NorthropGrumman Labours On With Hawkeye Pitch To Indian Navy

[Veer]

Sunday, February 21, 2010
NorthropGrumman Labours On With Hawkeye Pitch To Indian Navy

The folks at Northrop Grumman have been talking to the Indian Navy since 2004 about the Hawkeye as a viable sea-going airborne early warning and control asset. And after an abortive (and rather idiotic) attempt to convince the Indian Navy that a pair of Hawkeyes could easily operate off the INS Vikramaditya's angled deck, the company finally settled down a couple of years ago to pitching the aircraft strongly as a shore-based platform.

It turns out, NG's attempt to elbow its way onto the Vikramaditya, had serious safety implications. In July 2009, in what must seriously be exasperating the company's India campaigners, they obtained clearance from the US government to hawk the E-2D Advanced Hawkeye to India. A fair move, and one that at least pre-empted an Indian query on why NG was still offering the old E-2C.

NG's manager (intl biz) Tom Trudell says, "We briefed the Indian Navy again this year at a high technical level on the E-2D. We've been carrying out detailed technical briefs ever since we received authorisation from the US government to offer the E-2D to the Indian Navy. The technical discussions are now over. We are waiting for guidance from the Indian Navy."

Northrop Grumman is also, incidentally, trying to convince the Indian government to consider a catapult launch system on its second indigenous aircraft carrier. Smart. "A catapult equipped ship is most effective for projecting power," Trudell submits.

 

[jha]

the second carrier imo is already supposed to be catapult based....it may be steam one or, emal depending on US help in the matter...
an HAWKEYE will nonetheless a great piece for NAVY just like PHALCON is for AF.

feel free to disagree

 

[DMLA]

Unless IN goes for larger AC's in future, these birds make no sense IMHO. A phalcon version for land based operations will provide much better operational footprint!

E-2: Range ~ 2600 km
Emb-145: Range ~ 2400 km
Phalcon A-50: Range ~ 5000+ km

 

[shchinese]

when you can't build anything on your own, you seek foreign sources for such toys.

 

[attitude]

when you can't build anything on your own, you seek foreign sources for such toys.

and you can copy all the toys at least we dont copy

 

[sancho]

Unless IN goes for larger AC's in future, these birds make no sense IMHO. A phalcon version for land based operations will provide much better operational footprint!

E-2: Range ~ 2600 km
Emb-145: Range ~ 2400 km
Phalcon A-50: Range ~ 5000+ km

I agree with you! We already have similar or better land based platforms that could be cheaper and offer more commonality, E-2D makes only sense for CATOBAR carriers.

But how about a different apporach, that can be used as land based as well as carrier based AEW for IN?

The V-22 Osprey AEW:

Ferry range with auxillary fuel tanks: 3500Km (with the higher load of the radar it should be still at least similar to the E-2)
Maximum speed: 565 Km/h (E-2: 604 Km/h)
Service ceilling: 7925 m (E-2: 9300m)

So in all key specs the V22 is comparable to the E-2, but the most important advantage will be, it can be used on our STOBAR carriers, instead of Ka 31 too!

Ferry range with auxillary fuel tanks: 3500Km (Ka 31: 600 Km)
Maximum speed: 565 Km/h (Ka 31: 250 Km/h)
Service ceilling: 7925 m (Ka 31: 3500m)

So if we want another AEW platform, with should go for one that offers the most advantages, that our present can't offer right?

The Osprey as a simple transport helicopter replacement is imo not a good choice, because of the high costs compared to helicopters. But as a specialised aircraft for AEW, or even ASW in the navy, it offer clear advantages over helicopters, with nearly as good performance as comparable fixed wing aircrafts.

 

[DMLA]

Wasn't this on offer to the british for their new QE class and eventually lost out? I have always felt that they shoulld be considered seriously. Having said that, I have heard a lot of bad things about the osprey's in general (specifically huge operational costs)! I guess IN would do well to look at these only after the design of the next carrier is decided (which afaik is still not on drawing board!)

 

[Dash]

Wasn't this on offer to the british for their new QE class and eventually lost out? I have always felt that they shoulld be considered seriously. Having said that, I have heard a lot of bad things about the osprey's in general (specifically huge operational costs)! I guess IN would do well to look at these only after the design of the next carrier is decided (which afaik is still not on drawing board!)

I think the design work on second carrier will be nearing complition. Can anyone clarify this with some source?.

 

[Veer]

I think the design work on second carrier will be nearing complition. Can anyone clarify this with some source?.

First indigenous aircraft carrier to be launched next year: Navy chief
Sandeep Unnithan

New Delhi, December 2, 2009
India's first indigenous aircraft carrier, the IAC, will be launched next year and commissioned in 2014, navy chief Admiral Nirmal Verma said at his maiden navy week press conference on Wednesday.

Admiral Verma said price negotiations for aircraft carrier Vikramaditya (formerly known as Admiral Gorshkov) were in their fourth and final stages but would not like to guess when the issue over the cost escalation would be decided.

He hinted that the second aircraft carrier (IAC-2) which is to follow will be of a different type. "We are re-looking at the design. It won't be a copy of what we have today," Verma said.

The keel of the 40,000 ton IAC was laid down by Defence Minister A.K. Antony at the Cochin shipyard in February this year. The first two MiG-29Ks are to be shipped from Russia in completely knocked down condition. It is to be the primary carrier-borne fighter aircraft for both the Vikramaditya and the IAC.

Verma said he had been assured by the DRDO that the LCA's naval variant would be ready for carrier trials by 2013 and for deployment on the Gorshkov/Vikramaditya as well as the IAC. He said the navy was doing a concept study 'for more capable carrier-borne aircraft' for the IAC-2.

Concepts currently being examined by the Directorate of Naval Design for the IAC-2 are for a conventionally powered carrier displacing over 50,000 tons and equipped with steam catapults (rather than the ski-jump on the Gorshkov/Vikramaditya and the IAC) to launch fourth generation aircraft.


Officials said that the navy's sole aircraft carrier, the INS Viraat which completes 50 years of service this year is due for another inspection by 2013 to assess the life remaining in the hull.

The former HMS Hermes was acquired from Britain in 1987 and was to serve only for five years after which she would be replaced by two indigenous aircraft carriers in the early 1990s. However, a decade-long delays in the IAC programme meant that the carrier had to serve for another two decades.

 

[Dark Angel]

The US government has cleared yet another high technology system for India, the "futuristic" shipboard Hawkeye E-2D aircraft for Airborne Early Warning (AEW) and battle management.

The clearance has been described by diplomatic sources as a fallout of the "successful" visit of Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and the signing of the End User Monitoring Agreement (EUMA) of military equipment being supplied or sold by the US to India.

Like the Boeing P 8I Maritime Multi-mission Aircraft (MMA), of which the Indian Navy has already ordered eight aircraft, the Hawkeye E-2D is the very latest and is yet to be delivered to the US Navy.

India is the second country after the UAE to be cleared by the US State and Defense Departments for sale of this sophisticated system. The US Navy has sanctioned $432 million for trials of the aircraft, currently underway at the Naval Air Station Patuxent River in Maryland. The Naval Systems Command (NAVAIR) based there provides engineering and testing support for new naval systems and weapons.

The Hawkeye E-2D has been under the US government's consideration for India for some time. In fact, in 2007, Pentagon sources in Washington had told this writer that the aircraft was being cleared, but apparently the previous version, Hawkeve E-2C, was eventually offered to which the Indian Navy said "No" in informal discussions.

The aircraft is being manufactured by Northrop Grumman, a leading US player in Aerospace, Warships, Missiles, Combat Radars and Electronic Warfare systems.

Northrop Grumman's programme Manager for International Business Development Tom C. Trudell told India Strategic magazine that the aircraft has "just been cleared by the US government for India" and that a presentation was made to the Indian Navy in August in New Delhi.

Indian Navy officers had witnessed the capabilities of the Hawkeye E-2C but told the US officials that as the equipment it would buy would be used for years, it must be the best and the latest with future capability insertion potential


cont...

US clears Hawkeye E-2D aircraft for India- Hindustan Times

 

[Dark Angel]

India Strategic quotes unnamed Indian officials as saying that the technology onboard the Hawkeye E-2D is "very tempting" and that although neither the Gorshkov aircraft carrier which India is buying from Russia nor India's first aircraft carrier indigenously being built would be able to accommodate this aircraft, India's future aircraft carriers could be a little bigger.



"By the time this aircraft comes, and by the time the Indian Navy gets used to it from initial shore-based operations, plans for two more aircraft carriers could be amended to house this system."

There have been no tenders of RfPs yet for the Hawkeye E-2D, but then companies from worldwide present their wares to various countries either by themselves and at their own cost, or make offerings in response to Request for Information (RfI) which are floated in routine by all the armed forces to know what is available in terms of newer generation of systems.

Future aircraft carriers of the Indian Navy would also have to be equipped with catapult launching systems, for which it is already looking around. India's second and third aircraft carriers should have this facility along with lifts and adequate open area for what is called free deck takeoff.

The Mig 29Ks that the Indian Navy is buying for Gorshkov, will be launched by a ski ramp.

Tip to tip, the Hawkeye is a bigger aircraft than the Mig 29.

Trudell said that although Northrop Grumman had been allowed to make presentations to the Indian Navy, its sale would have to be direct between the Indian and US government under the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) programme. There are many systems on board, developed for US Navy, which only the US government can clear for transfer to other countries.

The US Navy has initially ordered five Hawkeye E-2Ds under a Low Rate Initial Production (LRIP) programme, and the first aircraft should be delivered to the US Navy in 2011.

India can get the aircraft within three years of a contract being signed, said Trudell

 

[al-hind]

when you can't build anything on your own, you seek foreign sources for such toys.

shhchinese...shhh

 

[mrwarrior006]

@shchinese

when you can't build anything on your own, you seek foreign sources for such toys.

look who is talkin
wy do u keep copying foreign products when u cant build anything on ur own

 

[sancho]

Wasn't this on offer to the british for their new QE class and eventually lost out? I have always felt that they shoulld be considered seriously. Having said that, I have heard a lot of bad things about the osprey's in general (specifically huge operational costs)! I guess IN would do well to look at these only after the design of the next carrier is decided (which afaik is still not on drawing board!)

Yes you are right! Compared to the AW101 Merlin AEW helicopters that the British carriers will use, the costs are higher. So for their both planed carriers it won't be worth it, because they will use the Merlins, or NH90s as ASW helicopter anyway.
India instead could use the V-22 AEWs on all 4-5 carriers and as the shore based AEWs that IN seems to want too. So for us the cost and the big increase of capabilities could be worth it.

 

[Cityboy]

shchinese is a brand ambassador for off topic copy pasted TROLL post in pdf...