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On this day, Two IAF Migs are shot down

Guess who first approached America and asked Bill Clinton to intervene.


Indian Army suffering badly in Kargil:
29 June 1999 WASHINGTON D.C.: A report in Washington says that India has suffered so badly in Kargil at the hands of Pakistani military forces that the only way out for it is to attack Pakistan on a large scale. The spectacle of hundreds of bodybags of Indian soldiers coming down from the mountains in Kargil was creating an intense public pressure on the Government in New Delhi to react. “New Delhi will be compelled to attack Pakistan if Islamabad failed to withdraw its forces from the Indian side of the Line of Co
ntrol. This was the sum and substance of an alarming letter that Indian Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee wrote to President Clinton,” The Washington Post reports. The contents of this letter were conveyed to Clinton in Geneva. According to the newspaper, as he was delivering a speech to the International Labour Organisation, his National Security Adviser Sandy Berger “slipped out to receive the alarming letter.” The letter stoked rising American fears that India, having lost 100s of troops, would “storm across” the ceasefire line that divides Kashmir or open a second front elsewhere on its border with Pakistan. Such an escalation could effectively scuttle the Administration’s dwindling hopes of a “constructive new relationship” between South Asia’s two new nuclear powers. The Vajpayee letter seems to have had an immediate impact as the Administration’s foreign policy engine was thrown into high hear.

Ok I agree that

1) India Lost Kargil War, Pakistan won ..... Congratulations by the way.......
2) Pakistan Still hold Kargil heights
3) Pakistan beaten IAF hands down and, IAF could not do anything in Kargil, By the way IAF lost couple of its assets...
4) India ran to US for intervention and begged to stop the war.... Clinton helped india....
5) Pakistan hardly lost any soldiers, and India lost several soldiers.
6) Pakistan won the diplomatic battle, and had a high ground at the end of the battle
7) India lost in all the fronts.

Can we move on??????
 
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It required 9 troops to evict 1 enemy who has the advantage of height.
Why my friend, did one of them fight while rest of them do the cheerleading for him. 9:1 ratio mean, Indian were taking 9:1 ratio casualties and it was even confirmed by Pak Army offices right after Kargil.
 
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Ok I agree that

1) India Lost Kargil War, Pakistan won ..... Congratulations by the way.......
2) Pakistan Still hold Kargil heights
3) Pakistan beaten IAF hands down and, IAF could not do anything in Kargil, By the way IAF lost couple of its assets...
4) India ran to US for intervention and begged to stop the war.... Clinton helped india....
5) Pakistan hardly lost any soldiers, and India lost several soldiers.
6) Pakistan won the diplomatic battle, and had a high ground at the end of the battle
7) India lost in all the fronts.

Can we move on??????
Please advise the Indian members who are condemned to derail every thread and turn it into a stick measuring contest.
 
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Ok I agree that

1) India Lost Kargil War, Pakistan won ..... Congratulations by the way.......
2) Pakistan Still hold Kargil heights
3) Pakistan beaten IAF hands down and, IAF could not do anything in Kargil, By the way IAF lost couple of its assets...
4) India ran to US for intervention and begged to stop the war.... Clinton helped india....
5) Pakistan hardly lost any soldiers, and India lost several soldiers.
6) Pakistan won the diplomatic battle, and had a high ground at the end of the battle
7) India lost in all the fronts.

Can we move on??????
No we lost soldiers and over all it was a bad adventure but it's not Indian victory specially because of those two highest peaks which we have in our control
 
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No we lost soldiers and over all it was a bad adventure but it's not Indian victory specially because of those two highest peaks which we have in our control


I am not sure about the vicotry part..... But i do wish many more such victories in the future.....
 
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Please advise the Indian members who are condemned to derail every thread and turn it into a stick measuring contest.

While agree that some indian members derail the thread and turn into a stick measuring contest..... But being an Elite member, the least expected from us (including me) is to stop the contest rather than adding fire to it........
 
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There is a cease fire in place since 2003 in any case i've never heard Pak was able to disrupt NH by arty fire.
You said it, there is a ceasefire. Why would Pakistan open up big guns without any reason.

National Security Adviser Sandy Berger
Zionist advisor of an idiot fornicator President. Spineless Nawaz went to DC on a single phone call.
 
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Zionist advisor of an idiot fornicator President. Spineless Nawaz went to DC on a single phone call.

Dude it's no secret and a matter of pride for us that India despite being helped by both US (Satellite surveillance) and Israel, didn't manage to gain an inch, as General Musharaff said, ''we had the Indians by the throat''....however the war we won militarily was lost by the spineless NS.
 
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@Windjammer

AFTER this initial loss ; IAF used Chaffs and flares and You could not bring down any more plane

A total of 100 Stingers were fired by Pakistani troops during the entire conflict

Only the First two were successful

@Windjammer

The Mig 27 was Lost because of ENGINE failure

Your stingers took out Mig 21 and a Mi 17 helicopter
Well wreckage was in Pakistan so how it was determined that it was engine failure due to technical issues that crashed the jet?
Though you have a valid point that Anza kills against fired ones was not good enough. what needs that Anza must have advance IIR sensors and CCM against IR CMs in order to be a relevant in any near future conflict if it happens
 
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Why would Pakistan open up big guns without any reason.
That you should ask from Musharaf who initiated the war to gain Siachen but after loosing 100s of men, gained nothing.


According to Lt Gen Mehmud Ahmad then commander 10 corps -

"Come October we shall walk up to Siachen to mop up the bodies of dead Indian soldiers left hungry out in cold"

Adding to that "i have stinger on every peak"
 
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Dude it's no secret and a matter of pride for us that India despite being helped by both US (Satellite surveillance) and Israel, didn't manage to gain an inch, as General Musharaff said, ''we had the Indians by the throat''....however the war we won militarily was lost by the spineless NS.
This is what a soldier believe but unfortunately its not true. Remember the words of some ex serviceman. "After kargil either there will be a court martial or martial law." And a Gen. Mush was fully backed by PA imposed Martial Law and history books were once again get rigged!
 
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Just to move on Topic was about IAF migs being shot down thru Stingers .I would like to ask what type of skill set one require to do this ,also what was the success rate for stingers ? (My Appologies as i have also mentioned related to KArgil war being failure or success) but topic remains quite valid since Mig 21/Mig27 are still a large assets in IAF currently so we also have large number of stingers left it will be a real challenge between the forces
 
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After the shooting down of two jets IAF never dared to cross the LOC again till the conflict over. Even Gen Musharaf crosses the border 11 KM inside Indian claimed territory and spend a night with the troops. We have created a buffer zone inside your claimed area so technically you never cross our side but only dare one time to bomb our buffer zone.
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Few month later PAF Atlantique was shot down over Rann of Kutch. How can you forget that? Do you even know officialy there is sieze fire but armies fought till winters arrived.

Just to move on Topic was about IAF migs being shot down thru Stingers .I would like to ask what type of skill set one require to do this ,also what was the success rate for stingers ? (My Appologies as i have also mentioned related to KArgil war being failure or success) but topic remains quite valid since Mig 21/Mig27 are still a large assets in IAF currently so we also have large number of stingers left it will be a real challenge between the forces

The stingers were fired during peace time when IAF was taking routine sortie. If IAF was literally on some assault sortie then they would have known how to fly to avoid the enemy radar for a surprize attack.
 
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