Obama, Hillary clash over US strikes on Pak soil

[Awesome]

I'm pretty sure you meant better, but FYI the Islamic creed on Faith is of six points:

* Belief in God's Lordship, Oneness, and Attributes
* Belief in Angels
* Belief in all of God's Books
* Belief in all the Messengers
* Belief in the Day of Judgment
* Belief in Fate and Divine Decree

Everything perishes and would end - you, me, the world and the universe. That is quite integral to Islam.

 

[Adux]

Sorry, but I didn't get the point of that post, what do paramilitary forces and central government being powerful have anything to do with developing these technologies, to say that Pakistan's only threat lies totally in internal militancy is equal fallacy. And these so called problems have plagued Pakistan for a long time, did they ever stop Pakistan from developing Babur, Shaheen or Abdali?
Pakistan has to be equal to all challenges both internal and external, I am merely pointing out that Pakistan's potential advesaries entail more than just India. And in the long run to meet these challenges it is essential for Pakistan to develop ICBM, the sooner they start the better.

The point is , Pakistan cannot develop those Tech, Americans will know before the Prime Minister of Pakistan does, and will make sure it doesnt happen. Pakistan as a country cannot hurt US interest, nor will they be allowed to have that capability, US takes it as a serious threat from Pakistan,

The Biggest problem with Pakistan is not America or India but rather the remnicent of Zia policies, which has created a very well armed groups of individuals in pakistan, the lal-masjid episode. India has similar problems, but the central authority is stronger than state by quantum leaps. While Pakistan doesnt, that doesnt sound good for Pakistan as a unified entity,

 

[Marathaman]

I'm pretty sure you meant better, but FYI the Islamic creed on Faith is of six points:

* Belief in God's Lordship, Oneness, and Attributes
* Belief in Angels
* Belief in all of God's Books
* Belief in all the Messengers
* Belief in the Day of Judgment
* Belief in Fate and Divine Decree

Everything perishes and would end - you, me, the world and the universe. That is quite integral to Islam.

Isn't the day of Judgement supposed come after death?

 

[Adux]

I'm pretty sure you meant better, but FYI the Islamic creed on Faith is of six points:

* Belief in God's Lordship, Oneness, and Attributes
* Belief in Angels
* Belief in all of God's Books
* Belief in all the Messengers
* Belief in the Day of Judgment
* Belief in Fate and Divine Decree

Everything perishes and would end - you, me, the world and the universe. That is quite integral to Islam.

Well thats call good and dandy, it means nothing to me though i respect your beliefs. For what marathaman said was basically nothing, and a response by Chrome9 which was really uncalled for. This is the problem with muslims to live with non-muslim. The isolation of muslims is by self-imposition. Just as a person should respect your beliefs in life, be ready to respect other's beliefs in life.

 

[Chrome9]

The point is , Pakistan cannot develop those Tech, Americans will know before the Prime Minister of Pakistan does, and will make sure it doesnt happen. Pakistan as a country cannot hurt US interest, nor will they be allowed to have that capability, US takes it as a serious threat from Pakistan,

The Biggest problem with Pakistan is not America or India but rather the remnicent of Zia policies, which has created a very well armed groups of individuals in pakistan, the lal-masjid episode. India has similar problems, but the central authority is stronger than state by quantum leaps. While Pakistan doesnt, that doesnt sound good for Pakistan as a unified entity,

First of all We all are aware of Pakistan's internal threats, but Pakistani's need to be also aware of external threats and in the near future the west can easily look to Pakistan with an evil eye, for that and any other challenge Pakistan must be ready, These weapons are just for detterrence. Saying hypothetically that Pakistan's central government is weak that they cannot develop or covertly develop missile of intercontinental range is off, It never stopped Pakistan from developing missiles before and won't stop Pakistan in the future.

Well thats call good and dandy, it means nothing to me though i respect your beliefs. For what marathaman said was basically nothing, and a response by Chrome9 which was really uncalled for. This is the problem with muslims to live with non-muslim. The isolation of muslims is by self-imposition. Just as a person should respect your beliefs in life, be ready to respect other's beliefs in life.

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No as Asim has pointed out beleif in judgement day is an integral part of Islam, christianity and Judaism. Saying what we believe in is crap, is something which I tolerated, I merely said it won't be tolerated again, atleast not by me. I know you are trying to defend your fellow countryman, but try to be empathetic to the situation here.

 

[Awesome]

Isn't the day of Judgement supposed come after death?

After everyones death AKA "doomsday".

 

[Awesome]

Well thats call good and dandy, it means nothing to me though i respect your beliefs. For what marathaman said was basically nothing, and a response by Chrome9 which was really uncalled for. This is the problem with muslims to live with non-muslim. The isolation of muslims is by self-imposition. Just as a person should respect your beliefs in life, be ready to respect other's beliefs in life.

Hey its fine to err when you don't know about something. I just figured I'd bring you in to the know.

 

[Adux]

Saying hypothetically that Pakistan's central government is weak that they cannot develop or covertly develop missile of intercontinental range is off, It never stopped Pakistan from developing missiles before and won't stop Pakistan in the future.

I didnt say that, I said about Internal threats on pakistan current physical composition. It has nothing to do with Missile development, but with central authority.

Now missile development which will harm US interest will not happen in Pakistan. US will not allow it, and Pakistan cant do without the US in the forseeable future

No as Asim has pointed out beleif in judgement day is an integral part of Islam, christianity and Judaism. Saying what we believe in is crap, is something which I tolerated, I merely said it won't be tolerated again, atleast not by me. I know you are trying to defend your fellow countryman, but try to be empathetic to the situation here

Dude even we have Doomsday scenario, but I find it crap, I find all religions crap, that is my belief. Learn to respect that also.

 

[Adux]

After everyones death AKA "doomsday".

If it happens after I am Dead...I am cool with it..

 

[Marathaman]

After everyones death AKA "doomsday".

Aha...you've got the wrong doomsday buddy.

I was talking about the doomsday here, on earth, and not the one after death.

The day when the religious forces, whether islamic, christian or jewish, will defeat all other religions and eternal peace will prevail for ever and ever under the perfect holy empire.

 

[IceCold]

Now missile development which will harm US interest will not happen in Pakistan. US will not allow it, and Pakistan cant do without the US in the forseeable future

US will not allow it, hell who asks US when it comes to national security. Let me remind you that US if it was possible tried everything she could to stop pakistan from becoming nuclear and then again from testing it. US doesnt even agree with the missle prog of ours but this is not the thing that we usually do with US permission and believe me pakistan when she thinks needs an ICBM will go for it no matter how hard the US tries to stop it. NOthing is more important then the national security of pakistan which even the modest of all government will not jeopardize.

 

[Adux]

Pakistan nuclear development was shown a blind eye during the 1980's, the US threat perception of Pakistan and their influence inside Pakistan is far different now.

 

[The Wisdom Tree]

Your nuclear test example was indeed correct, IceCold. And in extreme circumstances, Pakistan may go and do things it wants without the US consent.

But do not forget those tests were completely in line with it's history - of matching and maintaining a defendable position against India, so it was impossible for it to not conduct nuclear tests.

For your love on ICBM, it is not justifiable vis a vis India and is clearly a direct aim at the west. So, quite simply, impossible for you to pursue ...but I must admit, it could actually be possible if china ships one from it's pile and then we read about a successful "test" ..

However the main point is that your doing so will have global implications, something Pakistan has been careful not to come in conflict with, and has been sticking it's intent with India till now..

Good thing about Pakistan is that there have been a lot of signals to the world community signifying it's balanced, and positive approach towards critical issues

Something I find really commendable, and progressive, and hope Pakistanis in general do accept the global power games and understand what Musharraf is doing.. leaps and bounds ahead of other islamic states ..

 

[Chrome9]

For your love on ICBM, it is not justifiable vis a vis India and is clearly a direct aim at the west. So, quite simply, impossible for you to pursue ...but I must admit, it could actually be possible if china ships one from it's pile and then we read about a successful "test" ..

I agree with all other parts of your posts, though what is stopping pakistan from covertly developing these technologies under the guise of a peaceful space launch programme? From what I understand adjustments to aerodynamics and trajectory related issues and the main hinderence would be the re-entry phase. I'm sure when push comes to shove in the extreme circumstances where Pakistan has to declare theri ICBM capabilities they will have no qualms on testing, just like the challnge that the Indian nuclear test posed. The out-of-china possibilty is a now possibility, what i'm proposing is some time after 2010.

 

[Adux]

I agree with all other parts of your posts, though what is stopping pakistan from covertly developing these technologies under the guise of a peaceful space launch programme? From what I understand adjustments to aerodynamics and trajectory related issues and the main hinderence would be the re-entry phase. I'm sure when push comes to shove in the extreme circumstances where Pakistan has to declare theri ICBM capabilities they will have no qualms on testing, just like the challnge that the Indian nuclear test posed. The out-of-china possibilty is a now possibility, what i'm proposing is some time after 2010.

Its certainly doable, But not as easy as you make it sound, Just like you gave this idea in the forum, You have to understand the west is not a bunch of fools and they are quite resourceful. they will smell it even before Pakistan starts. And from the point on will make sure Pakistan doesnt complete their plan.