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OIC – 40 years of failure

Russia an observer state of OIC do you know their census?

Based on self-identification data, the population of Russia includes 70.2% of Russian Orthodox Christians, a little more than 1% of Protestants (including 0.3% of Lutherans), a little less than 1% of Roman Catholics and some 0.1% of Old Believers. About 0.1% of the population are adherents of Buddhism. A Russian census of 2002 found 230 thousand (0.16%) ethnic Jews in the country, but only 8% of them, which is 0.01% of the total population) self-identify as followers of Judaism. 4-6% are Muslim. Small religions in Russia comprise 0.19%. 4% of the population identified themselves as non-believers.



I have given the example of OIC states where muslims are minority. Guyana an OIC member also has more hindus than muslims. So your argument is invalid.

According to the 2002 Census, Guyana's religions breakdown is 57% Christian (of which 16.9% Pentecostal, 8.1% Roman Catholic, 6.9% Anglican, 5% Seventh-day Adventist and 20% other Christian denominations), 23.4% Hindu, 7.3% Muslim, 0.5% Rastafarian, 0.1% Bahá'í, 2.2% other faiths including Judaism, and 4.3% no religion.

GB

The rules of the OIC states that an aspirant should not have an ongoing conflict with a member state.

Pakistan and India have conflict with each other. Pakistan is a member state and is the 2nd largest Muslim country in the world.
 
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Why the hell would we want to join an organization based on religion anyway? The further we stay away from religious forums the better. This includes all religions and not just Islam.

The rules of the OIC states that an aspirant should not have an ongoing conflict with a member state.

Eh? dont' post silly arguments. Both Iran and Iraq were members of the OIC when they were trying to kill each other for eight years. Russia has been given observer status despite the on goings in Chechnya.
 
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The rules of the OIC states that an aspirant should not have an ongoing conflict with a member state.

So the member states can fight among themselves and kill as many as muslims they want?

Then give an excuse to India????

2nd largest Muslim country in the world.

More muslims dying in Pakistan than India.

GB
 
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The rules of the OIC states that an aspirant should not have an ongoing conflict with a member state.

Tajikistan a member state since 1992 has an ongoing conflict with the Uzbek's (who joined in 1996 when they still had disputes).

How come Uzbek's were given membership when they have problems with existing member Tajikistan?

GB
 
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Indian Muslims are enjoying democracy ,secularism and any other right equally as any Indian hindu or Indian sikh or Indian christian does, so I dont think that India being a secular country can gain much by joining OIC which is a religious organization. I also like the stand of Indian Govt. to not to give any attention to OIC after 1969. OIC needs India more than India needs OIC.
Secondly if some Indian Muslims are deprived, then they are as deprived as their Hindu or christian or sikh counterparts.
Indian govt. does not make development policies keeping hindus in mind. It makes policies for all Indians , so when those policies fail, they fail for all Indians and hurt all Indians but not only Indian Muslims. Indian Govt. has given equal right to citizens of all religions. Every section can choose its own leader to represent them in Parliament. I know you wont believe , but you come and see, then you will know.
Third, as far as Hindu-Muslim riots are concerned, I want to say that India being a huge country with a vibrant history, it has had its share of some bad things as well. But now I feel proud that our country has not seen any big scale riot since gujarat(2002). And also, if you see the history of gujarat riots(you can refer to wikipedia) , you will find out who started it . So its not always that Hindus are at fault . I think that Hindus are much more friendly and much more welcoming people than many Muslims in other Muslim countries. Inspite of being a huge hindu population , they never declared India as "Hindu Country" and I being a Muslim is thankful to them for that. When partition took place in 1947, they could have easily asked for all the Muslims to leave India and go to either Pakistan or East Pakistan(Bangladesh Now) and declared India as Hindu State, which they did not do. They understood the importance of living in harmony with everybody and because of that India is what it is today. It does not stand on a particular religious value rather it has its deep roots in humanity. Yes, there have riots in some part of India in history , but i think that we should let bygones be bygones. We, Indians, no more want to be exploited at the hands of some vested interests, like Pakistan, to fight on the name of religion. We have come way forward and "superpower status" is beckoning us.
We are looking for a permanent status in "UN Security Council" rather than a membership of OIC because Indian Muslims dont need any religous organization like OIC to take care for them. Indian Govt. have given them full rights to take care for themselves in their own country rather than looking outside to an impotent organization like OIC.
Fourth, as far as Kashmir is concerned, we are fully committed towards equal right for every Kashmiri. We recognize moderate faction of Hurriyat Conference and we are in constant talks with them. We have many policies for Kashmir in pipeline and we have the political will to implement them. National Conference is representing Kashmir very well in the Indian Parliament. There are very big issues with Kashmir but I believe as development will go on in Kashmir, every Kashmiri will accept India with open heart. The biggest testimony of Kashmir being an Indian territory is "exceptional public turnout" in last Kashmir elections inspite of threats from militants. Kashmir is an internal issue and we are determined to solve it without any external interruption. For long, Pakistan was trying to wage a proxy war against India at the name of Kashmir and now the world has acknowledged that it has backfired against Pakistan. Their own militants are biting them big time. America is making them licking their *** every now and then . You hid Osama Bin Laden who targeted Twin towers. You breed Kasab who targeted Mumbai . You feed Daud Abraham who killed many in bomb blasts. But now you are being exposed. Better look into your own internal matters rather than barking about India's internal matters. As far as Kashmir is concerned, India is yet to take back Pakistan Occupied Kashmir . I am hopeful that one day Indian will charge on and take it back from you as it is also Indian territory . You can open google map and you can see where it belongs to.
Regards
Indian First Muslim Later
 
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I had already discussed OIC and India in another thread. For those interested, here is the relevant post.

I think Pakistanis still don't understand what I am trying to get across. I am explaining to them one of the root causes of why OIC is ineffective. And its because instead of helping out the muslim world, countries like Pakistan are using it for their own political agenda. This is no service to Muslims around the world. This is not help in protecting muslims that are undergoing real atrocities like in Syria, Libya in sub-sahran Africa. There is no unanimity in fighting terrorism on which Pakistanis alone have lost 40,000 lives.

Two reasons are usually give by people here for why India can't be OIC member

(1) Member should not have dispute: So I gave the example of UAE and Iran. Even if you don't agree with the Afghan-Pakistan dispute over the Durrand line, the UAE-Iran example is very clear refutation of this

(2) Member should be muslim majority: Again, these are countries where muslims are not in majority or control the govt. but are still FULL members: Uganda, Togo, Benin, Suriname, Gabon (less than 1%Muslim), Guyana, Cameroon, Cote d'Ivoire, Mozambique. And India's muslim population of around 180 million is more than the combined population muslim and non-muslim of all these countries and more. Moreover, as a democracy, Indian Muslims share power in the govt. unlike these countries which are mostly semi or full dictatorships.

So what is the real reason? OIC is a by consensus body. In otherwords, every decision requires approval of all members. Or alternatively, ALL members have veto power. This where the move by Pakistan to push for a UNHCR resolution condemning India through the OIC was dropped because Iran blocked it in 1993 on Kashmir.

The real reason is that similarly, Pakistan would veto any move by member states to invite India because instead of looking after the greater good and helping muslims world wide, Pakistan is more concerned about its political compulsions. I won't complain about it because other countries do that to. But, lets just clarify that what is happening here is Pakistanis' national interests overriding OIC or the greater interests of the muslim world.

And try to understand that every other country of significance WANTS India to join OIC to rectify this. King Faisal initially was instrumental to invite India to Rabat in the founding session of OIC. Back in 2006, King Abdullah again raised the idea of India joining OIC. It was Saudi Arabia NOT India that talked about it. Now read this article from the chairman of the Saudi Think Tank and you will understand hopefully.

Why not India in OIC - Khaleej Times
As the Organisation of the Islamic Conference (OIC) enters the fourth decade of its existence, it is an opportune moment to introspect on its continued isolation of India – a country that has the largest Muslim population in the world after Indonesia.

With a membership of 57 countries spread over four continents, constituting 1.5 billion people and a combined GDP of about seven trillion dollars, the OIC is the second largest inter-governmental group after the United Nations.

The grouping identifies itself to be “the collective voice of the Muslim world” to “safeguard and protect the interests of the Muslim world in the spirit of promoting international peace and harmony among various people of the world”.

On the eve of his historic visit to India in 2006, King Abdullah bin Abdulaziz of Saudi Arabia said that “India should have an observer status in the OIC” and it would be “beneficial” if Pakistan proposes India’s candidature.

Pakistan, however, objected that any country wishing to get observer status with the OIC, “should not be involved in any dispute with a member state.”

And, therein lies the reason that has hindered the OIC-India relationship since the Islamic Summit Conference in Rabat in 1969, which was held in the backdrop of the desecration of the Al-Aqsa mosque in occupied Jerusalem.

King Faisal of Saudi Arabia played a key role in ensuring that India was invited to the Conference because the issue being discussed was not a matter concerning only “Muslim countries”, but all Muslims.

And, India, with its huge Muslim population, was seen as a stakeholder, apart from the fact that the Indian head of state at that time was a Muslim – Zakir Hussain.

The head of the Indian delegation even addressed the gathering. However, Indo-Pak differences led Islamabad to keep India out for the remaining sessions of the conference and all summits thereafter.

Since then, until as recently as the first week of October this year, when the OIC appointed a special envoy for Jammu and Kashmir, the politics of the subcontinent has drawn a wedge between the organisation and India.

The OIC stresses that as long as the Indo-Pak tension over Kashmir remains unresolved, there is very little room for improvement in the organisation’s relations with India.

While the OIC advocates the issue of self-determination and resolution of Kashmir in accordance with the UN resolutions of 1948 and 1949, India is firm about resolving the issue bilaterally with Pakistan.

This stand has been receiving increasing international acceptance, and appears to be the most viable option to resolve the Kashmir issue.

The debate here is not about Kashmir or about Pakistan.

The larger concern is the Muslim world and what it stands to gain with India finding a foothold in the OIC. It is also natural that India would also gain reciprocal diplomatic benefits through such a move.

While the longstanding Kashmir issue is important enough to be resolved not only for the sake of the people therein, peace in the subcontinent and the Asian continent at large, it is equally important for the OIC to look beyond this issue and address more pressing concerns of the Muslim world.

It must also be argued that while the OIC Charter stipulates that only Muslim countries willing to promote the objectives of the organisation are eligible for membership, many non-Muslim countries have secured observer status and even full membership.

The most recent of them is Russia, which came on board as an observer in 2005, two years after then president Vladimir Putin declared that Russia was a “Muslim power” that desired to play a role among Muslim countries. With less than 25 million Muslims in its ranks, the real reason may have well been Moscow’s attempt to assuage the Muslims over Chechnya and increase its influence in the Islamic world in order to tip the balance in its favour in its power politics with Washington.

Thailand — a predominantly Buddhist country — received the same recognition in 1998.

It is also an irony of sorts that the Non-Aligned Movement, of which India is a founding member and has several non-Muslim countries, got observer status in 1977.

Why not India, then?

India is making rapid progress in terms of its influence in the international arena, not just as a trillion-dollar economic powerhouse, but also as a military and technological giant, all combining to make it a political heavyweight. Given the current buoyant state of the Indian economy amid a bleak world scenario, India’s formal association with the OIC could help forge mutually beneficial economic deals.

Equally important are factors that were highlighted by Hamid Ansari in 2006. The former diplomat and current Indian Vice-President said India deserves to be an OIC member, not just an observer, because though India is not a part of the Muslim world, “it is not away from it; not a Muslim majority state in statistical terms yet host to the second largest community of Muslims in the world; not a society focussed on Muslim welfare only but one in which Muslims, as an integral part of a larger whole, get the attention that every other section does.”

As a result, a formal place for India in the OIC would add to the collective credibility and bargaining power of the organisation. The OIC would be able to leverage India in relation to important issues of the Muslim world. This would help the OIC address the “state of disunity” among Muslims, which many see as one of the worst in 14 centuries of Islamic history.

In a post-9/11 21st century, the Muslim world faces numerous challenges – poverty, terrorism, calls for political reform and unemployment.

In addressing these and implementing the Ten-Year Programme of Action that was laid out at the OIC Summit in Makkah in 2005, India’s experiences would be more of an asset than a liability — especially envisaging joint action to promote tolerance and moderation, modernisation, extensive reforms in all spheres of activities including science and technology, education, trade, and good governance and promotion of human rights.

With more than 150 million Muslims, most of them part of the world’s largest democratic process, India deserves to be associated with the OIC. It is also important to note that many OIC members are sympathetic to the idea.

At the same time, one needs to also see the issue from the angle that by denying India any role in the OIC, one is, in fact, abandoning the duty of promoting the interests of the Muslim population of India.

Thus, just like summits have been called in the past to search for common ground among members of the Muslim world on various issues, would it be too far-fetched to call another to find consensus over formalising India’s OIC connection?

Abdulaziz Sager is Chairman of the Gulf Research Center- 2009
 
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As long as we have slaves of America as our leaders OIC will never work for betterment of Muslims what need to do is get rid of these traitors and should have true Muslims as our leaders
 
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The OIC's greatest drawback was the Arab -Persian issue.
Something that will still prevent any strong bloc to form.

India should have been part of the OIC on day one, even if as an observer... or ideally with partial privileges.
It does represent a large Muslim population, and has a say.. perhaps it may even have prevented any lingering communal tensions that exist today. As the Muslims of India would have felt that they have even more importance than today.. and are responsible for representing their nations interest with a large section of the world.
 
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Indian Muslims are enjoying democracy ,secularism and any other right equally as any Indian hindu or Indian sikh or Indian christian does, so I dont think that India being a secular country can gain much by joining OIC which is a religious organization. I also like the stand of Indian Govt. to not to give any attention to OIC after 1969. OIC needs India more than India needs OIC.
Secondly if some Indian Muslims are deprived, then they are as deprived as their Hindu or christian or sikh counterparts.
Indian govt. does not make development policies keeping hindus in mind. It makes policies for all Indians , so when those policies fail, they fail for all Indians and hurt all Indians but not only Indian Muslims. Indian Govt. has given equal right to citizens of all religions. Every section can choose its own leader to represent them in Parliament. I know you wont believe , but you come and see, then you will know.
Third, as far as Hindu-Muslim riots are concerned, I want to say that India being a huge country with a vibrant history, it has had its share of some bad things as well. But now I feel proud that our country has not seen any big scale riot since gujarat(2002). And also, if you see the history of gujarat riots(you can refer to wikipedia) , you will find out who started it . So its not always that Hindus are at fault . I think that Hindus are much more friendly and much more welcoming people than many Muslims in other Muslim countries. Inspite of being a huge hindu population , they never declared India as "Hindu Country" and I being a Muslim is thankful to them for that. When partition took place in 1947, they could have easily asked for all the Muslims to leave India and go to either Pakistan or East Pakistan(Bangladesh Now) and declared India as Hindu State, which they did not do. They understood the importance of living in harmony with everybody and because of that India is what it is today. It does not stand on a particular religious value rather it has its deep roots in humanity. Yes, there have riots in some part of India in history , but i think that we should let bygones be bygones. We, Indians, no more want to be exploited at the hands of some vested interests, like Pakistan, to fight on the name of religion. We have come way forward and "superpower status" is beckoning us.
We are looking for a permanent status in "UN Security Council" rather than a membership of OIC because Indian Muslims dont need any religous organization like OIC to take care for them. Indian Govt. have given them full rights to take care for themselves in their own country rather than looking outside to an impotent organization like OIC.
Fourth, as far as Kashmir is concerned, we are fully committed towards equal right for every Kashmiri. We recognize moderate faction of Hurriyat Conference and we are in constant talks with them. We have many policies for Kashmir in pipeline and we have the political will to implement them. National Conference is representing Kashmir very well in the Indian Parliament. There are very big issues with Kashmir but I believe as development will go on in Kashmir, every Kashmiri will accept India with open heart. The biggest testimony of Kashmir being an Indian territory is "exceptional public turnout" in last Kashmir elections inspite of threats from militants. Kashmir is an internal issue and we are determined to solve it without any external interruption. For long, Pakistan was trying to wage a proxy war against India at the name of Kashmir and now the world has acknowledged that it has backfired against Pakistan. Their own militants are biting them big time. America is making them licking their *** every now and then . You hid Osama Bin Laden who targeted Twin towers. You breed Kasab who targeted Mumbai . You feed Daud Abraham who killed many in bomb blasts. But now you are being exposed. Better look into your own internal matters rather than barking about India's internal matters. As far as Kashmir is concerned, India is yet to take back Pakistan Occupied Kashmir . I am hopeful that one day Indian will charge on and take it back from you as it is also Indian territory . You can open google map and you can see where it belongs to.
Regards
Indian First Muslim Later

There is a part I read in Quran, that said about being any thing before Islam, means you sit and wait for your punishment.

Have you also come across that part ?
 
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There is a part I read in Quran, that said about being any thing before Islam, means you sit and wait for your punishment.

Have you also come across that part ?

well, got you now beta. You were referring to my id which says "Indian first Muslim Later". Come out of Quran Beta. World is bigger than Quran(or any other holy book for that matter). Do you read in Quran how to sneeze before sneezing? Do you read in Quran how to walk before walking? Do you read in Quran how to talk before talking ? Do you read in Quran how to love before loving? The answer is No. Sneezing, Walking , talking and loving are the values that have come natural to you with time. In the same way my patriotism comes natural to me with time. I dont need to look into any Holy Book to confirm my love for my motherland. My country naturally is my priority . It is above any religion for me.
Jai Hind
 
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Saudi Arabia, Libya, UAE, Qatar, Oman, Bahrain etc are very high in HDI, so u r wrong about that part....Although that was not the result of OIC...

The OIC had not been successful cuz some(or most) of the members were corrupt and didnt support Islamic interests. AU had been a failure so far for the same reason....
 
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