NYT calls on US to get ISI chief removed

[lem34]

we should always do the opposite of what our enemies want us to do. This is clear evidence to me that isi chief is a patriot and should be given a medal. Long live our beloved isi that winds up our enemies,

 

[VCheng]

we should always do the opposite of what our enemies want us to do. This is clear evidence to me that isi chief is a patriot and should be given a medal. Long live our beloved isi that winds up our enemies,

So if an enemy wants its own agent promoted, all it has to do is voice public opposition to that agent? International geopolitics is not that simple, is it?

 

[Rafi]

So if an enemy wants its own agent promoted, all it has to do is voice public opposition to that agent? International geopolitics is not that simple, is it?

That is far too Machiavellian my friend, govt's are too bureaucratic and stupid.

 

[VCheng]

That is far too Machiavellian my friend, govt's are too bureaucratic and stupid.

...or is it your naivete that is far too childish? (No disrespect intended.)

 

[Rafi]

...or is it your naivete that is far too childish? (No disrespect intended.)

You give the US and any other govt far too much credit, govt's are basically huge bureaucratic animals, it is asking too much for them to do a double bluff.

 

[VCheng]

You give the US and any other govt far too much credit, govt's are basically huge bureaucratic animals, it is asking too much for them to do a double bluff.

Okay Sir. I will accept your point of view regarding this issue.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Hmm what was a really strong alliance 40 years ago, is now turning into 2 enemies.

Errr ... more like a repetition of the same 'cycle' - the US did much the same right after its objectives were met in the Afghanistan theater - abandon Afghanistan, and sanction and abandon Pakistan.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Okay AM: I will conceded you this point: There should be no scapegoating of the ISI/PA for social issues that are NOT their fault. Please advise me how to ignore tactical and strategic failures, specially recently, or do those deserve unwavering and blind loyalty too?

The NYT is not calling for the head of the ISI based on whatever 'failures' you might be alluding to - for example the inability of the PAF to detect and engage illegal US infiltrators carrying out the Abbotabad raid, rather it is condemning the ISI for actually calling for a 'formalized and transparent intelligence and military cooperation agreement', and not bowing to every single US demand.

We can discuss whatever 'strategic and tactical failures' you think the NYT is alluding to in its editorial, and why you think the positions taken in the editorial are correct or incorrect.

 

[Omar1984]

There is just too much U.S. intereference in Pakistan today.

I thought that Pakistan won its independence in August 14, 1947.

 

[Meengla]

No - It does not work like that.What Robert Fisk said is that NYT people don't go to wars or on the ground they just go to white house or Pentagon etc and get their information from their PR Staff so it always one sided view which is more of a propaganda then pure journalism.

IF tomorrow Pakistan decides to let go of its interests in Afghanistan, especially concerning India there, then Pakistan will more or less re-join the American camp. Pakistan gains nothing in Afghanistan except denying India the space to 'encircle' Pakistan. So far Pakistani military--at great cost to their reputation--is resisting. However, IF that concession is given to the India-US axis in Afghanistan then Pakistan will find it quite easy to smack down the few Talibans allied with Pakistan. And IF that happens then the same 'un-named Obama officials' will be telling, un-officially of course, that 'Pakistan sacrificed so much in the WOT. $68 billion loss. 35,000 dead. Benazir Bhutto and many other dead in the WOT. Pakistan is the most allied, ally' blah blah.
A few days of such headlines and the world will be singing a different tune of Pakistan. And such headlines will go 'viral' and most of the rest of the world media will be regurgitating the new line.

It is a powerful propaganda war.

All those 'IFs' are entirely possible. What is Pakistan's interest?

 

[VCheng]

The NYT is not calling for the head of the ISI based on whatever 'failures' you might be alluding to - for example the inability of the PAF to detect and engage illegal US infiltrators carrying out the Abbotabad raid, rather it is condemning the ISI for actually calling for a 'formalized and transparent intelligence and military cooperation agreement', and not bowing to every single US demand.

We can discuss whatever 'strategic and tactical failures' you think the NYT is alluding to in its editorial, and why you think the positions taken in the editorial are correct or incorrect.

How can I even begin to compare the opinion of a leftist paper in New York talking about a clandestine state secret service like the ISI halfway across the world in a tangled and troubled part of the world?

I think I need to change the way I think on PDF: Let the ISI do whatever it feels is correct for its national interests, and let the US agencies pursue their own, with both sides using whatever means at their disposal. If the NYT is acting as a propaganda mouthpiece for US policy, then let it be so, since the ISI should be coming out with its own forthright and forceful responses to the situation.

Would that be correct AM? If you agree, then I can apply that logic to rectify other faults in my thinking regarding the whole situation. I think I have been mistaken to think that there were enough common interests to make collaboration possible.

 

[VCheng]

There is just too much U.S. intereference in Pakistan today.

I thought that Pakistan won its independence in August 14, 1947.

Yes. Pakistan should begin to act solely in its own national interests.

I think a good way to stop US interference would be to break off diplomatic ties immediately, so that ALL US personnel leave, not just a few military advisers.

What do you think about this idea?

 

[untitled]

I think a good way to stop US interference would be to break off diplomatic ties immediately, so that ALL US personnel leave, not just a few military advisers.
What do you think about this idea?

Who in the Pakistan establishment has the guts to do this

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I think a good way to stop US interference would be to break off diplomatic ties immediately, so that ALL US personnel leave, not just a few military advisers.

What do you think about this idea?

Why?

Ending/limiting diplomatic ties should only be resorted to in case of a breach of international law that the US cannot defend or hide by trumpeting the capture of 'high level Abdul XYZ' - such as a botched raid to get Zawahiri or Omar.

 

[Developereo]

When rabidly anti-Pakistan outfits like the NYT start throwing fits about Pasha, you know he is doing the right thing by Pakistan.

It is the best commendation one can get.