Not so secular India

[nForce]

You have no idea how arguments work, do you?

It's completely irrelevant whether Pakistan is secular or not. Pakistan is not claiming to be secular. Bharat, on the other hand, is.

it aint that simplistic ...

 

[xTra]

Its not enough. Its the same in pakistan govn says they give rights to minorities. But when some idiots abuse minorities and the state has failed to protect them and you guys come here on the forum and rightly condemn pakistan and say we are not secular I accept the criticism. So in the same way jsut accept that you pay lip servise to secularism but in fact in india just like pakistan its a myth

Sorry, we can't match you, you have Good Taliban, we don't have any, you are Islamic Republic, while we are a weak Secular country.

Also this thread is about Secular India, not about Pakistan, so cut the crap and please be on Topic, you have got paid premium membershp doesn't mean you can go offtopic.

---------- Post added at 12:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:31 AM ----------

You have no idea how arguments work, do you?

It's completely irrelevant whether Pakistan is secular or not. Pakistan is not claiming to be secular. Bharat, on the other hand, is.

Thats the point when you yourself are not secular, how can you lecture us on secularism.

 

[SMC]

it aint that simplistic ...

You mean it's not that simple? It really is. Whether or not Pakistan is secular is completely irrelevant. For instance, if someone lives in a democracy, does that mean they cannot talk about living in a dictatorship, just because they haven't lived in a dictatorship, and vice versa? Pakistan doesn't call itself secular, hence it's totally irrelevant whether it is secular or it is not secular.

---------- Post added at 02:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:03 PM ----------

Thats the point when you yourself are not secular, how can you lecture us on secularism.

Nobody's lecturing you on secularism.

 

[lem34]

Sorry, we can't match you, you have Good Taliban, we don't have any, you are Islamic Republic, while we are a weak Secular country.

Also this thread is about Secular India, not about Pakistan, so cut the crap and please be on Topic, you have got paid premium membershp doesn't mean you can go offtopic.

India is not secular. Can you guys without bringing pakistan into it come out with any valid arguments to say it is. I am fed up of you lot telling us about your democracy and secularism exists in india when it dont speak .... come on you "pack" some logic..

 

[xTra]

an opiate of the masses. an opiate that soothes the collective concience of the indian middle classes. The west says that india has democracy and china doesnt. As far as am concerned chinese have been more succesfull in eliminating poverty the biggest evil that our neighbourhood suffers from. Ask a starving indian pakistani if they want democracy or food on table

any ways back on topic sparky is right on th ecount of 3

1 2 3 india is not secular. and if we accept that there can be no democracy lol

Sorry, you are as always, going off topic, this thread is about secularism in India not about Pakistan China Friendship, post something on topic or go to sleep.

 

[RockyX]

Hope our country becomes HINDU RASTRA. Pakistan become Islamic country on day 1 and after than Hindu population declined from 22% to 1% in 65 years but we followed secularism and Muslim population increased from 9% to 14%. It's better to become HINDU country as few people already saying we are not secular. Hope our government does something.

 

[SMC]

Hope our country becomes HINDU RASTRA. Pakistan become Islamic country on day 1 and after than Hindu population declined from 22% to 1% but we followed secularism. It's better to become HINDU country. Hope our government does something.

You've no idea what you're talking about. I can go on about that in another thread. Please stick to the topic.

Secular India seems to be faltering

The question raised is why, even after the intervention by the Supreme Court, have most of the guilty remained unpunished following the Gujarat pogrom in 2002
By Kuldip Nayar, Special to Gulf News
Published: 00:00 November 12, 2011


Massacres recede into history. But their memory haunts us. A strain of music, a candle light in the wilderness or a sad face re-enacts the tragedies once again. If concrete evidence emerges, it leaves us forlorn and helpless.

Two instances this week have brought back before me the killings in Gujarat and Delhi. Nadeem Saiyed, a key witness, was murdered in a street at Ahmedabad. Some thousands held a candle light vigil at India Gate to commemorate the memory of the 3,000 Sikhs killed in Delhi alone. Both are disconnected, but in a way they are not because both tell a sordid story of government's hand in the killings of Muslims in Gujarat and the Sikhs in Delhi. Records have been destroyed, FIRs burnt and till today the government continues to support the perpetrators of loot, murder and rape.

Another witness, Sanjeev Rajendra Bhatt, a senior police officer, also wants more security for his family and himself but there is no response. Bhatt had the courage to say in the open that he was present at the official meeting where Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi said to let the Hindus "vent their anger" during the clashes and that he wanted Muslims to be "taught a lesson." Hats off to Gujarat IPS Association for standing by Bhatt. In a letter to the chairman of the Special Investigation Team, Bhatt has said: "…Despite the passage of eight months, the government of Gujarat continues to play truant with respect to my security concerns…"

The question that has been posed again and again is that even after the intervention by the Supreme Court, the guilty have remained unpunished since 2002 after the Gujarat pogrom. The irony is that L.K. Advani's rath yatra (chariot rally), ostensibly to highlight corruption, was in Gujarat when Nadeem was murdered. I wish the rally could have been to bring the culprits of the 2002 massacre to book. Instead Advani praised the chief minister for his "excellent governance."


Mob rule

When I was at the candle-light vigil, I came face to face with Nirpreet Kaur. She was 16 years on November 2, 1984, when the mob came for her father, Nirmal Singh. The gurdwara next to their house in south Delhi's Raj Nagar had been set ablaze and a mob of about 450 was looking for more Sikhs to butcher. The Sikhs of Raj Nagar decided to confront the mob.

An hour later, Nirpreet recalled, a Youth Congress leader came to her father requesting him to "settle the matter." A day earlier, when violence against Sikhs broke out following the assassination of prime minister Indira Gandhi by her two Sikhs bodyguards, the youth leader had sworn to the Sikhs that they would be protected from violence. The youth leader went straight to the mob and handed Nirmal Singh over.

The oldest of three siblings, Nirpreet, ran to the mob but could only watch helplessly as her father was tied up and set ablaze. The family then fled to safety. When they returned to collect his ashes for Nirmal Singh's last rites, the area had been swept clean.

Nirpreet joined the Khalistan movement to avenge the brutal killing of her father. Nirpreet married a militant in November 1985. Twelve days after her wedding, the Delhi Police picked up her husband. He was never heard of again. Nirpreet then pregnant with her son was declared an absconder. In December 1986, Nirpreet's mother, Sampooran Kaur, was sentenced to three years in Delhi's high-security Tihar jail for "sheltering a terrorist."

Nirpreet's tale of woes is not different from what has happened to Zakia Jafri whose husband was cut into pieces at their residence in Ahmedabad and burnt in a bonfire. He was a former Congress MP. Even his contacts and calls to New Delhi when a Hindu mob was surrounding his residence brought him no help. Many people from the area had taken refuge at Jafri's house. They too were burnt alive. The Supreme Court has sent her case to the trial court for disposal.

This is not fair. The court could have said something on the role of the chief minister. At least, Bhatt's affidavit against Modi required some comment because he remains suspended from service. The story of Malegaon blasts is tragic. It once again shows the bias of authorities against Muslims whenever a bomb blast takes place. None of the suspects were released after they were wrongly jailed. A special Maharashtra Control of Organised Crime Act (MCOCA) last week granted bail to all the nine accused in the 2006 Malegaon blasts case after the National Investigation Agency (NIA) said it had no objection to any of their bail pleas.

Coming down heavily on the police, the Supreme Court has expressed its serious concern over the fake encounters saying "tolerance of police atrocities would amount to acceptance of systemic subversion and erosion of the rule of law."

Indeed, India is a pluralistic society. But it has a long way to go before it can be considered "secular", a word written within the preamble of the constitution. At present the government seems to be faltering.

Kuldip Nayar is a former Indian High Commissioner to the United Kingdom and a former Rajya Sabha member.

 

[mahabharath]

secularism doesnt exist in India. Pakistan separation is justified

We all agree with you

kush?

 

[xTra]

India is not secular. Can you guys without bringing pakistan into it come out with any valid arguments to say it is. I am fed up of you lot telling us about your democracy and secularism exists in india when it dont speak .... come on you "pack" some logic..

Sorry dear I am Guy not Guys, I don't post in pack.

I once again ask you, what do you know about secularism, please enlighten us and don't post defination from Wiki, it sucks.

 

[RockyX]

You've no idea what you're talking about. I can go on about that in another thread. Please stick to the topic.

I read Gujarat related thread 1,000 times. I think this is thread no. 1,000 about Gujarat. A riot happened 10 years back in which both community died. I am tired reading same thing 100 times.

It's better to become HINDU Rashtra as it will be give lots of energy to Hindu nationalist and no one will say we are not Secular.

 

[xTra]

You mean it's not that simple? It really is. Whether or not Pakistan is secular is completely irrelevant. For instance, if someone lives in a democracy, does that mean they cannot talk about living in a dictatorship, just because they haven't lived in a dictatorship, and vice versa? Pakistan doesn't call itself secular, hence it's totally irrelevant whether it is secular or it is not secular.

---------- Post added at 02:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:03 PM ----------



Nobody's lecturing you on secularism.

I think Aryan is doing so and he was missing Thank Giving services from Superkaif and Billal, good you came to his rescue.

 

[SMC]

^ No he's not. He's simply stating that bharat is a fake secular state with proof to back it up.

 

[xTra]

You've no idea what you're talking about. I can go on about that in another thread. Please stick to the topic.

What about Najam Sethi, do you follow him or you follow only Kuldip Nayyer.

---------- Post added at 12:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:42 AM ----------

^ No he's not. He's simply stating that bharat is a fake secular state with proof to back it up.

I hope so, but how would you know what Secular Stands for when you youself live in a Islamic republic of Pakistan.

Well Wiki is not the answer, try something new.

 

[SMC]

I hope so, but how would you know what Secular Stands for when you youself live in a Islamic republic of Pakistan.

Well Wiki is not the answer, try something new.

Were you born this way? Having no idea how to make logical arguments? Or are you just trolling? I sincerely hope it's the latter, because if it's the former, you should immediately retire from this forum and go back to Bharat Rakshak.

 

[xTra]

Were you born this way? Having no idea how to make logical arguments? Or are you just trolling? I sincerely hope it's the latter, because if it's the former, you should immediately retire from this forum and go back to Bharat Rakshak.

I was born the same way as you were.

I am not here by your invitation, if you don't like me you can retire and join some other pakistani forum or may joined newly started Chinese forum.