OIC Military Industrial Complex (OICMIC)

[livingdead]

Shia's have already done it, why are you not calling it sectarian? Who helps Assad regime, who helps Hezbollah, who helps Iraqi shia dominated govt. and who helps Houthi's in Yemen with money and arms? Non-Arab Iran is already in the process of creating this sectarian super army with its proxies in the Arab world. Why does it become sectarian when Sunni majority countries govt. and people want to help each other, following the example of the Shia?

What business is it anyways for an Indian to take Shia side and sing for them? Let me guess it, because Indians will always side with the Shia in a Shia-Sunni conflict? Why is that? Its because you guys need Iran to get access to Central Asia and to promote division within Muslims, just like the West.

And let Pakistani's and Bangladeshi's speak for themselves, please, if we may.

Sectarian has become a slur word for insulting Sunni Muslims who want greater cooperation among Sunni Muslim majority countries. Shia's have license to do whatever they want, but when Sunni's attempt to do the same, it becomes sectarian.

I did not take shia side.. I just said what pakistani and bangladeshi govt will probably do. Which is, they wont be part of such alliance. Bilateral relations will of course go on.
This is international forum.. so dont bother if I express my view regarding anything.

 

[al-Hasani]

Shia's have already done it, why are you not calling it sectarian? Who helps Assad regime, who helps Hezbollah, who helps Iraqi shia dominated govt. and who helps Houthi's in Yemen with money and arms? Non-Arab Iran is already in the process of creating this sectarian super army with its proxies in the Arab world. Why does it become sectarian when Sunni majority countries govt. and people want to help each other, following the example of the Shia?

What business is it anyways for an Indian to take Shia side and sing for them? Let me guess it, because Indians will always side with the Shia in a Shia-Sunni conflict? Why is that? Its because you guys need Iran to get access to Central Asia and to promote division within Muslims, just like the West.

And let Pakistani's and Bangladeshi's speak for themselves, please, if we may.

Sectarian has become a slur word for insulting Sunni Muslims who want greater cooperation among Sunni Muslim majority countries. Shia's have license to do whatever they want, but when Sunni's attempt to do the same, it becomes sectarian.

A wonderful post 7abibi. I wish more of us Muslims would follow your line. Don't ever limit your thoughts just due to so-called diplomacy. Most of the time it is just hot air. We have every right to have such discussions as the main representatives of Islam since 90% of all of us 1.7 billion Muslims follow the same sect and have largely similar views. Ignore the hypocrisy. The strong is always feared and conspired against for that matter alone. If weak you don't even want to bother. Hostility for our ideas just means that some of those who want to harm us are worried. This is always a good indication.

 

[kalu_miah]

Yes, I imagined that. A united body or some kind of federation would be a great counter to India's influence.

Ethnicity was never the problem here from what I understand given that Pakistan's founding was based on religion (Islam) rather than one homeland for ethnic group x or y. How is the situation in Bangladesh? Are most of the population not fairly homogenous? (Bengalis)? Closer economic and military ties should be a must IMO.

That is due to Bangladesh' location. You firstly don't border any Muslim country. From what I am aware of there are very few religious minorities among Muslims themselves. The Middle East on the other hand in particular the Arab world is another story altogether.

It is a very complex matter that also partially predates Islam but that is one of the problems.

You should really watch the video when you get the opportunity. It gives a good picture of the difference between the Shia Arab Hawza in Najaf which aims to be a purely religious establishment with the poisonous and political one found in Qom that works for the Mullah regime. As the Shia Arab cleric said then lying and deceiving is also the favorite past time for the latter. All in order to continue with the status quo (securing the existence of the regime and spreading its influence by all means).

If I may address these questions you have raised:

1. Reconfederation of Pakistan and Bangladesh:

In 1947 partition, Lord Mountbatten said that a crazy idea like Pakistan with east and west wing 1200 miles apart will last not more than 25 years, and it lasted 24 years and 9 months. There are many reasons, I would say the main reason is geographic distance and ethnic/linguistic difference and there is the human element, leaders in both sides made many stupid mistakes and helped India to achieve its goal of breaking Pakistan, which people from both sides did not truly want. And the special role of some Awami League leaders working with India should not be forgotten who helped the breakup of Pakistan, they still are trying to keep Bangladesh as Indian vassal (slave) state.

So I firmly believe a special relationship between Bangladesh and Pakistan is neither desirable or workable by both sides and I believe the feeling is mutual. That said, Pakistan as the 2nd largest (in population terms) Muslim country (with Sunni majority) will remain important for the 3rd largest Muslim country, Bangladesh, to have better and improved relations, to further the cause of Muslim world.

2. Shia-sunni situation in Bangladesh:

We have around 50,000 Shia in Bangladesh, most of whom are migrants from Indian landmass and not indigenous ethnic Bengalis, because there are very few ethnic Bengali Shia's, just a few families, who moved to this part of Mughal empire from Safavi Iran and did not convert to prevailing Sunni rule and faith.

So Bangladeshi's in the villages and countryside never ever meet a Shia or many do not even know what a Shia is. In the cities, people occasionally see or meet them (twelvers or Ismaili, Aga Khani's). In old Dhaka, they have a small Shia community, who bring out Tajia during Muharram, and some people get annoyed by the noise, but do not mind it much, just like they do not mind Hindu Puja's and Roth Y(j)atra:

Bangladesh Tajia:

Hindu Roth Yatra, Bangladesh:

Since Shia's are a minuscule minority, they are not a factor in Bangladeshi internal politics in any shape or form. And most Bangladeshi's even those in PDF are oblivious to Iranian theocratic regime's misdeeds, so that is the reason they get surprised, when I start blaming Iran for their misdeeds in Arab world. Frankly many of them do not know what to make of my stance on this issue, because also they cannot see or understand the international dimensions and implications of this issue and why we need to take side with our Arab brothers, who have been victims of Iranian regime's aggressive policies.

 

[al-Hasani]

If I may address these questions you have raised:

1. Reconfederation of Pakistan and Bangladesh:

In 1947 partition, Lord Mountbatten said that a crazy idea like Pakistan with east and west wing 1200 miles apart will last not more than 25 years, and it lasted 24 years and 9 months. There are many reasons, I would say the main reason is geographic distance and ethnic/linguistic difference and there is the human element, leaders in both sides made many stupid mistakes and helped India to achieve its goal of breaking Pakistan, which people from both sides did not truly want. And the special role of some Awami League leaders working with India should not be forgotten who helped the breakup of Pakistan, they still are trying to keep Bangladesh as Indian vassal (slave) state.

So I firmly believe a special relationship between Bangladesh and Pakistan is neither desirable or workable by both sides and I believe the feeling is mutual. That said, Pakistan as the 2nd largest Muslim country (with Sunni majority) will remain important for the 3rd largest Muslim country, to have better and improved relations, to further the cause of Muslim world.

2. Shia-sunni situation in Bangladesh:

We have around 50,000 Shia in Bangladesh, most of whom are migrants from Indian landmass and not indigenous ethnic Bengalis, because there are very few ethnic Bengali Shia's, just a few families, who moved to this part of Mughal empire from Safavi Iran and did not convert to prevailing Sunni rule and faith.

So Bangladeshi's in the villages and countryside never ever meet a Shia or many do not even know what a Shia is. In the cities, people occasionally see or meet them (twelvers or Ismaili, Aga Khani's). In old Dhaka, they have a small Shia community, who bring out Tajia during Muharram, and some people get annoyed by the noise, but do not mind it much, just like they do not mind Hindu Puja's and Roth Y(j)atra:

Bangladesh Tajia:

Hindu Roth Yatra, Bangladesh:

Since Shia's are a minuscule minority, they are not a factor in Bangladeshi internal politics in any shape or form. And most Bangladeshi's even those in PDF are oblivious to Iranian theocratic regime's misdeeds, so that is the reason they get surprised, when I start blaming Iran for their misdeeds in Arab world. Frankly many of them do not know what to make of my stance on this issue, because also they cannot see or understand the international dimensions and implications of this issue and why we need to take side with our Arab brothers, who have been victims of Iranian regime's aggressive policies.

A very informative post. I will do some reading about Bangladesh in the next few hours.

This Awami League. Are they the main poison as you see it? How come are they serving India's interests? Why have people, given the circumstances you list, not rejected them and exposed them? Is it corruption? Is India supporting them fully?

We thank you for your understanding and support. But let me make myself clear. There are normal and harmless Shias as you probably know and then there are the ones that I have described in this thread that are under the influence under the poisonous Mullah regime controlled Hawza of Qom. It is the latter that is a hindrance to us and quite honestly a hostile element. The efforts should be to target those ones and to tell the Shias the difference and that they should not come under its poisonous influence. I am mainly talking about the Shias in the Arab world. Southern Iraq, Southern Lebanon and to a MUCH smaller extent the Zaydi's in Yemen who are the oldest Shia community in the world and differ greatly from the Twelvers you see in Iraq, Lebanon, Iran etc. In Yemen in the only problem are the Houthi personal cult that only number a few thousands in parts of Northwestern Yemen. The regular Zaydi is much closer to the regular Sunni of the Shafi'i fiqh than he is to the Twelver.

 

[kalu_miah]

I did not take shia side.. I just said what pakistani and bangladeshi govt will probably do. Which is, they wont be part of such alliance. Bilateral relations will of course go on.
This is international forum.. so dont bother if I express my view regarding anything.

You take Shia side, when you call me sectarian, just like Shia's do in this forum.

I don't know if Pakistan govt. may take part in such an alliance, I will let Pakistani's address that , but I know Bangladesh Awami govt. will never do it, because they are India's slave, but I have sounded this out with people within Bangladesh who have political connections, and they are positive about it. Yes it is a new direction for Bangladesh, but people are not stupid, they know when to catch an opportunity when it presents itself.

The OICMIC idea is good for all Muslims, Shia and Sunni. Sunni's can initially take the lead, it is up to Iran's regime to stop their nonsense, come to their senses and work with their Arab brothers, instead of hurting Muslim interest in the world, with their divisive policies.

 

[-SINAN-]

I think Turkey's place is with our Turkic brother States. A Turkic union would be much more suitable for Turkey as in such a union Turkey would be the one to lead. On the other hand KSA won't accept Turkish lead as they are on par with Turkey. I think that would be different in the Future because of our growing economy and military but as for now i am going with this...

 

[livingdead]

You take Shia side, when you call me sectarian, just like Shia's do in this forum.

I don't know if Pakistan govt. may take part in such an alliance, I will let Pakistani's address that , but I know Bangladesh Awami govt. will never do it, because they are India's slave, but I have sounded this out with people within Bangladesh who have political connections, and they are positive about it. Yes it is a new direction for Bangladesh, but people are not stupid, they know when to catch an opportunity when it presents itself.

The OICMIC idea is good for all Muslims, Shia and Sunni. Sunni's can initially take the lead, it is up to Iran's regime to stop their nonsense, come to their senses and work their Arab brothers, instead of hurting Muslim interest in the world, with their divisive policies.

why is it so difficult to understand that I can have a view about how pakistani govt or bd govt will behave.. the same way you might predict how GoI will behave.. or pakistani govt will
who are you to talk about pakistan in the alliance then.. should have waited for them to tell you...

Anyway.. 3 pakistani members already told their views.. why not invite some more ..

 

[Armstrong]

I think Turkey's place is with our Turkic brother States. A Turkic union would be much more suitable for Turkey as in such a union Turkey would be the one to lead. On the other hand KSA won't accept Turkish lead as they are on par with Turkey. I think that would be different in the Future because of our growing economy and military but as for now i am going with this...

Why am I not included in the photograph ?

Imagine with Pakistan in the Turkic Union where we could stand !

I don't know if Pakistan govt. may take part in such an alliance, I will let Pakistani's address that

Dude do you want an official working paper from the Government of Pakistan stating that we don't indulge in Sunni-Shia BS !

For godsake there have been exceptional Sunnis & Shias in Pakistan who've been loved by all ! Yes we've got Sectarian Issues but thats a long drawn topic & yet we're not a Sectarian People !

There will be no Sunni Pakistan !

 

[kalu_miah]

I think Turkey's place is with our Turkic brother States. A Turkic union would be much more suitable for Turkey as in such a union Turkey would be the one to lead. On the other hand KSA won't accept Turkish lead as they are on par with Turkey. I think that would be different in the Future because of our growing economy and military but as for now i am going with this...

Sinan bro, the total population of these states are around 50 million. Kazakhstan has oil and Turkmenistan has gas, others are quite poor, like us South Asians. And all of them are dependent on Russia. Uzbekistan the biggest Turkic state with 25 million population is ambivalent. Chances of Turkey becoming a member of EU is higher than this Turkic Union materializing.

But here, we are not talking of unions, the idea is of synchronizing and standardizing military hardware so we can produce it on our own and share production activities in different countries. The main target country for tech transfer, South Korea, is already a big Turkish tech partner, for tanks and howitzers, if I am not mistaken.

Besides, the total military budget for GCC states is about $85 billion ($56 billion for KSA, $18b for UAE), where as for Turkey it is about $18 billion.

 

[al-Hasani]

I think Turkey's place is with our Turkic brother States. A Turkic union would be much more suitable for Turkey as in such a union Turkey would be the one to lead. On the other hand KSA won't accept Turkish lead as they are on par with Turkey. I think that would be different in the Future because of our growing economy and military but as for now i am going with this...

Which countries are that? Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan, Mongolia, Turkmenistan and Kyrgyzstan? No other Turkic states. One Arab state in Egypt has a bigger population than all those combined. Many of those countries are also under heavy Russian influence and will probably remain so. Many Russians live there too - especially Kazakhstan. No land border with Turkey either but several thousands of km away.

Such a union will also be based on pan-linguistic/pan-ethnic ideas which is hardly the purpose of this thread. It is unity among the Muslim nation regardless of language, origin etc.

 

[kalu_miah]

Dude do you want an official working paper from the Government of Pakistan stating that we don't indulge in Sunni-Shia BS !

For godsake there have been exceptional Sunnis & Shias in Pakistan who've been loved by all ! Yes we've got Sectarian Issues but thats a long drawn topic & yet we're not a Sectarian People !

There will be no Sunni Pakistan !

Thanks for expressing your individual opinion, you my friend speak for yourself only and no one else.

And for the nth time, I am not promoting Shia-Sunni sectarian divide, tension or conflict, just more cooperation among "willing" Muslim countries in defense industries. So stop painting me as a "sectarian thug" like some of your other Pakistani buddies.

 

[Armstrong]

Thanks for expressing your individual opinion, you my friend speak for yourself only and no one else.

And for the nth time, I am not promoting Shia-Sunni sectarian divide, tension or conflict, just more cooperation among "willing" Muslim countries in defense industries. So stop painting me as a "sectarian thug" like some your other Pakistani buddies.

Tell you what - Write to the Government of Pakistan & if you receive a positive reply I'd eat my words !

If the defining feature of 'willing countries' is going to be 'sect' than Pakistan would & should stay away from such cooperation !

 

[Aslan]

I did not take shia side.. I just said what pakistani and bangladeshi govt will probably do. Which is, they wont be part of such alliance. Bilateral relations will of course go on.
This is international forum.. so dont bother if I express my view regarding anything.

Talk about what the indians will, what Pakistani GOV will or will not do, and the Bengalis will or will not do is not for you to say. You want to make a point talk about what the indians will do.

 

[livingdead]

Talk about what the indians will, what Pakistani GOV will or will not do, and the Bengalis will or will not do is not for you to say. You want to make a point talk about what the indians will do.

sorry.. thats not how international forums work.. you joined much before me.. you should know.
In any case how will I know what GoI will do, coz I am not in govt? I can only give my view about things, I might be right or wrong.

 

[kalu_miah]

Tell you what - Write to the Government of Pakistan & if you receive a positive reply I'd eat my words !

If the defining feature of 'willing countries' is going to be 'sect' than Pakistan would & should stay away from such cooperation !

We are in the business of promoting ideas, not writing to govt.

If it was up to me, the defining feature may start with "willing" Muslim countries and then encompass small nations of the world in East Asia, ASEAN, Arab world and Africa, so eventually the OICMIC in cooperation with these nations can provide a comprehensive defense production platform that competes with those of NATO, Russia and China.