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Not so secular India

I dont a great deal about other states. But here in kerala , right now, we have a Christian chief minister, and a mix of Muslim - Hindu ministry. In our schools, colleges, hostels Muslims, Hindus and people from other religions study together, live together and eat together. Not once have i seen any one being discriminated on the basis of his/her religion....except in specific places of worship. I share a room with a Hindu brahmin and a Muslim and not once have there been a clash between us on religious grounds.

This sort of talk about "Hindu discrimination" is just plain silly. In my state, everyone....and i mean EVERYONE is treated equally when it comes to rights, education, religion etc.

In my opinion, Hindus are some of the most tolerant folks around. They treat members from other religion with respect and dignity as they would any other human being. A small minority of extremists in India does not make India "non-secular". The very fact that such movements never gain any foothold , in itself shows the greatness of India and her children.

Add to that majority of assembly members and ministers are from minorities and it includes key portfolios.

Its a minority government ruling the state and is a perrfect example of secularism considering the fact that it has the highest number of minorities compared to rest of India

@Mech: I was just bashing kerala in my last post!!!:devil:

!

Ha haha hahahhaahha hahahahahahhaaa :smokin:
 
Ive been to UP mostly, lucknow, Agra.. and a small stopover in Dehli..
It was open, there was little communal problem.. except that you found no beef...Muslims bought from Muslims, and Hindus dealth with Hindus.. the newer generation seemed to be mixing it up.. but not that much.
There were still cases of me having to identify myself as a muslim at a chai stop near rae bareli so I could be given tea in the disposable cup...instead of the glass one(thank god I did not mention I was Pakistani)..
Saw some saffron wrapped jogi or whatever preaching dharmatma(or something to do with your asambhav..cant recall) in front of a mosque and I distinctly heard him get very upset at the mosque's fairly small speaker calling the Azaan.
I have relatives there, compared to them.. the side of the family that is in Pakistan is literally bathing in gold.
These people are very patriotic, they love India.. but do mumble it out about the time they needed to run away from a Hindu superiority gang that happened some time ago


As mentioned by Developero.. its not the secularism of most Indians in doubt..
its political motivations that keep that peace in a delicate balance.
Rapes, murders dont translate into the non-existence of secularism..
What does is when the state is being run by folks who believe in the superiority of a single religion over all others, and that religion's right to being the sole inheritor of the land.



Your post actually has confused me a lot!!! SERIOUSLY! will tell u why (wrt to each BOLD part):-

1. Beef is not allowed across India to preserve "communal harmony" ! and I stay in kerala, which is from some other planet!!! here everyone, I mean everyone, just eats BEEF!!! being a "normal" Hindu, I can't have beef or pork, and I can't find mutton here!!!! will tell u one more little secret, across India, 90% or may be more of all the butchers and meat-sellers are Muslims (which again I don't know why, but never bothered to question!!). so here u r surely wrong. (UP and Bihar are 98% similar in every way possible!!and my in-laws are based in UP, so I visit it a LOT to preserve "communal harmony" in my house!!!)

2. Nowhere in India have I even seen someone being asked for religion before being given tea!! and believe me, I don't have the word "Hindu" inscribed on my forehead! So,if true, that must have been "one in a billion case". and What more, in my school days cricket team we had 4 muslims, and one pseudo-christian (this a$$ was a hindu, but wanted to become a christian!! God only knows why!!!)and we used to have ice-creams and tea together, visit each-other's homes during Eid and Holi PRIMARILY for the FOOD!!!!
(and I tell u, no hindu lady can make sewaiyan the way its made in Muslim households, I don't know how!!!!!)

3. that saffron-clad jogi must have been one particular nut-case. and also, across the country, I find EACH and EVERY mosque transmitting Azaan through loudspeaker at such a high volume level that it irritates me!!! now now, before u declare me a RSS agent, the same loud noises used during Hindu festivals irritate me equally!!! and regarding ur post, NO MOSQUE in country plays it at a low volume. Here again, that day, their amplifier must have been under repair. and yet again I must tell u, people try to neglect this thing,because WE R NOT SUPPOSED TO INTERFERE IN ANYONE ELSE'S RELIGION!!! thats what happens across the country!

4. As regard to last part of your post--- U visited UTTAR PRADESH!!! The land where only Mulayam Singh yadav and Mayawati ahve ruled for last 15-16 years!! Mulayam will die but won't let even one Muslim being touched (not for any love, but because Muslims are his MAIN votebank!!! see his statements even today, Google it!).and Mayawati is the greatest supporter of Dalits and minorities in india. she has just one enemy-- UPPER CASTE HINDUS!!

now I will ask u again, are u sure u went to U.P. only????????

(have posted it again so that Santro can see it and then reply back.... if he wants to...)
 
Dear Santro,

India is not a perfect and uniform society.. We are a racist society..
We make fun of each other, discriminate against each other and mostly get along with each other

Do you know what that each other is ?
It can be Hindu Muslim, christian Muslim, Hindu Jain etc etc
It can be North India South Indian, Gujarati Bengali etc etc
It can veg non-veg etc etc

But we get along with each other
Do you know why ?
Becuase of tolerance and respect for the others...


Let me take you point by point.


Ive been to UP mostly, lucknow, Agra.. and a small stopover in Dehli..
It was open, there was little communal problem.. except that you found no beef...

That is out of respect for Hindus..
Heck even I might love beef but I am OK with it..

Do you know we celebrate Diwali, Chritmas, Id equally ?
Why?
Same answer
Because of respect for each other

Muslims bought from Muslims, and Hindus dealth with Hindus.. the newer generation seemed to be mixing it up.. but not that much.
There were still cases of me having to identify myself as a muslim at a chai stop near rae bareli so I could be given tea in the disposable cup...instead of the glass one(thank god I did not mention I was Pakistani)..

I will give you the example of Mumbai.. There are some societies where you are not allowed to rent out..
Do you know why ?
Because of cultural factor like vegetarian, non - vegetarian etc etc

Don;t identify it with religion.
Identify it with the each other concept I was talking about

It is the same for Hindus and it is the same for Muslims


Saw some saffron wrapped jogi or whatever preaching dharmatma(or something to do with your asambhav..cant recall) in front of a mosque and I distinctly heard him get very upset at the mosque's fairly small speaker calling the Azaan.

There is a place called Gilbert Hill in India.. The sorrounding is Muslim dominated..But there is a temple in the middle..
They are not OK with the temple.. They have problems..

Please don;t try to associate everything with Muslim victimization and Hindu dominance

I have relatives there, compared to them.. the side of the family that is in Pakistan is literally bathing in gold.
These people are very patriotic, they love India.. but do mumble it out about the time they needed to run away from a Hindu superiority gang that happened some time ago

This is societal and cultural.

Majority of the Muslims in India are concentrated in the backwars states of UP, Bihar and West Bengal..

Hindus and people of other religion are poor there too..

Do you know what is common between poverty and God ?

Both does not discrimate between religion..

You got to South, Maharshtra and Gujarat..
Muslims as well as people of other religions are well off

As I said it is societal and culutral problem


As mentioned by Developero.. its not the secularism of most Indians in doubt..
its political motivations that keep that peace in a delicate balance.
Rapes, murders dont translate into the non-existence of secularism..
What does is when the state is being run by folks who believe in the superiority of a single religion over all others, and that religion's right to being the sole inheritor of the land.

---------- Post added at 08:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:24 AM ----------



How about trying to prove your point without bringing in Pakistan.. or is that too monstrous a task?

I have found Developero to be an extremely biased and illogical guy for a ThinkTank..
India is a huge huge country

You can never even think about the vastness and diversity of cultures and traditions that we have

Firctions are bound to happen

But do you know wht is commo between us

Tolerance or Unity in Diversity

For the last time stop looking at everything from relilgion point of view
 
It is important for the world that "India" succeeds. Nowhere else in the world has such a nation ever existed. Nowhere else has such extremely diverse people with different cultures, tastes, languages, religions, music, art; ever co-existed. India is the living breathing example that world peace has a chance. It is the ultimate proof that man can live and work together as one......despite their differences.


Yes, i am an Indian....and VERY proud to be one.


WOW MECH, I couldn't have expressed my feelings any better!!! U rock buddy! I won't just "click" THANKS. I seriously thank u for this post which my heart feels, has come straight from your heart!

---------- Post added at 07:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:00 PM ----------

@LOYUS: thanks for a to-the-point post!
 
So much for Congress 'pandering' to Muslims...

Muslims in West Bengal are facing High levels of deprivation and possible discrimination: Abusaleh Shariff | TwoCircles.net

New Delhi: The Left may have been projecting itself as the champion of minority rights in India, the socio-economic situation of the community is really shocking in its bastion – West Bengal. The Left ruled West Bengal is far worse discriminatory towards Muslims than even Modi led Gujarat.

Comparison with Gujarat on different socio-economic parameters reveals the disturbingly abysmal condition of Muslims beneath the veneers of political rhetoric of the Left government in the state. For instance, Muslims’ share in government jobs in West Bengal is just 2.1% which is not even half of their share in govt. jobs in Gujarat (5.4%) and Karnataka (8.5%) -- both BJP ruled states. West Bengal’s is the lowest in the country while Kerala is at top with (10.4%) followed by Andhra Pradesh (8.8%) and Bihar (7.6%).

With just 56% ratio of Muslim workers in the state, West Bengal is way below Gujarat where it is 61%. As for Muslim workers’ percentage in the category of Informal Trade and Self Employment, West Bengal with 11% and 53 % is below than Gujarat (23% and 54%).

While analyzing data and figures related to the socio-economic conditions of Muslims in West Bengal, the chief economist of National Council of Applied Economic Research (NCAER) Abusaleh Shariff categorically pointed out that “relative to other states and other communities Muslim deprivation and their possible discrimination is considerably large in most of the economic, social, human development, education, employment, health and infrastructural facilities.” He was making a presentation on “Relative Development of West Bengal and Socio-Religious Differentials” organized by the Institute of Objective Studies on 22nd March here at the India Islamic Cultural Center.

With as low as just 2.1% share in government jobs, 2% Muslim children educated at matriculation level and just 6% utilization of the Minority Concentrated Districts funds, the condition of the second biggest majority community is any thing but good. Be it the Muslims’ occupation, employment and access to organized sector, deprivation in education, the share of Muslims in poverty, there is not even single socio-economic parameter which could be the reason to cheer about for an average Muslim in the Left ruled state.

Mr. Shariff specifically mentioned that the initially the Left govt. of West Bengal was not providing data about the share of different socio-religious groups in the government sector because it would have exposed their discriminatory treatment of Muslims for last several decades. He had to specifically meet Chief Minister of the state Buddhadeb Bhattacharjy in order to get the data.

Poor utilization of minority funds

In spite of having more than a quarter of its Muslim population (25.2) West Bengal government doesn’t utilize the funds allocated for its minority population. The state has 12 minority concentrated districts out of 90 across the country and the central government releases funds for a variety of centrally sponsored schemes. The “pro-poor” and “pro-people” government spends just 6% of the total funds which is the lowest in the hierarchy of different states across the country.

“Why the state doesn’t want to spend the money of UPA flagship programmes is to any body’s guess but in the process it does an irreparable harm to an average Muslim on the street as this kind of hostile apathetic attitude ensures that the community remains in the acute socio-economic backwardness,” added Mr. Shariff who was also the member secretary of the Prime Minister’s high-powered Sachar Committee.

Education

How can any government be so blatantly discriminatory? Asked Mr. Shariff, while highlighting the fact that even at the primary level 50% of Muslim children are out of school, which is worst than that of even SC/ST whose 54% children get primary education. This is just opposite of Non Muslim and Non SC/ST community where this figure is as high as 80%. If one takes the percentage of Muslim children in matriculation which is 2%, it stands disturbingly lower than that of SC/ST (13%) and abysmal in comparison to that of other Hindu population (38%). 1000 Muslim concentration villages in West Bengal do not have any education institutions.

Poverty among the Muslims in West Bengal is very high and deep, more than the state average. Urban Muslim poverty in the state is even higher than that for SCs/STs

When it comes to the financial share of the community then Muslims hold 29.3% of bank accounts but their share in the amount in the bank is just 9.2 %. On the other hand the share of other majority communities in accounts and amount is 69.8 and 90.1 percentages.

Poor infrastructure for Muslim villages

Overall villages with large Muslim population have poor social and physical infrastructure. 3000 Muslim concentrated villages in the state don’t have any medical facility. Besides, large number of these villages lack post and telegraph facilities. The situation with respect to the availability of bus stop is of particular concern in Muslim concentrated villages of West Bengal.
 
When India stops being secular and starts going the ''hindu jihadi'' way, you guys WILL know. Until then, sort out your own mess.
 
:laugh::laugh:

central means!! goverment U.P.A - GOI


"Think Tank" without brain:lol::lol::lol:

How about posting well-formed English sentences for a change?

And, like I wrote, nobody will do the homework for you. If you are ignorant about your own country's policies, then this is not the place to showcase that ignorance.
 
So much for Congress 'pandering' to Muslims...

Muslims in West Bengal are facing High levels of deprivation and possible discrimination: Abusaleh Shariff | TwoCircles.net

New Delhi: The Left may have been projecting itself as the champion of minority rights in India, the socio-economic situation of the community is really shocking in its bastion – West Bengal. The Left ruled West Bengal is far worse discriminatory towards Muslims than even Modi led Gujarat.

Comparison with Gujarat on different socio-economic parameters reveals the disturbingly abysmal condition of Muslims beneath the veneers of political rhetoric of the Left government in the state. For instance, Muslims’ share in government jobs in West Bengal is just 2.1% which is not even half of their share in govt. jobs in Gujarat (5.4%) and Karnataka (8.5%) -- both BJP ruled states. West Bengal’s is the lowest in the country while Kerala is at top with (10.4%) followed by Andhra Pradesh (8.8%) and Bihar (7.6%).

With just 56% ratio of Muslim workers in the state, West Bengal is way below Gujarat where it is 61%. As for Muslim workers’ percentage in the category of Informal Trade and Self Employment, West Bengal with 11% and 53 % is below than Gujarat (23% and 54%).

While analyzing data and figures related to the socio-economic conditions of Muslims in West Bengal, the chief economist of National Council of Applied Economic Research (NCAER) Abusaleh Shariff categorically pointed out that “relative to other states and other communities Muslim deprivation and their possible discrimination is considerably large in most of the economic, social, human development, education, employment, health and infrastructural facilities.” He was making a presentation on “Relative Development of West Bengal and Socio-Religious Differentials” organized by the Institute of Objective Studies on 22nd March here at the India Islamic Cultural Center.

With as low as just 2.1% share in government jobs, 2% Muslim children educated at matriculation level and just 6% utilization of the Minority Concentrated Districts funds, the condition of the second biggest majority community is any thing but good. Be it the Muslims’ occupation, employment and access to organized sector, deprivation in education, the share of Muslims in poverty, there is not even single socio-economic parameter which could be the reason to cheer about for an average Muslim in the Left ruled state.

Mr. Shariff specifically mentioned that the initially the Left govt. of West Bengal was not providing data about the share of different socio-religious groups in the government sector because it would have exposed their discriminatory treatment of Muslims for last several decades. He had to specifically meet Chief Minister of the state Buddhadeb Bhattacharjy in order to get the data.

Poor utilization of minority funds

In spite of having more than a quarter of its Muslim population (25.2) West Bengal government doesn’t utilize the funds allocated for its minority population. The state has 12 minority concentrated districts out of 90 across the country and the central government releases funds for a variety of centrally sponsored schemes. The “pro-poor” and “pro-people” government spends just 6% of the total funds which is the lowest in the hierarchy of different states across the country.

“Why the state doesn’t want to spend the money of UPA flagship programmes is to any body’s guess but in the process it does an irreparable harm to an average Muslim on the street as this kind of hostile apathetic attitude ensures that the community remains in the acute socio-economic backwardness,” added Mr. Shariff who was also the member secretary of the Prime Minister’s high-powered Sachar Committee.

Education

How can any government be so blatantly discriminatory? Asked Mr. Shariff, while highlighting the fact that even at the primary level 50% of Muslim children are out of school, which is worst than that of even SC/ST whose 54% children get primary education. This is just opposite of Non Muslim and Non SC/ST community where this figure is as high as 80%. If one takes the percentage of Muslim children in matriculation which is 2%, it stands disturbingly lower than that of SC/ST (13%) and abysmal in comparison to that of other Hindu population (38%). 1000 Muslim concentration villages in West Bengal do not have any education institutions.

Poverty among the Muslims in West Bengal is very high and deep, more than the state average. Urban Muslim poverty in the state is even higher than that for SCs/STs

When it comes to the financial share of the community then Muslims hold 29.3% of bank accounts but their share in the amount in the bank is just 9.2 %. On the other hand the share of other majority communities in accounts and amount is 69.8 and 90.1 percentages.

Poor infrastructure for Muslim villages

Overall villages with large Muslim population have poor social and physical infrastructure. 3000 Muslim concentrated villages in the state don’t have any medical facility. Besides, large number of these villages lack post and telegraph facilities. The situation with respect to the availability of bus stop is of particular concern in Muslim concentrated villages of West Bengal.


Precisely my point.. Adn West bengal is my state and nothing to do with Congress
This is called appeasement or pandering

This is votebank politics...
I will give an example
Google Qutubaddin Ansari..The famnous face of Gujarat riots
He fled Gujarat and asked to come to Kolkata by the CPM..
What happened ?
He got no job and had to return to Gujarat
That same Modi;s Gujarat...

Do you know what bothers peole here.. whether Hindu, Muslim ?

It is food , job and development.. Not religion
 
So much for Congress 'pandering' to Muslims...

Muslims in West Bengal are facing High levels of deprivation and possible discrimination: Abusaleh Shariff | TwoCircles.net

New Delhi: The Left may have been projecting itself as the champion of minority rights in India, the socio-economic situation of the community is really shocking in its bastion – West Bengal. The Left ruled West Bengal is far worse discriminatory towards Muslims than even Modi led Gujarat.

Congress is not the left!

Left= Communist party of India:cheesy:
 
So much for Congress 'pandering' to Muslims...

Muslims in West Bengal are facing High levels of deprivation and possible discrimination: Abusaleh Shariff | TwoCircles.net

New Delhi: The Left may have been projecting itself as the champion of minority rights in India, the socio-economic situation of the community is really shocking in its bastion – West Bengal. The Left ruled West Bengal is far worse discriminatory towards Muslims than even Modi led Gujarat.

Comparison with Gujarat on different socio-economic parameters reveals the disturbingly abysmal condition of Muslims beneath the veneers of political rhetoric of the Left government in the state. For instance, Muslims’ share in government jobs in West Bengal is just 2.1% which is not even half of their share in govt. jobs in Gujarat (5.4%) and Karnataka (8.5%) -- both BJP ruled states. West Bengal’s is the lowest in the country while Kerala is at top with (10.4%) followed by Andhra Pradesh (8.8%) and Bihar (7.6%).

With just 56% ratio of Muslim workers in the state, West Bengal is way below Gujarat where it is 61%. As for Muslim workers’ percentage in the category of Informal Trade and Self Employment, West Bengal with 11% and 53 % is below than Gujarat (23% and 54%).

While analyzing data and figures related to the socio-economic conditions of Muslims in West Bengal, the chief economist of National Council of Applied Economic Research (NCAER) Abusaleh Shariff categorically pointed out that “relative to other states and other communities Muslim deprivation and their possible discrimination is considerably large in most of the economic, social, human development, education, employment, health and infrastructural facilities.” He was making a presentation on “Relative Development of West Bengal and Socio-Religious Differentials” organized by the Institute of Objective Studies on 22nd March here at the India Islamic Cultural Center.

With as low as just 2.1% share in government jobs, 2% Muslim children educated at matriculation level and just 6% utilization of the Minority Concentrated Districts funds, the condition of the second biggest majority community is any thing but good. Be it the Muslims’ occupation, employment and access to organized sector, deprivation in education, the share of Muslims in poverty, there is not even single socio-economic parameter which could be the reason to cheer about for an average Muslim in the Left ruled state.

Mr. Shariff specifically mentioned that the initially the Left govt. of West Bengal was not providing data about the share of different socio-religious groups in the government sector because it would have exposed their discriminatory treatment of Muslims for last several decades. He had to specifically meet Chief Minister of the state Buddhadeb Bhattacharjy in order to get the data.

Poor utilization of minority funds

In spite of having more than a quarter of its Muslim population (25.2) West Bengal government doesn’t utilize the funds allocated for its minority population. The state has 12 minority concentrated districts out of 90 across the country and the central government releases funds for a variety of centrally sponsored schemes. The “pro-poor” and “pro-people” government spends just 6% of the total funds which is the lowest in the hierarchy of different states across the country.

“Why the state doesn’t want to spend the money of UPA flagship programmes is to any body’s guess but in the process it does an irreparable harm to an average Muslim on the street as this kind of hostile apathetic attitude ensures that the community remains in the acute socio-economic backwardness,” added Mr. Shariff who was also the member secretary of the Prime Minister’s high-powered Sachar Committee.

Education

How can any government be so blatantly discriminatory? Asked Mr. Shariff, while highlighting the fact that even at the primary level 50% of Muslim children are out of school, which is worst than that of even SC/ST whose 54% children get primary education. This is just opposite of Non Muslim and Non SC/ST community where this figure is as high as 80%. If one takes the percentage of Muslim children in matriculation which is 2%, it stands disturbingly lower than that of SC/ST (13%) and abysmal in comparison to that of other Hindu population (38%). 1000 Muslim concentration villages in West Bengal do not have any education institutions.

Poverty among the Muslims in West Bengal is very high and deep, more than the state average. Urban Muslim poverty in the state is even higher than that for SCs/STs

When it comes to the financial share of the community then Muslims hold 29.3% of bank accounts but their share in the amount in the bank is just 9.2 %. On the other hand the share of other majority communities in accounts and amount is 69.8 and 90.1 percentages.

Poor infrastructure for Muslim villages

Overall villages with large Muslim population have poor social and physical infrastructure. 3000 Muslim concentrated villages in the state don’t have any medical facility. Besides, large number of these villages lack post and telegraph facilities. The situation with respect to the availability of bus stop is of particular concern in Muslim concentrated villages of West Bengal.

@developereo: u have never even seen one picture of West Bengal, that i am sure of! In WB, there's just one altercation going on... LAW VS MAOISTS!!! regarding poverty... 30 years of Communist rule, and whole Bengal is extremely poor!!! and poverty has no religion!!!

I will tell u a little secret: here in India, no one comes to your house and gives u a Govt job!!! u need to appear in the competitions and clear them... mostly exams are conducted by UPSC or state public service commissions, which are almost impartial!!! otherwise every one in India KNOWS someone!!! so if muslims have low participation in jobs, its because they have low participation in the exams!!! and if Hindus stop participating in these competitions, even their percentage will come down!! and imagine, all of this is in spite of reservation every where!!!!

---------- Post added at 07:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:11 PM ----------

Congress is not the left!

Left= Communist party of India:cheesy:

aah! u challenged the knowledge of the Think-Tank!!!!:cheesy:
 
Whether it's central or regional is irrelevant.

I won't do your homework for you. I suggest you educate yourself about your own country.

You trying to teach me about my country !!!!

I have been to the richest place of the country and I have lived among the poorest people of this country !!!

You can call me anything but never ever say that I do not know my country !!!
 
i just realised, developereo: u urself proved in ur own post that BJP ruled states have a better representation of Muslims in Govt jobs!!! (which by the way I am unhappy with, because, its nothing when compared to their share in the population!)

now henceforth, NEVER EVER, accuse BJP of being anti-minority.. OKAY???????
 
What amazes me is people with biased mentality and hatred for a particular set of people become thinktank so easily here ?

I think the whole crux lies in the genesis of a particular nation..
You upbringing.. your education follows that

But then
We are humans.. we have to justify our existence
Else we become irrelevant..
It would have been better if he was not a ThinkTank..

They remind me of people and their lengthy discourses when I used to prepare for CAT
which Developero is def not
 
How about posting well-formed English sentences for a change?

And, like I wrote, nobody will do the homework for you. If you are ignorant about your own country's policies, then this is not the place to showcase that ignorance.

whatsoever !!!!

no one can challenge ur Knowledge.

"Think Tank"
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