One has to admire the strong will and ability of Hamas

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

What Israeli propaganda have I mentioned? Which part of my arguement is propaganda? Has Hamas caused any military defeats to Israel? When was the last time they even killed an IDF soldier?

The comparison with Pakistan is mute. Pakistan may not have liberated all of Kashmir yet, but Pakistan is not an equivalent to Hamas. Pakistan is a nuclear power, a state which is backing the Kashmiri's. Nobody is backing Hamas. My whole point is that without that backing Hamas is unable to operate effectively from a military perspective. Even the Eygptians are closing down their tunnels.

Maybe you disagreed with the bit where I said PLO and Hamas are only interested in self preservation? If that is the case then explain to me why they had a civil war in 2005? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatah–Hamas_conflict#Overview Are these the actions of people concerned with national interest? Were Mujib and Bhutto concerned with power or national interest?

I have not said that the Palestinians should recognise Israel - i just said continued military attacks which don't even cause casulties but result in hundreds of deaths from reprisal attacks are stupid.

Hamas is doing holy work, resistance to Israel must not end, even if they are wiped out. That is because the believer must uphold the principles of Islam and be ready to pay the ultimate price.

A life of servitude does not suit the Palestinians of Gaza, and that same servitude did not help the Palestinians of the West Bank and the Beduoins from Israeli designs.

The Israeli war machine will keep marching forward, we Pakistanis need to give any and all support to the Arabs, just as our Quaid wanted.

Eventually we will also be targetted directly.

Pakistan is alive only by the fazl of Parvardigar and nothing else. Otherwise what else separates us from the Palestinians?

Let's be fair, we are also entertaining traitors, thieves, liars in our midst and refusing to carry out the order of the Divine.

 

[313ghazi]

Hamas is doing holy work, resistance to Israel must not end, even if they are wiped out. That is because the believer must uphold the principles of Islam and be ready to pay the ultimate price.

A life of servitude does not suit the Palestinians of Gaza, and that same servitude did not help the Palestinians of the West Bank and the Beduoins from Israeli designs.

The Israeli war machine will keep marching forward, we Pakistanis need to give any and all support to the Arabs, just as our Quaid wanted.

Eventually we will also be targetted directly.

Pakistan is alive only by the fazl of Parvardigar and nothing else. Otherwise what else separates us from the Palestinians?

Let's be fair, we are also entertaining traitors, thieves, liars in our midst and refusing to carry out the order of the Divine.

Is ineffective military resistance the only form of resistance?

Should Pakistan attack India tomorrow knowing full well we're unlikely to liberate Kashmir and wholescale war would probably end in a stalemate after destroying our economy, military strength and infrastructure?

We do not advocate that, so why encourage foolish approaches for others?

The most effective form of resistance the Palestinians have is the BDS movement. Israel squealed around the world to try and get it stopped. If Hamas had the impact and effectiveness of Hizbollah, it'd make sense to continue attacks; Hizbollah actually causes damage to Israel, but even their leader later stated he regreted the cost of their war to the people of Lebanon.

My opinion is about the tactics of resistance.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Is ineffective military resistance the only form of resistance?

Should Pakistan attack India tomorrow knowing full well we're unlikely to liberate Kashmir and wholescale war would probably end in a stalemate after destroying our economy, military strength and infrastructure?

We do not advocate that, so why encourage foolish approaches for others?

The most effective form of resistance the Palestinians have is the BDS movement. Israel squealed around the world to try and get it stopped. If Hamas had the impact and effectiveness of Hizbollah, it'd make sense to continue attacks; Hizbollah actually causes damage to Israel, but even their leader later stated he regreted the cost of their war to the people of Lebanon.

My opinion is about the tactics of resistance.

As far as I know, Hamas only attacks Israel in revenge for Israeli offensive attacks. They maintain military deterence, which is probably the only reason Gaza is independent today.

BDS is more for the supporters of Palestinians, and not the Palestinians themselves.

I just want you two guys to know that I like you guys @313ghazi @masterchief_mirza and consider you as my brothers.

We just have to be careful about this issue, because there are genuine Palestinian lives on the line here. The Israel war machine is unending, no matter what measures the Palestinians take to placate it.

Please try to understand brother @Falcon29 and his feelings in this regards. For him, it is an existental struggle, similar to how our Kashmiri brothers view theirs.

I had talked with @Falcon29 brother about this issue, as he is a good friend.

in sha Allah, we can discuss this issue calmly.

 

[Cliftonite]

Even If Iran did, you wouldnt be able to see it, since you're blind and biased about what IRan has done for Palestinians.

1. Using that word like " Irani Mullahs" that shows your bias, dislike and lack of understanding of the Iranian system reflects more on you, not Iran. Iranians like their country the way it is so whats your issue? you want them to hate Iran the way you hate Iran?
2. That is your opinion and it sounds like an over simplification...no govt or system is that simple.


Well your country uses the Kashmir cause to keep your country in their strongholds and extend their so called militias in Kashmir region....so whats the difference? Just say you dont agree with Iranian govt's ideology and move on, you dont have to attack it just because its different from how you would do things.



I believe you meant to say : ....fixed it for you.


Isolated? From who? Iraq? no. From Syria? No, From yemen? no, From Afghanistan? no, from Gaza? No. From Pakistan? NO. Even Morroco allowed IRGC banned flight fly through its airspace on its way to Venezuala recently..i think you're just projecting.

ARE YOU SURE?? well how come Gaza is now the largest continuous piece of Palestinian territory?? Its even larger than the west bank, so all the west bank got for "peaceful resistance" against ISrael was more annexation and microbalkanization of their territory. Also, Hamas has been able to deter Israel, because TILL THIS DAY, ISrael hasnt done a land invasion there...they cant...thats an achievement..the last time they tried their special forces got disoriented and left all theri equipment in Gaza..this is such an ill informed and inaccurate opinion. Hamas has stood for the little dignity Palestinians deserve that you Muslims sold cheaply to Israel already.

They are ready, but once again, Muslims like Egypt collude with Jewish Israel(Just like Muslim Turkey colludes with Christian NATO and Jewish Israel against other regional Muslims) to strangle Gaza but you only see the weak, abused Palestinians as the cause of their situation? open your eyes and clear your bias..it is a complex problem that involves a much stronger power on one side that weirdly enough many Muslims regionally think is ok to be treated like stray dogs not worthy of any quality and dignity of their lives in that apartheid jail called Gaza and West bank.

Well neither is Gaza! Gaza rejuvenated, and is standing up- successful resistance which the only ARabs who've done that - Hamas and Hezbollah were trained and taught by Iran. Which forces have Pakistani Muslims trained and taught SUCCESSFULLY against any Christian or Jewish force in recent times abusing Muslims? NONE. America has killed 1 M Muslims in Afghanistan, the Syria, Iraq, Yemen etc and you've done NOTHING against it, but you have the strength to complain about abused and rejected Palestinians for fighting their abuser whose just trying to control them on their land and steal more of it? you have your priorities wrong bra. Israel fought well? thats not what Hezbollah saw in 2006 and thats not what Syrians saw in the civil war...ground units collapsed in Lebanon and had to withdraw in 2006 and in Syria ISrael was so afraid, they hired Extremist Sunni groups like ISIS and other ones(No SHia groups were used) to protect their border with Syria so what do you really mean by "FOUGHT WELL"???

This has nothing to do with the issue- the issue is not Islam vs Jews, the issue is far deal vs Apartheid deal. which u think is better and needed?

Firstly don't keep pointing back to Pakistan thinking you'll stoke my patriotism. I know Pakistan is wrong too. I'm not defending it.

Kashmir is a disputed territory that Pakistan claims. Like Azerbaijan and Nagorno Karabakh. Or Turkey and Turkish Cyprus.

Iran meddles in other countries shamelssly. It has destroyed a beautiful country like Lebanon (Paris of the Middle East) for good. Yemen, Gaza and Syria as well. What are the Houthis doing for Yemen? Only keeping it perpetually entangled in warfare so your Mullahs can get their bread and butter? What good does firing rockets do for Gazans? It only makes it worse when Israel strikes back and kills thousands with its better equipment.

You were supporting a murderous psychopath like Bashar ul Assad in Syria. You have the nerve to say you are "supporting Muslims"? If Iran really wants to help Muslims, it should start with itself where the economic situation is worsening everyday.

 

[Homo Sapiens]

To be fair to Hamas, it was a brave and courageous fight. However, it made no difference in the end. It's time to give it up and rebuild Gaza. Israel isn't going anywhere - folks need to accept that they also fought well. Muslims and Jewish peoples actually have more in common than not. Better to negotiate and start a new peaceful chapter in relations.

As if Israelis are waiting for the Palestinians to give them a viable, independent state. No amount of peace posturing from Palestinian is going to make Israel from withdrawing from West Bank, forget about East Jerusalem. What Israeli want to give palestinians is self governing cantons, fragmented by hundreds of Jewish settlement and checkpost, under complete Israeli military control. It is worse than Bantustans Apartheid South Africa given to the Black populace there.

Many of you peacenik are forgetting that, current Israeli govt. is extreme right wing, the main opposition is even more extreme. They don't even recognize Palestinian have any right to live in historic Palestine. They advocate deportation of Palestinians to other Arab countries. The only Israeli political party who were genuinely wanted a two state solution was Labor Party under Itzhak Rabin. who was killed by an extremist Jew in 1995. Today, Labor party a miniscule party in Israeli politics. The real problem is complete power imbalance between Israeli and Palestinians. American blind support for Isreal and Arabs abandoning the Palestinian cause is making the matter even worse.

 

[Cliftonite]

As if Israelis are waiting for the Palestinians to give them a viable, independent state. No amount of peace posturing from Palestinian is going to make Israel from withdrawing from West Bank, forget about East Jerusalem. What Israeli want to give palestinians is self governing cantons, fragmented by hundreds of Jewish settlement and checkpost, under complete Israeli military control. It is worse than Bantustans Apartheid South Africa given to the Black populace there.

Many of you peacenik are forgetting that, current Israeli govt. is extreme right wing, the main opposition is even more extreme. They don't even recognize Palestinian have any right to live in historic Palestine. They advocate deportation of Palestinians to other Arab countries. The only Israeli political party who were genuinely wanted a two state solution was Labor Party under Itzhak Rabin. who was killed by an extremist Jew in 1995. Today, Labor party a miniscule party in Israeli politics. The real problem is complete power imbalance between Israeli and Palestinians. American blind support for Isreal and Arabs abandoning the Palestinian cause is making the matter even worse.

Didn't Israel unilaterally withdraw from Gaza in 2005? That was Palestinians chance to show responsibility and get an independent functioning state for themselves. Instead they started lobbying rockets at Tel Aviv.

Israel is not accomodating like the West. It's extremely aggressive when it comes to its own self preservation (I guess history has taught them that). It will keep occupying the West Bank even for 200 years if Palestinians don't show flexibility. It doesn't have much to lose.

Israel's argument is that the West Bank is on higher ground and too close to Israeli cities for them to consider a unilateral withdrawal and risk rocket attacks like Gaza. Palestinians can consider peace or keep this unnecessary war of attrition (and ego) in which they suffer ten times more than Israel.

 

[jamahir]

Hamas and Hezbollah were trained and taught by Iran.

But why isn't Hamas following Hezbollah's lead and assisting the Syrian security forces in the war ?

Musharraf tried to do it but had to back off as the response inside Pakistan was so strong.

A simple solution to the issue is the Palestinian Territories and Israel rejoining into a single state. End of the decades long troubles.

Many Muslims have to rid themselves of emotion-led ideas about this and think practically because Israel cannot be wished away.

You were supporting a murderous psychopath like Bashar ul Assad in Syria.

Assad is not a psychopath but a victim of NATO's imperialist ambitions. Why do you think NATO wants the MB and Al Qaeda membered Syrian National Council to rule a sectarianly divided Syria if they manage to remove Assad ?

 

[Homo Sapiens]

Didn't Israel unilaterally withdraw from Gaza in 2005? That was Palestinians chance to show responsibility and get an independent functioning state for themselves. Instead they started lobbying rockets at Tel Aviv.

Israel is not accomodating like the West. It's extremely aggressive when it comes to its own self preservation (I guess history has taught them that). It will keep occupying the West Bank even for 200 years if Palestinians don't show flexibility. It doesn't have much to lose.

Israel's argument is that the West Bank is on higher ground and too close to Israeli cities for them to consider a unilateral withdrawal and risk rocket attacks like Gaza. Palestinians can consider peace or keep this unnecessary war of attrition (and ego) in which they suffer ten times more than Israel.

Why Palestinians should be content with Gaza which is like 5% of proposed Palestinian state based on 1967 border? West Bank is 95% of proposed Palestinian state. Palestinian moderates like PLO already relinquished the claim of 77% of historic Palestine which is now known as Israel. Entire West Bank and Gaza is only 23% percent of historic Palestine in which Palestinians are trying to establish a state. Gaza is nothing but a refugee ghetto with one of highest population density in the world. It is the Palestinian version of Warsaw ghetto Nazis built for the Jews during ww2.

It is the appeasement and inaction of the global community which made Israel arrogant and inflexible. Pressuring Palestinian to capitulate farther is both immoral and ineffective.

Palestinian should not abandon resistance. It will only make Israel more greedy and inflexible.

A simple solution to the issue is the Palestinian Territories and Israel rejoining into a single state. End of the decades long troubles.

Palestinians are ready for it. But Israelis will not allow it as it will end Jewish demographic majority in Israel and the end of 'Jewish state'.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

But why isn't Hamas following Hezbollah's lead and assisting the Syrian security forces in the war ?



A simple solution to the issue is the Palestinian Territories and Israel rejoining into a single state. End of the decades long troubles.

Many Muslims have to rid themselves of emotion-led ideas about this and think practically because Israel cannot be wished away.



Assad is not a psychopath but a victim of NATO's imperialist ambitions. Why do you think NATO wants the MB and Al Qaeda membered Syrian National Council to rule a sectarianly divided Syria if they manage to remove Assad ?

Oh dear....

Gaddafi is dead, just accept it. Communism is long gone.

 

[jamahir]

Oh dear....

Gaddafi is dead, just accept it. Communism is long gone.

I didn't mention either thing in my post.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

As if Israelis are waiting for the Palestinians to give them a viable, independent state. No amount of peace posturing from Palestinian is going to make Israel from withdrawing from West Bank, forget about East Jerusalem. What Israeli want to give palestinians is self governing cantons, fragmented by hundreds of Jewish settlement and checkpost, under complete Israeli military control. It is worse than Bantustans Apartheid South Africa given to the Black populace there.

View attachment 685680


Many of you peacenik are forgetting that, current Israeli govt. is extreme right wing, the main opposition is even more extreme. They don't even recognize Palestinian have any right to live in historic Palestine. They advocate deportation of Palestinians to other Arab countries. The only Israeli political party who were genuinely wanted a two state solution was Labor Party under Itzhak Rabin. who was killed by an extremist Jew in 1995. Today, Labor party a miniscule party in Israeli politics. The real problem is complete power imbalance between Israeli and Palestinians. American blind support for Isreal and Arabs abandoning the Palestinian cause is making the matter even worse.

Great post brother.

 

[925boy]

But why isn't Hamas following Hezbollah's lead and assisting the Syrian security forces in the war ?

You have to look at the purposes for their creation to answer that- Hezbollah was created as a Lebanese Shia defense force to protect ARabs against Israel, while Hamas is a Sunni nationalist defense force against Israel in Palestine, so they have different purposes, contexts and strategies against Israel. Hezbollah is an Iranian partner/surrogate, while Hamas is an Iranian ally? They basically dont have the same ideology and goals. Hezbollah was created by Iran, while Hamas wasnt.

 

[BlueWhales]

It's called resistance

I think he was right by saying Stupidity..

In 1967,73, Israel f**ked whole Arabs,

Israeli Army is well trained, with good weapon, with good secret agencies like Mossad, Shin Bet and etc,
While Hammas, Hizbullah cannot defeat Israeli Army, Palestine map is shrinking slowly slowly but day by day.
I think Israel is not seems in hurry, and it do not want to be called Villain (outside of Muslim World),
I think it can take whole Palestine in few days as it is capable, but they do not want... Better to check Palestine Maps in Google

The Israeli war machine will keep marching forward, we Pakistanis need to give any and all support to the Arabs, just as our Quaid wanted.

Pakistan is alive only by the fazl of Parvardigar and nothing else. Otherwise what else separates us from the Palestinians?

Cool Down Baby !
Stop living in Mullah's Fantasy World,
Arab Badus are not your friends, they even do not considers you and other non-Arabs true Muslims, but only slave...
Why are you wasting your energy on these posts ?
Ask any Arab countries politicians/kings, will they fight for your country ? Saudi ? Egypt ? UAE ? Jordan ?

Where is East Pakistan ? Where is Hyderabad Dakan ?
Pakistan is alive fazl of Parvardigar, but why Palestine cannot alive without you (Pakistan) ?
Will Palestine fight with India for You, if it got independence ? Why you people drag religion everywhere ?

 

[Itachi]

Is ineffective military resistance the only form of resistance?

Should Pakistan attack India tomorrow knowing full well we're unlikely to liberate Kashmir and wholescale war would probably end in a stalemate after destroying our economy, military strength and infrastructure?

We do not advocate that, so why encourage foolish approaches for others?

The most effective form of resistance the Palestinians have is the BDS movement. Israel squealed around the world to try and get it stopped. If Hamas had the impact and effectiveness of Hizbollah, it'd make sense to continue attacks; Hizbollah actually causes damage to Israel, but even their leader later stated he regreted the cost of their war to the people of Lebanon.

My opinion is about the tactics of resistance.

"Ineffective resistance" (it's debatable but lets go with your logic) is better than no resistance....which is what the Arabs of today are doing.....forget no resistance....they're opening up the doors to their countries and welcoming Israel like family.

In all of this, Hamas's very existence is a accomplishment for which they're being praised and are renowned for. And Hamas is just one group of many resisting Israel. The future is still unseen and unwritten, who knows what they and others can accomplish in the next 10, 20 or 30 years.

As long as they remain a thorn in Israel's sight, it's good enough.

 

[truthfollower]

Gaza is independent today.

better join Israel