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Officers Detained at Dulles, Call off visit

If they were treated like "scumbags" then they had and still have the option of reporting the concerned TSA officials to their superiors. I do not believe they were treated like scumbags. However I do believe that they were not treated with the "deference" they are used to in their home country.

It was an official visit, show some respect! We give a formal protocol to your generals, don't we? We, PAKISTANIS have to follow proper procedures in our airports; yet, your politicians and generals are given a leeway. If you think that our generals or politicians should not be given a protocol when coming to the U.S. on an official visit than we should not give your generals or politicians a formal protocol.
Alas, we need a MAN in Pakistan to do that!
 
After airport scrap, Pak recalls defence team on US visit



WASHINGTON: The increasingly frayed ties between Washington and Islamabad unraveled a little further this week after a slew of misunderstandings led to a Pakistani military delegation being offloaded from a commercial flight in the US. In retaliation, a distraught Pakistan scrubbed the visit and recalled the team home despite an apology from the Pentagon for the incident.

It all began when a nine-member group of high-ranking Pakistani military officers led by a brigadier general boarded United Airlines flight 727 at Washington Dulles Airport to Tampa for a visit to the US Central Command headquarters, on a US invitation. According to the Pakistani version, a travel-weary member of the delegation, which had just arrived in the US after a long journey from Pakistan, said, I hope this is my last flight or words to that effect.

The comment was either reported by a passenger or overheard by a crew member; in either case, it was misconstrued or deemed inappropriate, according to the airline. Ground officials were notified even as the plane was ready to depart. Security personnel with guns boarded the plane and the officer was asked to disembark. Moments later, the whole delegation was offloaded.

Explanations and altercations followed. The plane was held up for more than 40 minutes beyond its departure time; many passengers, scared by the commotion, also disembarked and rebooked on other flights.

According to the Pakistanis, the delegation was refused telephonic access to the Pakistani embassy and airport security officials declined to recognize letters of invitations from their hosts and explanations about the innocuous remark made by one of the officers. By the time the matter was sorted out several hours later, ending with an apology from the Pentagon for the fracas and United offering to rebook the team on another flight, an angry Islamabad had directed the delegation return to Pakistan in protest against the treatment.

This is not the first time that Pakistanis have taken offence to treatment in US airport, a theme that forms part of a growing South Asian narrative about racial profiling and discrimination at the hands of US security. One American explanation is that it is result of cultural misunderstandings many people from the subcontinent have a sense of privilege that put pride and prestige ahead of security concerns and often causes them to be abrasive.

In this case, the Pakistanis claim their delegation was well-behaved and courteous, submitted to questioning, and furnished all possible proof and documentation about their bona fides; it was the US security people who were abrasive. They did not let them speak and treated them like terrorists, a Pakistani official was quoted as saying.

The investigators were unprofessional, junior officials.

In any event, the episode adds to a growing body of incidents that have led the two countries and their militaries to mistrust each other. US officials dishonestly keep praising Islamabad's fight against terrorism even though their people on the ground record massive evidence (revealed in Wikileaks) that show Pakistan using terrorism to further what it deems as its strategic objectives.

At the same time, US officials also openly accuse Pakistan of harbouring Taliban and al-Qaida elements and endorse the drone campaign while at the same time lavishing billions of dollars in military and civilian aid.

The mismatch between stated policy, ground reality, perceptions, and execution is causing deep schisms in US-Pakistan ties that come to the fore in episodes such as the one at Washington Dulles.



After airport scrap, Pak recalls defence team on US visit - US - World - The Times of India
 
It's curious that no Europeans or Japanese make "inappropriate comments" on US carriers.

US military pros on the forum complain that the views expressed here are anti-American - and yet they never seem to examine the content of their own behaviour - the terms of engagement with them are the same as with Americans elesewhere, everybody has to agree and cheerlead or else they are jealous and all sorts of there things -- these terms are not acceptable the world over and they should not be acceptable here.

The US has a problem, it's absolutely everywhere in her interaction with Muslims, it does nto matter from where - all these different Muslims from all over the worldm, they all drink from the poisoned well? really?

TSA a problem, in this instance sure, but TSA is a govt agency, do you really believe TSA does not know who is on which flight? I think Pakistanis should show some measure of self respect, and avoid the possibility of further such instances. Why should US respect them if they do not choose to respect themselves?

So many here many absurd excuses for the US government officials, Why? How do you expect to change anything if you are willing to bend over, to play dead? No one has suggested that relations be broken but these events will continue, so why not deny the possibility of such events happening to Pakistani officials at the hands of their so called ally? This is alliance? Both sides telling lies to each and themselves, this isthe substance of alliances?. Lets build respectful relations first, alliances will have to wait a very long time indeed.
 
Would the TSA dare do it to an Israeli general----the news media will skin the TSA alive and then some


Thank you, MK -- We are not enemies of US, we are it's supporters, but this support does not mean we have lost our minds and our ability to reason.
 
It is a mere BS to think that alliance is build on weapons! You need to have cultural interaction! Pakistanis sure have a 'know-how' of American culture but Americans in general do not even know the difference between Pakistan and Afghanistan. See the alliance between the U.S. and Israel! Media does not give a sh-t to them but the so called non Nato ally gets all the crap--alliance? Americans coming to Pakistan require five gunmen because local people supposedly hate them, alliance?

Alliance is build on cultural relations, economic and than military!
Are you too naive to think that the U.S. and Pakistan are allies, really?

You know, American mps are right that this forum is anti American but why do you think it is?
 
We don't need your aid or F 16s. We need respect! Give us respect, mainstream media should play a positive role! Only then you will see a true change---

Cultural know how!!!
 
This thread is bullshit. I've seen caucasian grandmothers in wheelchairs frisked by TSA agents who are Muslim women in Hijab. THAT is the U.S. system.

"Oooh the Americans are soooo paranoid!" You'd be to, you should be, with regards to the air travel system. I am briefed every nine months on the threat to air travel on a secret level. Paranoid? You bet. You are allowed to be paranoid when there have been attempted cockpit breaches, assaults, and multiple bombing attempts, all since 9/11. The liquid bomb attempt in Britain was very real, and very deadly.

I'm sorry the Pakistani Generals got their feelings hurt. Welcome to the club. A professional would have continued the mission instead of "making a statement" by hightailing it home. As a commercial pilot, in uniform, I get the exact same scrutiny as a young "Middle Eastern-looking" male. I have had pen knives confiscated. When I asked why, the answer was "You might take control of the airplane." Duh, I am already in control of the airplane and can kill everyone with a flick of my wrist.

Yes it's ridiculous - it's the world that has been created. My friends and workmates had their throats cut on 9/11 and were the first dead of that awful day. So how about a professional attitude? Is that asking too much? If they don't want to fly commercial, buy a freaking Gulfstream and fly that way. :angry:
 
Chogy


Why is that you guys think you are the only people concerned about security? Or the only people briefed?

How long are you going to use 9/11? I think we have had to endure this 9/11 stuff for way to long - not that the threat has gone away, it hasn't but clearly the way in which the US especially has responded is beyond the bounds of reason -- the US response, "we offend everybody, so tgoo bad about you officers" - what the heck kind of position is that to take??

You guys have become so defensive that it has become impossible to get you people to think -- every bit trash tghe US govt produces is suddenly from Sinai? Is that any kind of position to take?

Instead of "that was out of line and should be investigated further" - the responses from our "American" (muslims not allowed) contingent is that you gotta swallow it -- you just don't seem to be hearing the world saying, "no we don't" - we're now taking past you guys, is that a position the US should be in?? THINK!
 
... america is turning into a rascist society. It is starting turn into a parnoid community as well----
I'm old enough to remember when politicians screamed "racism" at every arrest of a black (not "African-American") man. Eventually crime grew to such levels that black politicians and reporters wrote of walking in terror through black neighborhoods, hoping that a white cop would show his face so they could feel better.

Then they started to realize the error of their ways. Before they assumed that blacks were always innocent; now they understood that racism - black or white - should not be used as an excuse to shield and encourage the growth of a criminal class.
 
What's your point Sol? Are cops then right in every instance? Is racism really non-existent in the US?

Whom do you wish to influence? You think we are strangers to US?


Was it good and right to make a rountine flight, an everyday event, into this kind of event?
 
Chogy
Why is that you guys think you are the only people concerned about security? Or the only people briefed?

Now where did I ever insinuate anything of the sort?

How long are you going to use 9/11? I think we have had to endure this 9/11 stuff for way to long - not that the threat has gone away, it hasn't...

Everything I mentioned, with the exception of the cut throats, was post 9/11. The threat is ongoing, continuous, and severe. How many attempted bombings on airlines do there have to be before we are allowed to be paranoid? All countries should be... airlines are a favorite target.

but clearly the way in which the US especially has responded is beyond the bounds of reason -- the US response, "we offend everybody, so tgoo bad about you officers" - what the heck kind of position is that to take??

We treat everyone equally crappy. How hard is it to mail-order a uniform and print out a cool Centcom letter? U.S. Four-Star Generals get treated the same as a homeless guy who smells.

You guys have become so defensive that it has become impossible to get you people to think -- every bit trash tghe US govt produces is suddenly from Sinai? Is that any kind of position to take?

We have Muslims managing and calling the shots at TSA checkpoints. What does that say about equal treatment here?

Instead of "that was out of line and should be investigated further" - the responses from our "American" (muslims not allowed) contingent is that you gotta swallow it -- you just don't seem to be hearing the world saying, "no we don't" - we're now taking past you guys, is that a positio the US should be in?? THINK!

Everyone swallows it these days. EVERYONE. Pilots, Senators, Congressmen, probably everyone except Obama. Instead of going home in a huff, a professional defuses a situation. Or, as I said, flies a Gulfstream.

Look, I am not defending an annoying system, but it is what it is. There are no secrets. Air travel can suck and is subject to great hassles. I am deep in the thick of it. As I said in my first post, this thing spiraled totally out of control and should never even have made the news.
 
We treat everyone equally crappy

I guess that is the substance of what your are saying - that is what the US has been reduced to - By Osama? No, by it's government - this response is one that the US govt fashioned - instead of looking to do things better, The US is left with "it is what it is" - who would have ever imagined that the US would have beaten itself down to such a level where doing things better is unimaginable.
 
Originally Posted by muse
Chogy
Why is that you guys think you are the only people concerned about security? Or the only people briefed?

Actually, I do receive briefings that are considered secret, and contain material that is not available to the general public. What is in those briefings will curl your toes and make you want to stay away from airlines.

---------- Post added at 08:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:18 PM ----------

I guess that is the substance of what your are saying - that is what the US has been reduced to - By Osama? No, by it's government - this response is one that the US govt fashioned - instead of looking to do things better, The US is left with "it is what it is" - who would have ever imagined that the US would have beaten itself down to such a level where doing things better is unimaginable.

Muse, there isn't a country in the world that treats travelers worse than Great Britain. Bank on it. Been there and done that way too many times.
 
And you think I don't ? Which is not the same as admitting that I do - I do hope you THINK - we are not the freakin enemy!!
 
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