comes up with any bright ideas.

As far as Hindus in Bangladesh go, I do sense greed and potential for controversy. I know because work with them. I have come to know their ways, their beliefs, their culture and as of late...their politics.

Along with the other odd things they say, there is no other reason for those useless gatherings such as the one mentioned in the OP. If they had 'real' loyalty to Bangladesh, they would have raised their voice against such long ago. Where is the outrage of this corruption? Or is there something more going on there? As of late, it has come to my attention that they carry out several money laundering activities between here and India. Talk of an Indian version of Malaysia Second Home. But why India? Why not USA, Canada, Malaysia, Thailand, etc.? Their loyalty is questionable

They won the Language Movement, they have preserved their culture, they now have more power and money (albeit, via questionable means) in Bangladesh than they have ever dreamed of. What more do they want now? That is the question. Or are they just being greedy? Of-course, not all Bangladeshi Hindus are being like that. But, it is quite a handful of them.

That being said, every citizen regardless of religion or ethnicity have right to security, the rule law and their rights preserved. There are no favors, discrimination or reverse discrimination based on religion. No exceptions. That is one of the hallmarks secularism. Something our Indian friends and even Pakistani ones do not quite understand. They believe what they wish to believe in while being completely disconnected from reality. Let alone empathy.

There is a reason for all these misunderstandings, conflict and the inability to rise together as proper nations. That is where the ASEAN nations succeeded and prospered for generations. One has to respect people's rights and spaces. One can't just control history as he/she sees fit. One has to respect time and space as it is made to be.

 

[Mage]

Not what I have heard from my BD friends in real life. One of them in part of a well known family business in BD and has personally told me multiple times there is now heavy polarisation in BD (since esp the SHW "election"). People (on both sides) can tolerate it to some extent with the economic growth and semblance of stability that SHW has established....but no one really knows what will be enough to spark and incite society beyond that into various levels of turmoil and even bloodshed that could expose fractures that lead to who knows where in the end.

Polarized politically? Correct.

But polarized about Pilkhana tragedy? No.

Not even BNP claim India was behind it. Altho they do criticize Hasina's handling of that situation which is something they are right about. Conspiracy theories are believed by the likes of idune who has irrational hatred of everything related to India and Hindus. Like a Hindu can't be a Bangladeshi or a RAW runs sheesha cafés in Bangladesh where he is a regular customer.

 

[Nilgiri]

As of late, it has come to my attention that they carry out several money laundering activities between here and India. Talk of an Indian version of Malaysia Second Home. But why India? Why not USA, Canada, Malaysia, Thailand, etc.? Their loyalty is questionable

Its good (for us) that you feel that way.

BD Hindus are simply much less ungrateful to India because they bore the brunt of what happened in 1971 (And earlier episodes such as noakhali)...something that inevitably happened because of an idea not concocted in the plains of the Indus but the delta of the Ganges. So they are not blind to the fact as to why they still live and breathe where they are now.

We will have them as the 5th column for a good long time because of it....and there is nothing you can do about it but accept it and work the best you can with it....because any other action simply brings unbearable consequences for BD as a whole. SHW understands this (having also sought refuge and mentorship in India) basic reality....hence why she now has sunk in long term for BD leadership.

Like rest of region you have to be willing to give enough time for long term integration where petty identities evaporate as the direct historical bonds lessen. Forcing anything unnaturally is only going to rekindle the cycle.

 

[Bilal9]

I'm sorry, did I offend you? And what in God's name is a Sanghi? Is it some new religion?

People have rights you know. And I will raise my voice even if it offends you.

But hey, you don't like what you are reading, don't bother participating and remain in your little dreamworld.



It is interesting that the vandalism of properties belonging to Hindus in Bangladesh do not end in massive casualties. Even more so, India's leader has quite a few skeletons in his closet if we look back at the Gujrat riots for which he, as a highly capable administrator willingly did so. Of-course, I don't have any proof, but anyone with an ounce of psychological instinct would realize that.

Mr. Modi is now all happy along with his citizens like as if it never happened. They are in harmony. Going up against them now is a bad idea in case any fool comes up with any bright ideas.

As far as Hindus in Bangladesh go, I do sense greed and potential for controversy. I know because work with them. I have come to know their ways, their beliefs, their culture and as of late...their politics.

Along with the other odd things they say, there is no other reason for those useless gatherings such as the one mentioned in the OP. If they had 'real' loyalty to Bangladesh, they would have raised their voice against such long ago. Where is the outrage of this corruption? Or is there something more going on there? As of late, it has come to my attention that they carry out several money laundering activities between here and India. Talk of an Indian version of Malaysia Second Home. But why India? Why not USA, Canada, Malaysia, Thailand, etc.? Their loyalty is questionable

They won the Language Movement, they have preserved their culture, they now have more power and money (albeit, via questionable means) in Bangladesh than they have ever dreamed of. What more do they want now? That is the question. Or are they just being greedy? Of-course, not all Bangladeshi Hindus are being like that. But, it is quite a handful of them.

That being said, every citizen regardless of religion or ethnicity have right to security, the rule law and their rights preserved. There are no favors, discrimination or reverse discrimination based on religion. No exceptions. That is one of the hallmarks secularism. Something our Indian friends and even Pakistani ones do not quite understand. They believe what they wish to believe in while being completely disconnected from reality. Let alone empathy.

You spoke my mind exactly.

Bangladeshi Hindus ( a majority of whom are patriots) are being influenced and misled by a few bold leaders and their contacts (RSS sympathizers from India) to cause trouble by scheming in Bangladesh. It is true that they will not succeed very much and their ambition is of course limited compared to what they can do in India, but they can try to destabilize Bangladeshi economy.

For this we need to remain vigilant. No one (whether Hindu or Muslim) will have the right to insult another's religion or to disrupt our economy in any manner. We must uphold this at any cost (with force if needed).

 

[Mage]

@Nilgiri another thing I might point out is BD general public aren't really as interest in politics as much as they used to be 20 years ago. In the late 1960's people protested like never before against the Pak govt. Even in the last days of Ershad's regime people protested like hell. But these days you'll see only workers of the opposition party protesting against govt. People over time realized that you either get Hasina or Khaleda or someone as corrupt. Even if you somehow overthrow Hasina, her replacement is not likely to be much of a better option. Not something worth risking your life/livelihood. So you just try to get on with your life. Prime minister doesn't make your life better(unless you are an active member of his/her party/coalition)

Its up to you to improve your life.

 

[Nilgiri]

But polarized about Pilkhana tragedy? No.

Not even BNP claim India was behind it.

Can ask your war veterans like @asad71 and @Md Akmal about it (and they have put their lives on the line for their country liberation which is way more than most here can say).

Or the litany of others from that side that see BNP as "least bad option" (not extreme enough) and BAL as the complete traitorous implant. @Luffy 500 @T-Rex @Al-zakir @Saiful Islam @idune and that munshi fellow

or they suddenly are not your countrymen and their opinion doesn't count? These are just a few I have seen bring it up on this forum that I still see posting around....many of them have left or retired. Even some of the "moderates" have indulged in the india-behind-pilkhana theory at various times.

In fact you can create a poll if you want and ask who was behind pilkhana according to this forum and make the names visible so you can ascertain the polarisation for yourself.

Or you can say this forum representation does not correlate to the one found in BD population....but that is another argument and quite subjective.

 

[Zabaniyah]

Conspiracy theories are believed by the likes of idune who has irrational hatred of everything related to India and Hindus. Like a Hindu can't be a Bangladeshi or a RAW runs sheesha cafés in Bangladesh where he is a regular customer.

I have began to think that the man comes here whenever he forgets to take his meds on time.

There's suspicion of him being a disgruntled Bihari as well.

Its good (for us) that you feel that way.

BD Hindus are simply much less ungrateful to India because they bore the brunt of what happened in 1971 (And earlier episodes such as noakhali)...something that inevitably happened because of an idea not concocted in the plains of the Indus but the delta of the Ganges. So they are not blind to the fact as to why they still live and breathe where they are now.

We will have them as the 5th column for a good long time because of it....and there is nothing you can do about it but accept it and work the best you can with it....because any other action simply brings unbearable consequences for BD as a whole. SHW understands this (having also sought refuge and mentorship in India) basic reality....hence why she now has sunk in long term for BD leadership.

Like rest of region you have to be willing to give enough time for long term integration where petty identities evaporate as the direct historical bonds lessen. Forcing anything unnaturally is only going to rekindle the cycle.

I don't force anything unnaturally. You are right, it is important to give it time.

The Hindus as of late had been acting a bit weird. Asking me strange questions. I've been around Thais, Malays, Chinese and even Indians living abroad who never even once tried to enforce their culture on me.

You spoke my mind exactly.

Bangladeshi Hindus ( a majority of whom are patriots) are being influenced and misled by a few bold leaders and their contacts (RSS sympathizers from India) to cause trouble by scheming in Bangladesh. It is true that they will not succeed very much and their ambition is of course limited compared to what they can do in India, but they can try to destabilize Bangladeshi economy.

For this we need to remain vigilant. No one (whether Hindu or Muslim) will have the right to insult another's religion or to disrupt our economy in any manner. We must uphold this at any cost (with force if needed).

It is a bit more complicated than that. Some weird stuff going on here!

 

[Nilgiri]

@Nilgiri another thing I might point out is BD general public aren't really as interest in politics as much as they used to be 20 years ago. In the late 1960's people protested like never before against the Pak govt. Even in the last days of Ershad's regime people protested like hell. But these days you'll see only workers of the opposition party protesting against govt. People over time realized that you either get Hasina or Khaleda or someone as corrupt. Even if you somehow overthrow Hasina, her replacement is not likely to be much of a better option. Not something worth risking your life/livelihood. So you just try to get on with your life. Prime minister doesn't make your life better(unless you are an active member of his/her party/coalition)

Its up to you to improve your life.

I'm largely talking about the elite and neo-elite (given they have the highest impact domestically, regionally and internationally for any nation) rather than the "daily bread" masses who's basics of survivability are largely met (and when they weren't i.e the basic right to exist, language, culture etc is when their support was rallied en masse).

I don't force anything unnaturally. You are right, it is important to give it time.

The Hindus as of late had been acting a bit weird. Asking me strange questions. I've been around Thais, Malays, Chinese and even Indians living abroad who never even once tried to enforce their culture on me.

Human psychology (esp long term) is a very complicated matter my friend. BD hindus are nowhere at the level of say many Sri Lankan tamils here in Canada with regard to their home country (and i have interacted with a number of them, some of them are viciously unfriendly to me now as a result).

It is the distance (in time) to the trauma(s) and severity of those traumas (directly or from the collective) etc etc that largely determine what the condition of a community is....along with the options they perceive as recourse for refuge/sanctuary/hedging (as say BD Hindus see with India - again the psychological aspect often dominates here).

Why do you think the jews fought absolutely tooth and nail in both the land they were officially given in 1948 and also the corridors of power in two superpowers....and several major ones?

As for what has been happening lately in your case, can you explain how they tried to enforce their culture on you? (If you don't mind). I am just interested....but I can ask how does one go about gauging the various undulations during the progress of time...esp to judge them as a definite counter swing from what one would expect long term?

 

[Mage]

Can ask your war veterans like @asad71 and @Md Akmal about it (and they have put their lives on the line for their country liberation which is way more than most here can say).

Or the litany of others from that side that see BNP as "least bad option" (not extreme enough) and BAL as the complete traitorous implant. @Luffy 500 @T-Rex @Al-zakir @Saiful Islam @idune and that munshi fellow

or they suddenly are not your countrymen and their opinion doesn't count? These are just a few I have seen bring it up on this forum that I still see posting around....many of them have left or retired. Even some of the "moderates" have indulged in the india-behind-pilkhana theory at various times.

In fact you can create a poll if you want and ask who was behind pilkhana according to this forum and make the names visible so you can ascertain the polarisation for yourself.

Or you can say this forum representation does not correlate to the one found in BD population....but that is another argument and quite subjective.

Last 25 years BAL + BNP = 270 seats in the parliament. There are 300 seats. The people you mentioned many of them would love to see a Jamaat+IS+JMB coalition coming to power in Bangladesh.


BD politics is 90% about AL or BNP. Check the number of seats they win in elections. How many seats Jamaat got in their best election performance? I don't think it will be more than 20.


What people in pdf think hardly matters. Jamaatis are majority here. While in actuality they are political non existent now. Even in their best days they didn't any significant amount of seats. They had to depend on AL or BNP to come to power. And they actually was in a coalition with AL against BNP before. Hilarious when you think about it.

 

[Nilgiri]

Last 25 years BAL + BNP = 270 seats in the parliament. There are 300 seats. The people you mentioned many of them would love to see a Jamaat+IS+JMB coalition coming to power in Bangladesh.


BD politics is 90% about AL or BNP. Check the number of seats they win in elections. How many seats Jamaat got in their best election performance? I don't think it will be more than 20.


What people in pdf think hardly matters. Jamaatis are majority here. While in actuality they are political non existent now. Even in their best days they didn't any significant amount of seats. They had to depend on AL or BNP to come to power. And they actually was in a coalition with AL against BNP before. Hilarious when you think about it.

I have said exactly what you are saying when I first got to this forum....but the argument was that SHW took power illegally, rigged an election and follow up elections too (of all scales).

I agree that this forum is traditionally skewed to their side...but I have seen even "moderates" indulge in some of the claims (don't know if out of spite or genuine belief etc - hence a poll in this forum would ascertain that by mentally excluding those which you see as outliers in the actual BD ground matrix that are over-represented here in a forum as you please).

I for one have no way to determine for myself the accuracy of any side's claims per se....than from what I see here and interact with real BD people I know....and come to some final analysis that its some mix of all of that on the ground. From that neither do I accept the assertion that a 10% minority (BAL) is overlording (through Indian support) over the vast 90% of the rest....but neither do I accept the reverse that the "space" in govt control is purely indicative of the on the ground sentiment (in this case like 90%+ for BAL or whatever it is because of the BNP boycott). Gauging from what my RL friends and associates say...its about 40/20/40 split (with 20 being the swing vote)....how much of the 40% on the overall BNP side and 20% swing voters have migrated to being in a heavier state or lesser state of frustration (and thus polarisation) w.r.t greater stability + continued economic growth is anyone's guess. There has been no detailed and transparent way of gauging that (SHW definitely does not allow it - given she would have to put her relatively assured political career and that of her party on the line for next to nothing in return).

Thus I just say the polarisation is "high" (and its the degree to which I leave as uncertain given high is just a subjective word)...with the caveat that if BD reaches a state of open enmity with India....it is confirmed that the degree is high. But that I accept to be unlikely....hence subsequent responses concerning that are only to those that are inclined to believe this as default truth.

But the general word of "polarisation" and "high" is not out of place here I feel. One can say much of the developed west is also facing polarisation on all kinds of issues....as we see in US, France, UK etc.....where there are at least much more transparent markers allowed in gauging them.....so what would make developing countries any different for the particular set of issues that concern them?