On this day, Two IAF Migs are shot down

[Zarvan]

After the shooting down of two jets IAF never dared to cross the LOC again till the conflict over. Even Gen Musharaf crosses the border 11 KM inside Indian claimed territory and spend a night with the troops. We have created a buffer zone inside your claimed area so technically you never cross our side but only dare one time to bomb our buffer zone.


Not agreed indeed very well planed but Mr. N.S finds his legs become jelly under US pressure and rest you know.

It was a disaster neither entire Army Knew about it nor does Air Force. Which resulted in heavy losses on our side

 

[Maj.Osmani]

It was a disaster neither entire Army Knew about it nor does Air Force. Which resulted in heavy losses on our side

Who told you those heavy losses on our side N.S or few retires Political minded Generals who were angry by not getting any favors from Gen. Musharaf. Ask any serving or retired person in this forum to get the real picture. US mounted pressure on N.S and refuse to cooperate with military. He was very well aware of the entire situation before the operation along with all the Chiefs of armed forces.

 

[Genghis khan1]

@Windjammer

After IAF brought in Mig 29 and Mirage 2000 ; PAF was just a spectator
watching the proceedings

Because Pakistan was not officially involved, Remember these just mujahideen as per Pakistan narrative.

It was a disaster neither entire Army Knew about it nor does Air Force. Which resulted in heavy losses on our side

They don't have too, limited operations involves certain command. Remember OBL operation, other than Top few, many in CIA and whole military still don't know anything about the operation.

“The first was a draft statement the President would issue if (Mr) Sharif agreed to pull back his forces to the LoC, the second a statement which would be used if (Mr) Sharif refused. The latter would make clear that the blame for the crisis in South Asia lay solely with Pakistan.”

Clinton was an idiot and his administration was pretty anti-Pakistan. Even before Kargil, during his S.Asia visit, he spend 5 days in Indian and bearly 5 hrs in Pakistan. Nawaz Sharif was stupid to even think about asking Clinton any favor. Clinton played a diplomatic bluff on him and idiot fall for it.

India lost 2 Migs - Fact

India recaptured the occupied peaks - Fact

India Captured several Stingers including rare Anzas - fact

Pak didn't accepted the bodies of uniformed soldiers - fact

IAF successfully airstike Kargil peaks - fact

India had more POW than a single IAF pilot - fact

Pakistan crossed LOC and took over Indian positions. -Fact

Few NLI troops sucked in 200,000 IA soldiers, IAF and IA main artillery regiments from Punjab, leaving it less guarded - Fact

India lost more men, Jets and equipment- Fact

US pressure, Nawaz gave up, NLI withdrew but not all the way- Fact

Top Hill Point 5353 still under Pak control and can easily light up Indian posts and Drass Hwy. - Fact

Overall India lost part of territory and strategic highest Hill -Fact.

Now tell me India won again...

 

[Moon]

shameless cowardly action.

Look who's talking.
And don't talk about soldiers with this tone, if you can't say it in real life, don't say it at all.

So, your only achievement

There are plenty more, if you take your head out from where the sun don't shine.

1. Instead of trolling on threads, learn from them

 

[Thorough Pro]

MiG 27 went down in Pakistani territory, who did the investigation for you to reach the conclusion that it went down due to gun gas ingestion?

@Windjammer


https://in.rbth.com/articles/2013/01/16/migs_over_kargil_how_the_fulcrum_buzzed_the_falcons_21659



Mig 27 was lost due to gun Gas ingestion ie Engine flame out

http://kaiser-aeronaut.blogspot.in/2009/01/kargil-conflict-and-pakistan-air-force.html

An excerpt

while a MiG-27 went down due to engine trouble caused by gun gas ingestion during high altitude strafing. (Incidentally, the pilot of the MiG-27 Flt Lt Nachiketa, who ejected and was apprehended, had a tête-à-tête with this author during an interesting ‘interrogation’ session.)

@Windjammer

If you want to discuss Kargil war ; Do it in its ENTIRETY

Not just the parts which are convenient to you

What about the Atlantique Incident

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantique_incident

 

[Stephen Cohen]

MiG 27 went down in Pakistani territory, who did the investigation for you to reach the conclusion that it went down due to gun gas ingestion?

Kaiser Tufail of PAF

 

[Samrat420]

Look who's talking.
And don't talk about soldiers with this tone, if you can't say it in real life, don't say it at all.

Soldiers? Oh No No No.. Don't put words in my mouth.. I never disrespected any soldiers.. The soldiers on the battlefield fought for their motherland, killed and died for her, whether Indian soldiers or Pakistanis. And they command my unwavering respect. Its your generals and your policy makers that did the cowardly action of occupying vacant posts and starting a war, even when your PM was hugging Mr Vajpaiyee at the Minar-e-Pakistan. “Backstabbing" is the sweetest word that can be used for what Gen. Musharraf and his gang of four did.

There are plenty more, if you take your head out from where the sun don't shine.

1. Instead of trolling on threads, learn from them

You shot down a Mig-21 jet and a Mi-17 chopper during PEACETIME, without a declaration of war, and you're masquerading it as an achievement here. That's what this whole thread has been created upon. Is that not true??

BTW, please refrain from ad-hominen attacks. I did not talk about your posterior end, and I expect you to not show an interest in mine..

And, instead of cherry-picking two phrases from my whole post, why don't you, for once, try answering it in entirety. Thank you.

 

[Jamwal's]

Pakistan crossed LOC and took over Indian positions. -Fact

Fact - unoccupied Indian post, such an act of Bravery.

Few NLI troops sucked in 200,000 IA soldiers, IAF and IA main artillery regiments from Punjab, leaving it less guarded - Fact

Wrong

There is already a heavy military buildup in J&K both at LAC, LOC and Leh, Kargil and Siachen sector.

Siachen itself has a own Brigade.

Most of the troops in kargil ops belong to Mountain brigade already deployed there.

India lost more men

How do you know when your own Gen and ISI is unclear of number of casualties ? Raed the above post.

Moreover official Indian military ratio for High Altitude warfare is 9:1 since the enemy had the advantage of Height.

Even then and "official" casualties -

Pak - 453 (without Al Badr Mujahedeen)

India - 527

Note this number is only for uniformed soldiers not Al Badr Mujahideen.

Jets and equipment- Fact

Like what Migs ? Yes.

But we tried our best to make it up for it by capturing several Stingers and few Anzas apart from load of POF made weapons and High altitude gear.

Captured Pakistani Stinger - missile cost $40,000

US pressure, Nawaz gave up

I don't care.

NLI withdrew

I call it retreat to save their life. You should listen to the POW statement and the fate especially 5th and 6th NLI.

Top Hill Point 5353 still under Pak control and can easily light up Indian posts and Drass Hwy. - Fact

Pt 5353 is on LOC not beyond it, surrounded by 3 Indian Posts.

Overall India lost part of territory and strategic highest Hill -Fact.

Actually all these peaks where kargil battle took place was part of Pak till 1971, India annexed it after forcing Pak to Sign Shimla Agreement.

Source - Brigadier Javed Hussain Former SSG

The objective of Kargil war to evict India from Siachen in which Pak utterly failed - Fact

Now tell me India won again...

A picture is worth 1000 words

 

[Genghis khan1]

Pt 5353 is on LOC not beyond it, surrounded by 3 Indian Posts.

The new LOC, before LOC use to curved toward Pakistan since the base was wider and mountaintop was being with India now base area cut into Indian side cuz top is being held by Pakistan. Before Pakistan didn't had direct view of Hwy 1D now Pakistan can light it up with long range fire and all the surrounding Indian post which are at lower altitude.

Pt 5353 is on LOC not beyond it, surrounded by 3 Indian Posts.

But we tried our best to make it up for it by capturing several Stingers and few Anzas apart from load of POF made weapons and High altitude gear.

Captured Pakistani Stinger - missile cost $40,000

False Indian claims, need source. no air defence unit ever crossed LOC. NLI don't have Anza, idk where these hell these "Loads" of stingers came from.

 

[Jamwal's]

The new LOC, before LOC use to curved toward Pakistan since the base was wider and mountaintop was being with India now base area cut into Indian side cuz top is being held by Pakistan. Before Pakistan didn't had direct view of Hwy 1D now Pakistan can light it up with long range fire and all the surrounding Indian post which are at lower altitude.

If you can read the previous posts with source, Pak can't even reinforce its position on Pt 5353 as it's surrounded by 3 Indian Posts 5240,5165, 5100 apart from hitting the supply line.

 

[Genghis khan1]

Moreover official Indian military ratio for High Altitude warfare is 9:1 since the enemy had the advantage of Height.

Pak - 453 (without Al Badr Mujahedeen)

India - 527

Now you are contradicting your own statements. If the ratio is 9:1 according to your military, how the hell your supa dupa army just had 527 dead. Did IA start issuing them batman suites?

If you can read the previous posts with source, Pak can't even reinforce its position on Pt 5353 as it's surrounded by 3 Indian Posts 5240,5165, 5100 apart from hitting the supply line.

but your media tell us the different story. Apparently Pakistan have build roads and content bunkers according to Indian media.

 

[Jamwal's]

Now you are contradicting your own statements. If the ratio is 9:1 according to your military, how the hell your supa dupa army just had 527 dead. Did IA start issuing them batman suites?

Is it too hard to comprehend ?

It required 9 troops to evict 1 enemy who has the advantage of height.

There is a cease fire in place since 2003 in any case i've never heard Pak was able to disrupt NH by arty fire.

 

[JOEY TRIBIANI]

He is a disgruntled officer who did not get promotion

as expected .. Engine faliur , disgruntled officer etc etc ..
.
.
.
Bahana tayar ha nakami chupaney ka ;

 

[Jamwal's]

"Loads" of stingers came from.

These are all captured Stingers from Pak during kargil war.

 

[Windjammer]

Guess who first approached America and asked Bill Clinton to intervene.


Indian Army suffering badly in Kargil:
29 June 1999 WASHINGTON D.C.: A report in Washington says that India has suffered so badly in Kargil at the hands of Pakistani military forces that the only way out for it is to attack Pakistan on a large scale. The spectacle of hundreds of bodybags of Indian soldiers coming down from the mountains in Kargil was creating an intense public pressure on the Government in New Delhi to react. “New Delhi will be compelled to attack Pakistan if Islamabad failed to withdraw its forces from the Indian side of the Line of Control. This was the sum and substance of an alarming letter that Indian Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee wrote to President Clinton,” The Washington Post reports. The contents of this letter were conveyed to Clinton in Geneva. According to the newspaper, as he was delivering a speech to the International Labour Organisation, his National Security Adviser Sandy Berger “slipped out to receive the alarming letter.” The letter stoked rising American fears that India, having lost 100s of troops, would “storm across” the ceasefire line that divides Kashmir or open a second front elsewhere on its border with Pakistan. Such an escalation could effectively scuttle the Administration’s dwindling hopes of a “constructive new relationship” between South Asia’s two new nuclear powers. The Vajpayee letter seems to have had an immediate impact as the Administration’s foreign policy engine was thrown into high hear.