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NYT calls on US to get ISI chief removed

Please correct me if I am wrong, as I probably am, but do you mean it is very hard to argue against US successes from a military and political point? This means Pakistan should have a better plan compared to the aftermath of the OBL raid, if and when al-Zawahiri is found in Pakistani territory.
It is hard to argue against a successful, albeit illegal, US military operation in Pakistan, from a media and diplomatic POV, when the US can argue that it took out a 'major terrorist leader' blah blah blah, and use its international clout to garner support.

A 'botched raid' makes it much harder for the US to justify its actions.
Getting the FDA to allow Pakistani mangoes access to the US market took a long time to achieve, and even that has been delayed for now. I will of course continue to argue for greater market access, particularly the textile sector, but the WTO regulations and Indian counter-appeals make life very difficult in this regard. WTO rules that are applicable are designed to prevent double-standards for market access and tarriffs, right? Which "double-standards" (other than the NSG exemption) are you referring to here?
How do WTO rules apply in the case of FTA's signed by the US with various developing countries?

And given that India opposes anything favorable for Pakistan, including military aid, pointing that out is redundant.
 
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So in essence you are furious about double standards but asking for them at the same time.

What he's asking for is a real relationship, relationship free from double standards & propaganda from the US. A relationship that can be beneficial for both the US & Pakistan, not just for the WOT, but the future as well. The US & Pakistan have been close allies since the latter's inception, & it is in the benefit of both countries to have a solid relationship free from double standards.
 
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How do WTO rules apply in the case of FTA's signed by the US with various developing countries?

All FTA's are compliant with WTO guidelines. More details here:

Trade Agreements | Office of the United States Trade Representative

And given that India opposes anything favorable for Pakistan, including military aid, pointing that out is redundant.

The reason I mentioned India is this context is that the active involvement of Indian expats compared to Pakistani expats (like me) is a very different aspect compared to official positions of the Indian government, specially when considering the US legislative process. The diaspora act through local representatives and contributions, while state actors usually hire lobbyists. The first process is far far more effective, and in this process, calm logical discussion always wins the day over flaming rhetoric or a hysteric sense of injustices past.

What he's asking for is a real relationship, relationship free from double standards & propaganda from the US. A relationship that can be beneficial for both the US & Pakistan, not just for the WOT, but the future as well. The US & Pakistan have been close allies since the latter's inception, & it is in the benefit of both countries to have a solid relationship free from double standards.

A relationship is a two way street. How can the US maintain its part by offering support and aid without expecting that this will result in benefits for the USA too? For example, and in order to keep my post relevant to this thread, how can the USA continue spending hundreds of millions of dollars when critical Pakistani agencies like the ISI are against US interests? A policy that expects compensation for creating a "nuisance value" cannot be durable according to the standards that you have identified.

Before we rehash much-repeated arguments, I would like to see common areas of interests identified from your perspective, for my benefit, to aid future discuss about BOTH sides can benefit from such a relationship, either here, or elsewhere.
 
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A relationship is a two way street. How can the US maintain its part by offering support and aid without expecting that this will result in benefits for the USA too? For example, and in order to keep my post relevant to this thread, how can the USA continue spending hundreds of millions of dollars when critical Pakistani agencies like the ISI are against US interests? A policy that expects compensation for creating a "nuisance value" cannot be durable according to the standards that you have identified.

Before we rehash much-repeated arguments, I would like to see common areas of interests identified from your perspective, for my benefit, to aid future discuss about BOTH sides can benefit from such a relationship, either here, or elsewhere.

Pakistan's support as a strategic partner in the region is very important. Even if you don't look at that, Pakistan is one of the most influential Muslim countries in the world, the 6th most populous country in the world with 95% Muslim population, & a majority of Sunni Muslims. Pakistan is very important to nations like Saudi Arabia & maintains influence over it, which has a great deal of authority over US foreign policy. Pakistan plays a pivotal role in the Arab world, & the US cannot afford to lose Pakistan's support there.

Other than that, if you look at non-strategic, non-political aspects of the relationship, Pakistan supplies textile goods to the US. Pakistan has the world's 9th largest English speakers, 7th largest pool of scientists & engineers in the world, & most of these professionals work in the US, & give them great economic benefit. There are many other things I can't think of right now, but you get the picture.
 
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Pakistan's support as a strategic partner in the region is very important. Even if you don't look at that, Pakistan is one of the most influential Muslim countries in the world, the 6th most populous country in the world with 95% Muslim population, & a majority of Sunni Muslims. Pakistan is very important to nations like Saudi Arabia, which has a great deal of authority over US foreign policy. Pakistan plays a pivotal role in the Arab world, & the US cannot afford to lose Pakistan's support in that situation.

Other than that, if you look at non-strategic, non-political aspects of the relationship, Pakistan supplies textile goods to the US. Pakistan has the 7th largest pool of scientists & engineers in the world, & most of these professionals work in the US, & give them great economic benefit. There are many other things that I can't think of off the back of my mind, but you get the picture.

Before I respond, may I ask AM (or mod for this thread) if it is okay to respond here to the post above, so that my reply does not get deleted prejudicially?
 
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Before I respond, may I ask AM (or mod for this thread) if it is okay to respond here to the post above, so that my reply does not get deleted prejudicially?

you can send me a message on my profile if you want.
 
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So in essence you are furious about double standards but asking for them at the same time.

All FTA's are compliant with WTO guidelines. More details here:

Trade Agreements | Office of the United States Trade Representative

Wonderful - then advocate in support of a US-Pak FTA 'compliant with WTO guidelines', and in the process don't forget to remind the local Congress Critter that without opening the NSG exemptions to other nations such as Pakistan, the US and NSG are supporting double standards, and therefore following a duplicitous and deceitful policy towards Pakistan, given their rhetoric of 'long term strategic relationship and not repeating the mistakes of the past'.
 
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The reason I mentioned India is this context is that the active involvement of Indian expats compared to Pakistani expats (like me) is a very different aspect compared to official positions of the Indian government, specially when considering the US legislative process. The diaspora act through local representatives and contributions, while state actors usually hire lobbyists. The first process is far far more effective, and in this process, calm logical discussion always wins the day over flaming rhetoric or a hysteric sense of injustices past.
And my point is that the Indian diaspora and their supporters will lobby against any perceived 'favors' to Pakistan, be it aid or trade agreements, yet, that opposition from the Indian lobby has not stopped you from attempting to influence your 'local Congress Critters' in favor of aid to Pakistan. My point being, why all of a sudden, when asked to shift from asking local legislators to support aid and instead support greater market access and an end to double standards in the NSG, do you all of a sudden come up with excuses to not do so, or excuses to highlight the challenge in doing so? If you can lobby for continued US aid to Pakistan despite the objections of the Indian lobby, then surely you can also lobby in favor of greater market access, which does not involve sending US taxpayer money to a foreign nation.

How can the US maintain its part by offering support and aid without expecting that this will result in benefits for the USA too? For example, and in order to keep my post relevant to this thread, how can the USA continue spending hundreds of millions of dollars when critical Pakistani agencies like the ISI are against US interests? A policy that expects compensation for creating a "nuisance value" cannot be durable according to the standards that you have identified
How can the ISI 'maintain its part and continue supporting the US mission' when the US continues to implement policies that discriminate against Pakistan and undermine Pakistan's national security?

The US could have negotiated an Afghan regime that consisted of individuals that were also pro-Pakistan, rather than putting virulently anti-Pakistan personalities such as Amrullah Saleh in charge of critical Afghan institutions such as Afghan intelligence, military and interior affairs. The US could have demonstrated through actions, such as a FTA with Pakistan, that it was really looking to cultivate Pakistan as a long term ally. The US could have negotiated with Pakistan terms for an NSG exemption similar to that offered to India, rather than applying blatant double standards.

There is a lot here the US could have done to alleviate Pakistan's national security concerns and distrust of US intentions (given past US injustices) as well, yet the US chose not to do so, and treated Pakistan like a door mat. I don't think the US has any room to complain anymore if Pakistani institutions are not interested in assisting US policy objectives anymore, while the US continues to trample upon Pakistani national security concerns.
 
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Wonderful - then advocate in support of a US-Pak FTA 'compliant with WTO guidelines', and in the process don't forget to remind the local Congress Critter that without opening the NSG exemptions to other nations such as Pakistan, the US and NSG are supporting double standards, and therefore following a duplicitous and deceitful policy towards Pakistan, given their rhetoric of 'long term strategic relationship and not repeating the mistakes of the past'.

Like I said before, the NSG exemption is not going to be possible for the foreseeable future given the present climate, but other than that, FTAs governed by WTO that can survive legal challenges for compliance are always a good thing to promote.

And my point is that the Indian diaspora and their supporters will lobby against any perceived 'favors' to Pakistan, be it aid or trade agreements, yet, that opposition from the Indian lobby has not stopped you from attempting to influence your 'local Congress Critters' in favor of aid to Pakistan.

You may be surprised to know how many of Indian diaspora here actually are in favor of aid to Pakistan, because they realize that a stable and democratic country to their west can help their own economic growth.

My point being, why all of a sudden, when asked to shift from asking local legislators to support aid and instead support greater market access and an end to double standards in the NSG, do you all of a sudden come up with excuses to not do so, or excuses to highlight the challenge in doing so?

Perhaps I was not clear enough: I go try to promote greater market access wherever possible, given the merits of Pakistani products relative to all other WTO member countries that are also fiercely competitive globally for the same products. Again, the NSG is a separate special case independent of free trade considerations for obvious reasons.

If you can lobby for continued US aid to Pakistan despite the objections of the Indian lobby, then surely you can also lobby in favor of greater market access, which does not involve sending US taxpayer money to a foreign nation.

Yes Sir, I understand that, and will continue to do that. Pakistan can of course help matters tremendously by producing internationally leading products at competitive prices. To give you a small example: A large order for tens of thousands of workplace uniforms was lost because the company could not promise the needed delivery schedule due to power cuts. How does one argue against that sort of limitation? That order went to the Dominican Republic.

How can the ISI 'maintain its part and continue supporting the US mission' when the US continues to implement policies that discriminate against Pakistan and undermine Pakistan's national security?

Exactly correct. That is why the adversarial nature of the relationship is growing by the day, and to stop this, urgent efforts are needed to find common grounds as quickly as possible.

The US could have negotiated an Afghan regime that consisted of individuals that were also pro-Pakistan, rather than putting virulently anti-Pakistan personalities such as Amrullah Saleh in charge of critical Afghan institutions such as Afghan intelligence, military and interior affairs. The US could have demonstrated through actions, such as a FTA with Pakistan, that it was really looking to cultivate Pakistan as a long term ally. The US could have negotiated with Pakistan terms for an NSG exemption similar to that offered to India, rather than applying blatant double standards.

The choices in Afghanistan were dictated by alignment with US interest first and foremost, and quite correctly so. If Pakistan has internationally competitive products, then a WTO-compliant FTA would be relatively easy to achieve. However, the NSG exemption is frankly just not possible in the present environment.

There is a lot here the US could have done to alleviate Pakistan's national security concerns and distrust of US intentions (given past US injustices) as well, yet the US chose not to do so, and treated Pakistan like a door mat. I don't think the US has any room to complain anymore if Pakistani institutions are not interested in assisting US policy objectives anymore, while the US continues to trample upon Pakistani national security concerns.

The past is the past, and I would rather concentrate on how to best move forward. The US complaints against Pakistan are quite understandable, but the security concerns raised by Pakistan are legitimate too. I am sure that some areas of common interest can be found sufficient to salvage the overall complex situation.

Both sides owe it to each other, and to their own people, after so much cost in lives and resources on both sides.
 
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US wishing removal of ISI chief = ISI chief doing good

congrats everyone :)

Excellent celebratory news for the nation! YAY! :D

After all, Gen Pasha is the great warrior who looked into the eyes of the US defence secretary and told him that he serves Allah, not the US. Brave and dedicated man for sure!
 
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actually NYT (AKA New York Slimes) is a bigger threat to US interests and security than any other 'news' outlet


as for "calls" --well they can do that till their heart's content. Doesnt change the reality. Same way if Nation or some other daily recommends that Gen. Petraeus step down as CIA head --it wont have much effect on operations @ Langley

---------- Post added at 02:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:48 AM ----------

US wishing removal of ISI chief = ISI chief doing good

congrats everyone :)

+1..... :)
 
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