Notify PAF Aircraft Crashes

[Preacher]

our 40 F-16 are 3 decades old except for few... F-7 are falling from the sky and needs to be retire and Mirage more then 4 decade old what do we have in our inventory? JF-17 and few F-16? J-31 is not coming till decade and what do you think Pakistan will buy J-31 in 100's of numbers? i don't think so there will be only 80 J-31 and 150-200 JF-17 our f-16 need to be replaced after a few years what will we have to counter India?


India have

Su-30 MKI
Mirage 2000
MiG 29
Jaguar
MiG-27
Harpy
Tejas
even sooner or later will get Rafales too

Pakistan have

F-16 number 99 40 are old whic we got in 1983
JF-17.... 53
F-7 Decades old need to be retired number 146
Mirage III need to retires ASAP number 75

Force comparison is not at all linear as described by you. Our military planners are alive to latest details; numbers alone has never been our concern with them As in both '65 and 71 wars. We were outnumbered but Air power gave a good account of itself. Don't get embroiled in details, Trust the professionals to handle such matters.

 

[syed_yusuf]

was it FT-7 or F-7PG

 

[shah1398]

In next 5 years other than thunders there will b a new aircraft showing off soon may b J-10 but not sure. F-7PG will not lose their utility, Still China uses it's j-7. If we are gona finish off F-7 fleet completely what's gonna do the interception job for us, It is easy to say but this isn't gona happen that soon. Today PAF is in need of jet's, as a member said earlier in 13 years we only lost 6-7 of them 2 in a air collision this is not a machine error so, left with 4-5 crashes,..!! look at the rate at which mirages are crashing are the replaced till yet ?????? PAF needs jets today , jet's which are flying well and don't have high crash ratio will not b retired that soon as PAF is aiming to increase number of jet's in its fleet, In the last mirage crash the most newest mirage of PAF crashed our F-16s crashed shall we retire our F-16's too ??? i mean they are older than F-7PPG they also crashed shall we retire them too ???? what will be left if we retire F-7PG too just F-17 and thunder. PAF is not gona retire PG in 5 years it will serve longer

Its not about crash rate but the blend of fighters and their utility that matters. Crashes only occur when extensive flying is executed and same is case with PAF as they are logging in more and more hours, participating in more and more exercises (inland and abroad). A-5s were still flying worthy with almost no crash record in previous years before their retirement but they were grounded as JF-17s were suppose to replace them. Also U r planning to induct Block II and Block III Thunders in next 5 years. So either U ll ask Govt to sanction new Squadrons or replace them with old Sqns and later is happening in our case. Say if 100 Thunders are suppose to be inducted in PAF what U propose would be modus of operandi? I my view they wud do so by retiring old Non Rose Mirages, F-7Ps and PGs. Rose Mirages are older than PGs by decades but they are suppose to stay and is evident by PAF intentions as they are going for AAR in them but not for newer PGs which are suppose to fly more as they are required for Air interceptions.Rest its upon PAF to decide as they ofcourse know better than all of us.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

media says PG but some sources say trainer?

 

[Windjammer]

It was an F-7PG, the news is that it was a flame out.

 

[Muhammad Omar]

Force comparison is not at all linear as described by you. Our military planners are alive to latest details; numbers alone has never been our concern with them As in both '65 and 71 wars. We were outnumbered but Air power gave a good account of itself. Don't get embroiled in details, Trust the professionals to handle such matters.

In 71 and 65 the jets not that advance as now they are... BVR and all others stuff it's now just about quality if you don't have it your screwed and India has Quality fighters

True. But be mentally prepared that the PAF will be a smaller but more powerful air force in the coming years. The modernization via replacements thru JF-17 or used F-16s or (maybe) J-10B or whatever will not be on a 1-to-1 basis to the older Mirages and F-7s. Capability and effectiveness wise the PAF will progress by leaps and bounds but it will be through the formation of a leaner and meaner fleet. That is the only way we can progress safely and steadily in the face of consistently increasing costs of modern weapons. Perhaps when our economy doubles or even triples the current size ... then maybe we can pick and choose in required quantity.

Look m fine with JF-17 Block III i know it will have much better things and quality stuff.... But 150 Jf-17 are taking place of 150 F-7's f-16 will be there till 2023-2025 we have to retire most of them at that time which jet will replace F-16? our 70+ Mirages are about to retire and in bad shape which jet is going to be there when there'll be no mirage?

We'll have air Force like this

50 F-16's
150-200 JF-17
70-80 J-31
90-100 J-10B

30-50 J-11D for Naval Role

after having we can counter any threat by any airforce...

 

[Faiez]

By the time the last mirage or F-7 gets replaced by JF-17, the first JF-17 to enter service will be nearing end of service life

 

[Burhan Wani]

In 71 and 65 the jets not that advance as now they are... BVR and all others stuff it's now just about quality if you don't have it your screwed and India has Quality fighters



Look m fine with JF-17 Block III i know it will have much better things and quality stuff.... But 150 Jf-17 are taking place of 150 F-7's f-16 will be there till 2023-2025 we have to retire most of them at that time which jet will replace F-16? our 70+ Mirages are about to retire and in bad shape which jet is going to be there when there'll be no mirage?

We'll have air Force like this

50 F-16's
150-200 JF-17
70-80 J-31
90-100 J-10B

30-50 J-11D for Naval Role

after having we can counter any threat by any airforce...

Kindly Add Eurofighter Typhoon.

 

[karakoram]

In 71 and 65 the jets not that advance as now they are... BVR and all others stuff it's now just about quality if you don't have it your screwed and India has Quality fighters



Look m fine with JF-17 Block III i know it will have much better things and quality stuff.... But 150 Jf-17 are taking place of 150 F-7's f-16 will be there till 2023-2025 we have to retire most of them at that time which jet will replace F-16? our 70+ Mirages are about to retire and in bad shape which jet is going to be there when there'll be no mirage?

We'll have air Force like this

50 F-16's
150-200 JF-17
70-80 J-31
90-100 J-10B

30-50 J-11D for Naval Role

after having we can counter any threat by any airforce...

Add some 150 mig 35 and 180 f18 super hornet plus 36 f22 ho tuh maza ajaye lolzzz

 

[Muhammad Omar]

Add some 150 mig 35 and 180 f18 super hornet plus 36 f22 ho tuh maza ajaye lolzzz

Paise China dega ya Russia??

 

[Preacher]

The J-10 doesn't make sense as it will be yet another weapon system to manage, which from a logistics and training point of view can be quite a headache. Besides, even if we get them, we won't be able to buy more than 20-odd aircraft. We'd rather get 40 more JF-17s instead.

 

[[Bregs]]

Add some 150 mig 35 and 180 f18 super hornet plus 36 f22 ho tuh maza ajaye lolzzz

better to have 200 hospitals, 200 colleges and some highways instead

 

[Preacher]

better to have 200 hospitals, 200 colleges and some highways instead

Okay, why is not india spending on the toilets instead of getting Rafales spending on projects like Arjun and Tejas which are yet once again postponed ?
watch out your mouth kids

 

[DMP]

That is all fine ... but how does it specifically point towards the acquisition of J-10B? The situation you are portraying can be also be handled by expanding JF-17 production infrastructure and speeding up production (if situation becomes that bad) ... while also keeping an eye out for available used F-16s. Don't get me wrong, I am all in favor of acquiring the J-10B/FC-20 ... but that would depend on a significant escalation over the PAF's top brass's current threat perceptions and the required funds availability.

All we can do for now is to speculate, hope for the best ... and wait to see how things turn out.

how much you can expect to expand Jf-17 production there are round about 2000 men working in manufacturing Jf-17 on 6th sep the residents of AMF colony PAC kamra were took to a visit of Jf-17 production facility i was one of them we were well briefed. 2000 men are working i saw only 4 block 2 under final assembly that time others were in manufacturing progress 4 block 1 were there 1 was for maintenance our production limit is not that much and nor we can go on for more modifications of Jf-17 we are doing it still under loans from china block 3 will b end if it is extended there will b a block 4 nothing more than it and yu said about J-10 that was a conditional jet as you all see first deals were made then canceled there was a condition if India buys rafaels then we would buy J-10 they are buying rafaels we will acquire J-10 now quickly and after retiring mirages and F-7 we are only left with thunder and F-16 we need a third fighter .....!!

 

[aliyusuf]

In 71 and 65 the jets not that advance as now they are... BVR and all others stuff it's now just about quality if you don't have it your screwed and India has Quality fighters



Look m fine with JF-17 Block III i know it will have much better things and quality stuff.... But 150 Jf-17 are taking place of 150 F-7's f-16 will be there till 2023-2025 we have to retire most of them at that time which jet will replace F-16? our 70+ Mirages are about to retire and in bad shape which jet is going to be there when there'll be no mirage?

We'll have air Force like this

50 F-16's
150-200 JF-17
70-80 J-31
90-100 J-10B

30-50 J-11D for Naval Role

after having we can counter any threat by any airforce...

The MLU F-16s are good till 2030-35. Read up on the MLU and Air Frame / Engine refurbishment/overhauling that the Block-15 Vipers have gone thru. F-7PG and the ROSE Mirages will soldier on till 2025. The rest will be replaced by JF-17 and the process JF-17 blocks may not end at III and could go into further improved blocks. A 5th-Gen fighter will be inducted. Not in large numbers mind you because they are going to be costly to purchase and costlier to operate. In the time frame in between if funds are somehow arranged we may see another platform before we induct the 5th Gen fighter. Otherwise we may see another platform after we have inducted the 5th Gen fighter.

You see the purpose is to maintain a minimum deterrence without forcing India to raise the stakes. The game is to keep yourself armed but not so much that the adversary who has more resources is forced to up the ante. Because if we somehow manage what you are suggesting India is not going to stay put and will raise the stakes and get more. Then where will we be?

@DMP you have hit the core issue yourself by what you have posted. We barely can keep the JF-17 production process going because we are doing that (at least a part of it) on credit from China. Unless we get our economy back on track where will we get the money for J-10Bs? Let alone J-11Ds. Now that you mention it ... I think this is not happening for a while.