Officers Detained at Dulles, Call off visit

[muse]

MK

I very much agree with you, US is fighting imaginary enemies - not that there are not real one out there, but what US is doing is using this "enemy" to control the government and society in every possible manner -- The media now self censor, critical analysis is now the same as un-patriotic, the courts suspend their better judgment oin favor of whjat the govt asserts as the lurking threat, the entire atmosphere of society is one where what was once liberty is now a unpatriotic outlook -- to my thinking, just sad beyond words.

But no one can awaken a nation that does not wish it for itself.

 

[muse]

Why it happened only with Pakistanis and not with any other contingent?

Nabil, if I understood it correctly, a passenger "felt" uncomfortable with the Pakistanis being on board -- This is now generally the case, a group of non-anglo Muslims, well, you know, it takes just one anglo passenger to express their discomfort and the Muzlooms have to be taken off the flight - land of liberty? land of fear and political opportunism (you can't call it racism and you can't even call them Muslims, the "real Americans" don't play that.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

Hi,

What do you think---they never went in with enough troops to corral their worst enemy---they let the worst enemy escape when he was trapped due to a lack of troops---the special forces soldiers that were their asked for support and never got it---the other incidences when they had the target at hand and in sights---the authorization was not given---the war took a change in direction from the main objective ( Bin Laden )---the primary enemy to an imaginery enemy in iraq---.

This war of 9 years has become like chasing ghosts---a person at time wonders---who's ghosts are being chased and for what purpose.

A reasonable person would think that a country like the u s---who teaches and enforces goal orientation life style for one and sundry---regardless of where you are---would do the same for its millitary objectives as well---but then, when you see the millitary operations---it is like a confusion created in lala land.

This is an extremely prolonged and fearful war---no one knows who the target is when and where and under what circumstances.

There is a spin created for evey spin---there are experts created for every expertise---there are monsters made and created out of ordinary people---.

But if you look at the history of u s warfare other than the second WW---suddenly the u s is without a clue as to what needs to be done to reach the goals in an expeditious manner.

The problem with chasing ghosts is that sometimes you deviate from your original goal and end up in a witch hunt---at this stage the american war is in the mind---one muslim nation has been totally destroyed ie iraq---the other one AFG---how far could they push it into stone age---I guess not too far.

Actually MK the true objectives of war are never disclosed .. Theres a perception that America has eyes on the CAR's Oil gas and mineral resources. May thats why they are pushing the war in Afghanistan and behind the lines its generally a war between US and Russia and Maybe China as well as the later two counteries do not want US influence in the CARs...!!!

However your post reminds me of a book , if haven't read then its a must read.. !!!

Amazon.com: Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001 (9781594200076): Steve Coll: Books

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Many Arab/Muslim or Arab/Muslim looking passengers have been the victim of paranoid passengers/staff on airlines. Reading the accounts narrated by most of them does not convey an impression of 'its just security and we are very happy with being dragged off and detained and interrogated rudely for hours'. The impression typically is one of anger at being targeted for doing nothing other than speaking in a foreign language and/or having ones behavior misinterpreted as 'threatening' by fellow passengers/staff.

Pulling out an Arab looking fellow, grandma or 6 year old as part of 'routine enhanced screening' is one thing, being the victim of paranoid staff/passengers AFTER complying with and clearing all required security measures and checks is another. Most civilians who suffer it in the US have no option other than vent it to the media, if interested. In this case the victims did have an option to register protest and chose to exercise it.

To cast the treatment of not just these men, but other passengers who have been offloaded and detained on the basis of little, as something that has to be accepted is not a valid position to take IMO. The system in these cases is flawed - it should be a simple and quick matter to intervene to find out what exactly was said (or validate suspicious behavior claims) and run a second check on the individuals concerned, with civility, and have them continue on their journey on their flight if everything checks out fine, instead of the huge inconveniences the current measures cause.

 

[nangyale]

The whole point here is that, it seems the US is in a race to the bottom. It wants to be respected the world over, while at the same time treating everyone else as a criminal. What happened to innocent till proven guilty is that another casualty of the War on Terror. It seems that its more a war of terror rather than the other way round.
Situation on British Airports may not be the best either, but does that justify for the US to mistreating everyone. I thought America wanted to be beacon of democary and human rights, what happened to that. Next what are we going to hear that "well atleast we are not treating foreigners as bad as the North Koreans"?
I would agree with our American friends on this forum, that its not about Pakistan or someone being in a high rank or not. But it should be about human dignity and that is for everyone.
The bottom line is, in today's America is it too much to ask to be treated as a human?

 

[MastanKhan]

Actually MK the true objectives of war are never disclosed .. Theres a perception that America has eyes on the CAR's Oil gas and mineral resources. May thats why they are pushing the war in Afghanistan and behind the lines its generally a war between US and Russia and Maybe China as well as the later two counteries do not want US influence in the CARs...!!!

However your post reminds me of a book , if haven't read then its a must read.. !!!

Amazon.com: Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001 (9781594200076): Steve Coll: Books

Hi,

I haven't read that book yet---.

We---most of us think that the big wigs in the govt are very intelligent people who have their fingers on the pulse of the enemy----but what if they are the biggest idiots that there ever were.

What if their analysis how the enemy would capitulate was wrong---I am a firm believer that a picture was drawn up by the likes of Wolfowitz and his cronies that we will go with bags of cash in one hand and a big stick in the other---after the afghans saw our power---they would fold over and welcome us---.

Some of the northern alliance afg that I knew were also thinking on the same lines---that afg will give itself up for the money that would be coming in.

The same strategy was used in iraq as well---it was never anticipated that either the iraqis or the afg would fight a different kind of battle---they thought that these guys would give it up.

What would happen later is that there will be big contracts coming up to re-build those nations---and interested parties would suck up those mega bucks from those contracts and everybody would get rich.

It all backfired---now didn't it---only if the u s had owned iraq after it conquered it and owned afg after it was conquered---things would have been different.

Anyway---coming back to the discussion---tas agents are made up of most of the rejects---unemployed of the community---self righteous idealists---and they treat you the way they do because they don't want you in this country and they treat everybody else in the same manner---because they are working way beyond their actual paygrade that they could have qualified under normal times.

 

[GentlemanObserver]

Nabil, if I understood it correctly, a passenger "felt" uncomfortable with the Pakistanis being on board -- This is now generally the case, a group of non-anglo Muslims, well, you know, it takes just one anglo passenger to express their discomfort and the Muzlooms have to be taken off the flight - land of liberty? land of fear and political opportunism (you can't call it racism and you can't even call them Muslims, the "real Americans" don't play that.

I can attest to this on my last flight back from Spain ( summer vacation) there was this poor arab dude in full garb sitting two rows behind me, and i clearly remember this white lady making a fuss about why is he on the plane...

He... WTF, he is just as entitled to be on the plane as you or me. Their fear is irrational considering a terrorist would not be dressed in traditional grab if he or she were serious.

Sadly we as Muslim have only ourselves to blame.

 

[muse]

Sadly we as Muslim have only ourselves to blame

That's interesting, how so are themselevcs to blame for others fears and racist attitudes?

 

[MastanKhan]

The whole point here is that, it seems the US is in a race to the bottom. It wants to be respected the world over, while at the same time treating everyone else as a criminal. What happened to innocent till proven guilty is that another casualty of the War on Terror. It seems that its more a war of terror rather than the other way round.



Hi,

You go to the cnn web-site and read the comments of americans on the Cafferty reports and then you will understand that there is still hope for everyone.

Now---the educated and learned and people with any kind of conscience are openly commenting that the iraq war was wrong and so is the afg war.

Americans are wonderful people overall---it is just that the vested groups want to forward their agenda a little too strongly and in doing so---they spew out a lots of venom against the muslim community---. In the past---you lost an election---you would say---okay---let them run the country---next term will be ours---now the change that is in the coming is that we want to be in power and stay in power for long to move our agenda forward.

The playing field has shifted---the game plans are not the same any more---in order to win---you have to create an enemy that you would subdue when you get into power, and which the current govt is not doing.

There are spins being put on spins---there are scenarios being created---fictitious scenarios---a state of fear is being brought into the society---.

Those in power are saying to those less capable---there are bad forces coming to surround us---elect us---and we will protect you from those bad forces---those people are evil---you have to fear them---they will come and change the way we will---they will steal our source of power and make us like them---they will subjugate us---.

This fear mongering has taken a totally different turn never seen in this country since McCarthyism---and what is this all about---it is to win in the elections---some of the songressmen, senators are selling their souls and senses to the fundamentalists just so that they can stay in their seats---and those who are not---some of them are trying real hard to emulate those who are.

But there are quite a few conscientious americans as well running for the elections as well.

 

[GentlemanObserver]

That's interesting, how so are themselevcs to blame for others fears and racist attitudes?

Because we are not unified in condemnation where necessary, we don't speak out with one voice when a single Muslim is robbed of his or her rights, because we would rather hide under a cloak of "ignorance" then do some hard soul searching and examine how the world sees us and how we interact with a evolving world.

Take the India abuse in Ausiland= did you see the Indian condemnation with 1 unified voice, did you see the reaction it had in Australia and the world, did you see the results it delivered....

In Unity is strength.

Because we are weak and scattered. When i first came to the UK, i was shocked at the state of Muslim women here, it is as if they are living in pindi bhatian for god's sake.

Total segregation, no integration, no cross-culture or interfaith bridge building. Whatever little is being done now is too little too late.

Muslims = Spent Force.

p.s.: forgive me if i have been to critical.

 

[muse]

Muslim= spent force?

Perhaps, but lets also be clear, where as India is one country, Muslims are spread all over the world, different countries, different languages, national experiences -- Patience, it's best we focus on what can be done.

 

[GentlemanObserver]

Muslim= spent force?

Perhaps, but lets also be clear, where as India is one country, Muslims are spread all over the world, different countries, different languages, national experiences -- Patience, it's best we focus on what can be done.

Indeed sir you are very right. My analogy was rather broad and i accept the limitations facing us.

 

[NWO]

Is there any plans to bring them back yet? Has the Pentagon said anything?

 

[GentlemanObserver]

Is there any plans to bring them back yet? Has the Pentagon said anything?

it is my understanding they are already back in Pak. Do you mean go back to US for another meeting?

 

[muse]

TSA actions embarass US govt so that it offers "apologies" - a great country reduced to be embarassed before the world by it's own (US govt) employees - While US undersecretary offers apologies, White House spokesman, terms the event as a "misunderstanding":



US ‘apologises’ over Dulles Airport incident

LAHORE/WASHINGTON: US Undersecretary for Defence Michele Flournoy on Thursday telephoned Defence Secretary Lieutenant General (r) Syed Athar Ali Khan to apologise over the misbehaviour of Washington’s Dulles Airport officials with a Pakistani military delegation, which led to the cancellation of the Pakistani side’s US visit, a private TV channel reported.

Athar protested against the misbehaviour of the US officials with the Pakistani military delegation. He asked Flournoy to take steps to avoid such incidents in the future. The US undersecretary for defence assured that positive steps would be taken after proper talks had been held between the military officials of both the countries, the private TV channel reported. Separately, White House spokesman Philip J Crowley expressed regrets over the incident and termed it a misunderstanding between the airport officials and the Pakistani delegation. daily times monitor/app