On this day, Two IAF Migs are shot down

[Imran Khan]

 

[MilSpec]

IAF changed their operational technique after their jets were shot down and used Jaguars and Mirage 2000 fighter jets. They also began using laser-guided bombs from high-altitude. As a result, their bombing was ineffective and they failed to clear the targets.

Enjoy

 

[Stephen Cohen]

India actually lost Kargil war: Gen Pal


* Indian general says what his country gained from war has not been consolidated

By Iftikhar Gilani

NEW DELHI: An Indian general, who commanded troops during 1999 Kargil war, on Sunday broke his 11-year silence to say that India actually lost the war in strategic terms.

Lieutenant-General (r) Kishan Pal, the then head of Srinagar-based 15 Corps, told a private channel that he did not speak because he was never convinced about this war.

“We did gain some tactical victories, we regained the territories, but lost 587 precious lives. I consider this loss of war because whatever we gained from the war has not been consolidated, either politically or diplomatically. It has not been consolidated militarily,” he said, when was asked for his assessment of the conflict 11 years later.

Gen Pal was recently in a controversy involving the battle performance report of one of his juniors, Brigadier Devinder Singh. An armed forces tribunal has indicted Pal for showing bias against Brigadier Singh; former 70 infantry brigade commander, and belittled his achievements in the war besides falsifying accounts of battles during the Kargil operations.

Meanwhile, a Chandigarh-based former army major has also come out with a revelation that his inputs on Kargil ‘intrusion’, sent to his seniors as early as January-February 1999, were ignored and he was asked to stop sending such reports in writing.

Major Manish Bhatnagar, who participated in the Kargil war, said not only were his inputs ignored, later, when a full-scale conflict broke out, he was court martialled on another pretext and made to leave the army.

He said he had informed his senior officers about the heavy presence of hostile forces and had also apprised them of the large number of bunkers and occupation of vital points by them during his posting. “Later, when the strength of ‘intruders’ was found to be more than the perceptions of the top generals — resulting in mass causalities of soldiers — officers like me were persecuted to hide their wrongs,’” Bhatnagar said.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/india-actually-lost-kargil-war-gen-pal.262456/#ixzz49rYZEqJb

He is a disgruntled officer who did not get promotion

 

[Imran Khan]

He is a disgruntled officer who did not get promotion

Point 5353 still under Pak occupation: brig (Retd.) Surinder Singh
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Chandigarh, June 07: Rejecting the Subramaniam Committee set up to go into Kargil war, a retired Brigadier who was Brigade Commander in Kargil on Monday alleged that a "strategic and important" post in Drass Sector was still under the occupation of Pakistan.
"Adjacent to Tiger Hill, a post 5353 which is about 300 metres inside LoC in the Indian territory is occupied by enemies," Brig (Retd) Surinder Singh, who was the first to make public the intrusion by Pakistan during the Kargil war, told reporters here.



Seeking a judicial probe by a sitting judge into the Subramaniam Review Committee, he sought Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee`s intervention into the "authenticity" on the presence of Pakistan soldiers at Point 5353.




The committee was set up to "cover up government`s failure and save the army`s top brass," he alleged.

Recalling his days of battlefield during Kargil war, Singh said when he was attacking tiger hill and tololing with his troops a few Pakistani soldiers fired upon them from Point 5353. "Pakistan has started developing at the post (Point 5353) and it was informed to the right authorities at an appropriate time," he added.




To substantiate his assertion that enemy is still at point 5353, Singh said he had satellite images showing the presence of enemy at the post.



"The Indian Army could not capture this post during the Kargil war and the claims of the then government on it were false," he alleged.

He demanded that during the next round of bilateral talks with Pakistan the issue of Point 5353 must be raised. "It has to be cleared of enemy occupation as from this point troops movement along Kargil-Drass and Srinagar-Kargil could be captured by sitting at proper heights."



Singh said Former Defence Minister George Fernandes had made incorrect statements on Point 5353 and even went to the extent of saying that such a post did not exist.


Bureau Report


First Published: Monday, June 7, 2004 - 00:00

 

[Stephen Cohen]

@Windjammer @Imran Khan

300 Pakistani soldiers killed in ONE air strike

https://defence.pk/threads/ex-cia-officer-on-iaf-strike-on-nlis-munto-dhalo-depot.208907/

 

[Tipu7]

India WON the kargil War ; Pakistan LOST it ; despite USA being your friend

even though we were fighting defensively and with restraint

And when we Threatened to EXPAND the conflict across the International Border
General Musharraf WENT TO USA for HELP

It was Pakistan which was PREPARING fora Nuclear war because it was
worried about INDIAN ARMY storming across the International Border

It was Pakistan which Lost Both the Kargil War on the LAND
and suffered a Massive diplomatic embarrassment and Loss of face : PERIOD



Those planes were NOT flying over Pakistani territory

Your soldiers on the peaks INSIDE our territory had Stingers

By the way Read this

http://kaiser-aeronaut.blogspot.in/2009/01/kargil-conflict-and-pakistan-air-force.html

While the photo-recce missions typically did not involve deliberate border violations, there were a total of 37 ‘technical violations’ (which emanate as a consequence of kinks and bends in the geographical boundaries). Typically, these averaged to a depth of five nautical miles, except on one occasion when the IAF fighters apparently cocked-a-snoot at the PAF and came in 13 miles deep.

India was badly beaten and humiliated in front of World.
It was political pressure from World which forced Pakistan to return back other wise very interesting game was going on.
What India believe war of Kargil was actually series of skirmishes which took place at one spot, near and at Tiger hills but as per Musharraf claim (which I consider true) our of 5 spots the battle took place at one spot only.
India fought entire war with out even knowing about presence of Pakistan military and militants.......
India won the Kargil was the last joke of 20th century........
Come up with something new now
Lol

 

[MilSpec]

@Windjammer

After IAF brought in Mig 29 and Mirage 2000 ; PAF was just a spectator
watching the proceedings

I share his views, Indian armed forces were caught napping and un prepared, response to kargil should have been exactly what we did in 1965.

 

[Imran Khan]

@Windjammer @Imran Khan

https://defence.pk/threads/ex-cia-officer-on-iaf-strike-on-nlis-munto-dhalo-depot.208907/

see dear i know very well both have fight and have goods and bads . i reply you because you guys have twisted view of history and your media politicians can turn a dark black to shinny white . both have fight both have some gains some loses and humanity lost a war . nothing more for me .

 

[Windjammer]

The AN-32 Incident of air violation.

Wings Of Shame
The controversy surrounding the air force brass is affecting India's readiness against Pakistan

By Shishir Gupta


New Delhi, 22 March 2002

On 19th February an AN 32 flown by Air Marshal Vinod K Bhatia, to inaugurate the extended Kargil airfield, crossed the LOC for some 11 minutes and was hit by an ANZA missile fired by the Pakistanis. The aircraft lost one engine but successfully landed at Leh airfield on the other engine.
Air Marshal M S Sekhon (who has since resigned) carried out a Board of Inquiry into this incident and media reports say that both former Air Chiefs S K Kaul and Sareen have dubbed it a minor incident. On the other hand IDC believes that an aircraft flying 12 Km away from its path, that too over enemy territory, when both sides are in a mobilised state cannot be brushed off as a minor matter.
Air Marshal V K Bhatia reportedly said that he was only the co-pilot and put the blame squarely on the Navigator and the Pilot a Wing Commander.
The sacking of Sekhon has had a fallout on the court of inquiry that he had been asked to conduct by Krishnaswamy before the Badal letter was made public. Sekhon was probing a February 19 incident in which an AN-32 transporter plane piloted by Bhatia had crossed the loc after being hit by a Pakistani missile while trying to land in Kargil. While Bhatia was piloting the aircraft, Flt-Lieutenant V. Awasthy was navigating it. Wing Commander S.C. Chafekar was the co-pilot. It seems that while making a landing approach towards Kargil airport Bhatia flew too close to the loc and was hit by a Pakistani missile. In order to steady the aircraft and gain height, Bhatia went across the loc over the Batalik sector. He was subsequently able to land at Leh airport. With both India and Pakistan involved in a military stand-off, the consequences would have been disastrous had the plane got downed in "enemy territory".

In the inquiry report submitted to Air Headquarters on March 8, Sekhon has confirmed that Bhatia had indeed crossed the loc and been hit by a Pakistani missile. In his defence, Bhatia has raised objections on the inquiry being conducted by an air officer junior to him in service. Bhatia has also pointed out that it was the duty of Awasthy and Chafekar to inform him that he was not going in the direction of the Kargil airport but the loc. Army chief General S. Padmanabhan personally checked the facts at Kargil later. The army confirmed that the aircraft was hit by an enemy missile and not by "friendly fire."

 

[MilSpec]

India was badly beaten and humiliated in front of World.
It was political pressure from World which forced Pakistan to return back other wise very interesting game was going on.
What India believe war of Kargil was actually series of skirmishes which took place at one spot, near and at Tiger hills but as per Musharraf claim (which I consider true) our of 5 spots the battle took place at one spot only.
India fought entire war with out even knowing about presence of Pakistan military and militants.......
India won the Kargil was the last joke of 20th century........
Come up with something new now
Lol

You should look up the views of your own military personnel on Kargil. You will realize what the joke is.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

I share his views, Indian armed forces were caught napping and un prepared, response to kargil should have been exactly what we did in 1965.

The problem was the Nuclear tests that India had carried out

We were MORE keen to establish ourselves as a responsible nuclear state

Our restraint HELPED us in improving our image which had taken a beating after the nuclear tests

Never mind there will be a NEXT time

 

[Crixus]

You guys are really great in shooting planes now start shooting some drones

 

[MilSpec]

The problem was the Nuclear tests that India had carried out

We were MORE keen to establish ourselves as a responsible nuclear state

Our restraint HELPED us in improving our image which had taken a beating after the nuclear tests

Never mind there will be a NEXT time

Might is always right. I don't care about image and all that crap. India should have rolled it's armor and hit where it would have hurt the most. Vajpayee govt did not have the chops.

 

[Imran Khan]

@Windjammer @Imran Khan

300 Pakistani soldiers killed in ONE air strike

https://defence.pk/threads/ex-cia-officer-on-iaf-strike-on-nlis-munto-dhalo-depot.208907/

i have no time to re read again and its false claims of both sides we have a solder he say he killed hundreds of indian solders .

You guys are really great in shooting planes now start shooting some drones

we need AID also what abut our f-16 super cobras and other goodies coming fro USA

 

[Tipu7]

@Windjammer @Imran Khan

300 Pakistani soldiers killed in ONE air strike

https://defence.pk/threads/ex-cia-officer-on-iaf-strike-on-nlis-munto-dhalo-depot.208907/

ROFL

You should look up the views of your own military personnel on Kargil. You will realize what the joke is.

I am fully aware of their views.
Particularly how PN & PAF were un happy about war.
And so called claims of Nawaz Sharif about death toll of Pakistan soldiers.
But what I believe most are words of certain guy (kargil veteran) whom I once met personally......
And he compared the rotting bodies of Indian soldiers with those of dead chicken. Lying in mountains in zig zag manner. Vouchers eating the eye balls.........
No one came to receive those bodies untill war was over.
No one included those death toll in total Indian KIA.
It's all about propaganda & political tactics....