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North Korea US Tension - News & Discussion

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Here's the problem with this; the other map that was posted earlier shows the entire east coast of the US to part of the mid-west within the outer reach of one of those Dingdongs, and then this one shows the far 1/3 of the west coast in range. Which one is it? Both? Highly doubtful. Intercontinental missiles with accurate, suborbital trajectory and with large enough warheads or multiple warheads to make it through possible atmospheric breakup and still be effective upon impact, with a strong enough core of proper, solid fuel to not only accurately get to peak height, but to travel it at an appropriate speed so it's not easily intercepted and destroyed are very difficult to develop, even by superpowers which has taken them decades to do. Then there is also the need for the scientific knowledge and understanding of space and atmospheric conditions and their factors to effectively understand successful, ballistic missile trajectories. Not only do they need the proper guidance, they need to be able to cope with the harsh, travel conditions and the way they change since they have to get high enough to enter space, adjust for earth's rotation, loss of gravity, temperature & climate changes then make the appropriate corrections to re-enter earth's atmosphere without breaking up from burning up and then make it to targeted terra earth and ultimately be effective. This is one of the most difficult, weapon's technology systems to develop and implement that not only are these Dingdongs incapable of, they're not even close to being nuclear tipped. Nothing but hype and propaganda for all the reasons we know. That's why it's hard to believe this stuff, TBH. Just sayin'. The US is just as guilty in creating this hype, or at least going along with it with a wink or two........:-)


Hard to tell which one of these bubble-heads is worst than the other. One is a pathological liar with absolutely no diplomatic or political experience and has been awarded the job of the most important person in the world and so far has embarrassingly stumbled through it with unprecedented failures of campaign promises and has access to the red button............while the other is a child, who grew up under the family teachings of a harsh, dictatorship and the control of power over an entire people with the obsession of developing the world's worst weapons capable of evaporating millions of humans in a few minutes. Both are frighteningly crazy in their own, special way. God help us all.

As long as the North Korean regime is in place, that means that there is no American presence in the Chinese - Korean border and that also means that the buffer works, that's all the Chinese care about and I would predict that if war breaks out and North Korea gets invaded, the Chinese will cross the border and establish a de facto buffer zone under their control.

Completely agree with that. If Trump has people next to him that are not only smart enough, but influential enough to advise him not to make the wrong decisions that could potentially bring the world to an end, I hope they can do it. Best thing IMO is to work out a plan with China (while at the same time keep Russia in the loop) and get Kim to end his weapon's fetish without any war. China is under a lot of pressure but has been forced under a lot more by what Trump has already asked it to do. If they don't find a way to neutralize Kim without upsetting him enough to go suicidal and attempt killing millions of South & North Koreans, then Trump will have no choice but to do it since he's threatened it and can't back away from it and look like a Chump. It's a very flammable situation for all parties concerned.
 
Completely agree with that. If Trump has people next to him that are not only smart enough, but influential enough to advise him not to make the wrong decisions that could potentially bring the world to an end, I hope they can do it. Best thing IMO is to work out a plan with China (while at the same time keep Russia in the loop) and get Kim to end his weapon's fetish without any war. China is under a lot of pressure but has been forced under a lot more by what Trump has already asked it to do. If they don't find a way to neutralize Kim without upsetting him enough to go suicidal and attempt killing millions of South & North Koreans, then Trump will have no choice but to do it since he's threatened it and can't back away from it and look like a Chump. It's a very flammable situation for all parties concerned.

I absolutely agree with that habibi, China has to be part of the solution, otherwise, if war breaks out, it will ended up been also a war with China.

I'm not sure about Trump's advisers, in the end, he picked up warmonger neocons (MacMasters, Mattis, etc), so.......... what could possibly go wrong?
 
We're getting closer to a real crisis with North Korea, retired US Army colonel says

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/apos-getting-closer-real-crisis-214201344.html

The United States is trying hard to get China to engage in talks with North Korea, but that probably won't happen until North Korea agrees to suspend its nuclear program, retired U.S. Army Colonel Jack Jacobs told CNBC on Monday.

"We're getting closer and closer to a real crisis and that's because for decades we ignored the problem," the Medal of Honor recipient said in an interview with " Closing Bell ."

On Monday, Vice President Mike Pence said the "era of strategic patience" with North Korea was over.

"Just in the past two weeks, the world witnessed the strength and resolve of our new president in actions taken in Syria and Afghanistan," Pence said. "North Korea would do well not to test his resolve or the strength of the armed forces of the United States in this region."

Tensions have been escalating following repeated North Korean missile tests and concerns that it may soon conduct a sixth nuclear bomb test in defiance of U.N. sanctions.

Former Defense Secretary William Cohen, meanwhile, thinks China is dragging its feet when it comes negotiating with North Korea. He said the country doesn't want to see a unified Korea with military presence on its border.

However, "that's something that you can sit down and work out if the Chinese are willing to put the kind of pressure that needs to be put on the North Koreans," he told "Closing Bell."

Cohen thinks it is in China's long-term interest to have a unified, demilitarized Korea, especially with South Korea being one of China's biggest trading partners.

That said, he doesn't see that happening in the short term.

"The North Korean regime is a criminal enterprise. They are extortionists. They are saying feed me, fuel me, employ me before I test again or kill again," he said.

"That has reached a point where this administration has said, 'We're not going to play that game anymore,' and so we're asking China to really have an impact in terms of what food and fuel and employment their providing to the North Koreans," he added.

Jacobs agreed that unification may be a long-term outcome but said the first step needs to be getting rid of the nuclear weapons.

"We have to remember the North Korean government is a continuing criminal enterprise. The thing they fear the most is not being in power. China is very much concerned with destabilization of Korean peninsula. That comes with the North Korean's government falling to pieces under pressure from anybody."

—Reuters contributed to this report.
 
The deployment of Carl Vinson Carrier Strike Group has been extended by a month so the CSG can conduct presence operations off the coast of Korea, the commander of the strike group said late Tuesday in a message to his crew.

“Our deployment has been extended 30 days to provide a persistent presence in the waters off the Korean Peninsula,” wrote Rear Adm. Jim Kilby on the wall of the USS Carl Vinson (CVN-70) Facebook page.
“Our mission is to reassure allies and our partners of our steadfast commitment to the Indo-Asia-Pacific region. We will continue to be the centerpiece of visible maritime deterrence, providing our national command authority with flexible deterrent options, all domain access, and a visible forward presence.”

A defense official told USNI News on Tuesday the strike group could be off of Korea by sometime next week.

Navy Times first reported Kilby’s notice on the extension late Tuesday.

The CSG completed an abbreviated exercise schedule off the coast of Western Australia ahead of an anticipated transit through the South China Sea earlier this week.

“The Strike Group was able to complete a curtailed period of previously scheduled training with Australia in international waters off the northwest coast of Australia,” U.S. Pacific Command spokesman Cmdr. David Benham told USNI News on Tuesday.
“The Carl Vinson Strike Group is heading north to the Western Pacific as a prudent measure.”

On April 8, PACOM commander Adm. Harry Harris ordered the strike group to skip a previously planned port call in Fremantle, Australia and accelerate at sea training with the Royal Australian Navy off of the western coast of the country to get the strike group to the vicinity of Korea faster.

A brief press statement issued as the ship left Singapore announced the cancellation of the port visit but did not include mention of the training with the RAN. The notice sparked press stories the CSG was steaming without delay to Korea assuming the move was to deter an anticipated North Korean missile or nuclear weapons test.

Pentagon leaders denied that was the case last week.

“There’s not a specific demand signal or specific reason we’re sending her up there. She’s stationed in the Western Pacific for a reason,” Secretary of Defense James Mattis told reporters on April 11 in an attempt to clarify previous statements.
“She operates freely up and down the Pacific and she’s on her way up there because that’s where we thought it was most prudent to have her at this time.”

However, Mattis misspoke and said the training component of the CSG’s exercise with the RAN was canceled, which Pentagon officials corrected in a statement to USNI News shortly after Mattis’ remarks.

Additional unclear statements from the White House compounded the misconception the Vinson CSG was headed directly to the peninsula.

In an interview with Fox Business Network on April 12, President Donald Trump said the U.S. was, “sending an armada [to Korea]. Very powerful. We have submarines, very powerful, far more powerful than the aircraft carrier, that I can tell you.”

While the move of Vinson north has prompted additional attention, U.S. carriers off of Korea are not rare during a Western Pacific deployment.

The strike group has already operated off the Korean peninsula last month as part of the U.S.-South Korean Operation Foal Eagle 2017 exercise.

The Vinson Strike Group deployment is being overseen by U.S. Third Fleet based in San Diego, Calif. as a test of the Navy’s ability to command and control forces in the Western Pacific, reported USNI News earlier this year.

https://news.usni.org/2017/04/19/carl-vinson-carrier-strike-group-deployment-extended

 
‘Ready to fight & win’: US marines deployed to Australia amid N. Korean ‘nuclear threat’
Published time: 18 Apr, 2017 14:18

https://www.rt.com/news/385172-us-marines-darwin-pyongyang/

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US Marines have begun to touch down in Darwin, in Australia's tropical north, as the first of some 1,250 “stand ready to fight” against North Korea amid warnings that Pyongyang's nuclear weapons program is a “serious threat” to Canberra.

The deployment will see the largest US aircraft contingent to Australia in peacetime history, Reuters reports, adding that the 25-year annual deployment program was launched by former US President Barack Obama back in 2011 as part of America's ‘pivot’ to Asia. During the six-month deployment, US Marines will conduct exercises with Australian troops and will also visit Chinese forces.

‘Demonic destiny’: Long history of US threats to N. Korea
The US Marines’ arrival comes as Australia’s Foreign Minister Julie Bishop voiced mounting concerns over North Korea’s nuclear activities. Pyongyang is striving for nuclear weapons and “has a clear ambition to develop an intercontinental ballistic missile capable of carrying a nuclear payload as far as the US,” Bishop said according to the ABC.

“That would mean Australia would be in reach so unless it is prevented from doing so, it will be a serious threat to the peace and stability of our region, and that is unacceptable,” she added.

North Korea launched a failed missile test on Sunday, while also warning Washington against taking military action against it. Pyongyang’s military pledged to “ruthlessly ravage” the US if the American aircraft carrier group ‘USS Carl Vinson’, currently on its way to the region, takes aggressive action. In Darwin, Marine commander Lieutenant-Colonel Brian Middleton said the 13 aircraft, including tilt-rotor Ospreys, Super Cobra helicopters and Huey helicopters, triple the number of aircraft in past deployments, signaling a “tangible kind of sign of our commitment to the region and to this partnership.”

“Regardless, I think it is just a good move anytime we can strengthen the long-standing partnership and alliance between our two countries. We stand ready to fight and win the night always,” he noted, as cited by Reuters. “I think that the commitment that we've taken to put a task force here with a conversation to get larger over the years says that we do think this is an important region.”

China’s Foreign Minister warned last week that an armed conflict with North Korea may break out “at any moment,” urging Washington and Pyongyang to tone down their hawkish rhetoric and realize the price to pay for both sides if a new Korean War were to start.

The warning came amid US military drills near the Korean Peninsula and the deployment of the American THAAD anti-missile system to South Korea. While US President Donald Trump is threatening to “take care” of the North Korean “problem,” Pyongyang says it is ready to repel any military action.

Russia warns US against ‘Syria-style’ actions in N. Korea
China, North Korea’s close ally and main trading partner, does not welcome Pyongyang's nuclear program, but advocates finding a political solution to the crisis. Russia, which also shares a land border with the reclusive state, expressed deep concern over the mounting tensions on the Korean Peninsula.

US ‘runs out of patience’

US Vice President Mike Pence recently announced the “end of strategic patience”towards Pyongyang, adding that “all options are on the table.”

On Thursday, US intelligence officials told NBC that the US has sent two destroyers capable of launching Tomahawk cruise missiles in the region, with one just 300 miles (some 480km) from the North Korean nuclear test site. American long-range bombers have also been positioned in Guam to hit North Korean targets.

North Korea warned on Tuesday it would retaliate “if the US dares opt for a military action” or any other type of aggression with all means available.

The North Korean General Staff said in a statement carried by the country’s KCNA news agency that US deployment of “huge nuclear strategic assets” to the Korean Peninsula is pushing the region to “a dangerous situation in which a thermo-nuclear war may break out any moment.”

On Monday, the country’s envoy to the UN echoed that statement, also warning of a nuclear war that may follow America’s military buildup. He stressed that Pyongyang will not back down to Washington’s threats and continue its missile tests whenever its suits the country since they represent part of a defensive strategy.
 
Is North Korea Working Toward a 'Carrier-Killer' Anti-Ship Ballistic Missile?
Say hello to the KN-17.

http://thediplomat.com/2017/04/is-n...a-carrier-killer-anti-ship-ballistic-missile/

By Ankit Panda
April 18, 2017

When I discussed North Korea’s latest show-stopper of a military parade over the weekend, I didn’t have too much to say about one of the new missiles that Pyongyang decided to show off. The missile in question appeared to be a Scud/Nodong variant and — like the Pukkuksong-2 that we saw tested for the first time in February — was on a tracked transporter erector launcher (TEL). Notably, the missile had fins on its nose cone, suggesting that it was designed to offer a degree of maneuverability in its descent or terminal phase — a capability Pyongyang has not yet demonstrated, but expressed interest in acquiring.

North Korea hasn’t talked about that specific missile, but today, it appears that the U.S. government has gone public about what it might be. On Monday, U.S. officials told Fox News that the missile North Korea tested on Sunday — the day after the military parade — was something called the KN-17. That represents a brand-new KN missile designation by the United States, which just weeks ago unveiled that it would be calling the Pukkuksong-2 the KN-15. The KN-17, according to a U.S. official that spoke to Fox, is a single-stage, liquid-fueled missile that — critically — could be used to target ships.

That’s right: North Korea may be working toward an anti-ship ballistic missile (ASBM).

This new information about the KN-17 also helps partly identify the mysterious projectile that was tested on April 5, which was incidentally also launched from land near the Sinpo shipyard like Sunday’s launch. (The Diplomat recently offered a deep dive into North Korea’s Sinpo submarine base with satellite imagery.) That missile, which was initially assessed as a Scud, flew for just 60 kilometers with an apogee of 189 kilometers and, strangely, “pinwheeled” in descent, according U.S. Pacific Command.

As David Wright noted in his excellent analysis, the April 5 test’s failure, if it was indeed a Scud, could just be a reminder of “how uncertain the missile business can be.” Indeed, without any additional information, that seemed like a reasonable hypothesis. But North Korea has gotten quite confident in its short- and medium-range single-stage, liquid-fuel missiles. It’s partly why it may be using its ER-Scuds for first-strike rehearsal these days more than testing them to see if they work, for example.

Looking at the April 5 and April 16 launches from Sinpo makes a lot more sense with PACOM’s KN-17 reveal. The KN-17 is North Korea’s attempt to take a base that it is quite confident with — single-stage, liquid-fuel missiles — and experiment with terminal phase maneuverability. Presumably, the assessment U.S. officials gave to Fox News, that this missile could eventually come to serve the role of an anti-ship ballistic missile, is based on those factors alone. (Think something like China’s much-discussed solid-fuel DF-21D carrier-killer, but “Korean-style.”)

Some commentary after the two launch failures out of Sinpo also focused on U.S. attempts to disrupt North Korean missile development through so-called “left of launch” cyber methods. While we don’t know precisely what components of North Korea’s processes are being actively undermined by the United States, it’s possible that given the early development of Pyongyang’s ASBM, things are simply going wrong as they often do in testing and development in the ballistic missile business. (It is somewhat odd, though, that despite Pyongyang’s experience with liquid Scud-like systems, Sunday’s test exploded seconds after launch instead of making it through boost phase like the April 5 test.)

The specter of a North Korean ASBM program will no doubt spark commentary that Pyongyang will be the next to develop a robust anti-access/area denial capability, with “carrier-killer” missiles. That too might be premature. North Korea almost certainly still lacks the over-the-horizon radar capabilities and other associated intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance capabilities that would allow it to credibility threaten, say, a U.S. aircraft carrier with a ballistic missile anytime soon.

In the near-term, North Korea already has its tried-and-tested short-range anti-ship cruise missiles, one variant of which was also prominently paraded on Saturday on tracked TELs painted in the Korean People’s Navy blue camouflage. Based on the subsonic Russian Kh-35, that system seems to be what Pyongyang is counting on most to repel surface ships from its shores in wartime, though it wouldn’t offer the long-range stand-off capabilities of an accurate ASBM. (North Korea also has its older KN-01s and reports a few years ago suggested it was looking to developed an ASCM variant of its KN-02 ground-to-ground missile.)

A lot of this — like so many things related to North Korea — remains speculative. What is increasingly clear though is that Pyongyang is at least interested in maneuverable reentry vehicles (MaRVs). MaRVs would have applications for Pyongyang outside of ASBM applications. For instance, after its Pukkuksong-2 test in February, North Korean state media claimed that the test had “verified … the feature of evading interception,” which could refer to MaRV-like capabilities.

Though the Pukkuksong-2’s warhead didn’t have obviously protruding fins like the unidentified-but-likely-KN-17 missile we saw during Saturday’s parade, even rudimentary MaRVs would increase North Korea’s confidence in its ability to penetrate enemy missile defenses. Pyongyang is already looking into saturating systems like the Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) system in South Korea with multiple missile launches; MaRVs would abet that effort. So, even if this doesn’t pan out to the end point of an ASBM, the KN-17 could be an important test-bed to help Pyongyang develop its MaRV know-how on a base that it knows well: single-stage, liquid-fuel missiles.

Finally, there’s a somewhat droll angle to Pyongyang’s testing of the KN-17 in April, if it indeed was an ASBM. Readers may recall that earlier this month, we saw reports that U.S. Pacific Command had directed the USS Carl Vinson strike group to the Korean peninsula, supposedly in anticipation of a nuclear test. Pacific Command did redirect the Vinson strike group on April 8 — three days after the first failed test out of Sinpo — but it was redirected to the Western Pacific — not the Korean peninsula.

Anyway, with the test dates for the KN-17 and the false reports about the Vinson‘s northbound trip, one wonders if Pyongyang’s test on Sunday could have additionally sought to signal a burgeoning ASBM capability to a U.S. carrier group that wasn’t actually in the region — a shot across the bow of a ship that wasn’t even there, so to speak.

The alternative is, however, a simpler explanation and just as likely: North Korea is still just trying to develop its missile capabilities and improve its knowledge base in its inexorable quest for a guarantee against coercive regime change.
 
Fake US Escalation With North Korea Blamed on 'Miscommunication'
It's all a distraction. Throw your television out the nearest window.

RI Editorial Board
6 hours ago | 1292 Comments



Sure.

We're still shocked by the level of laziness and cynicism that the media has shown over the last week as it attempts to scare the pants (trousers, for the crumpet-eaters) off every human with an electronic device.

We're still not going to war with North Korea, especially because the mighty US flotilla that everyone said was anchored off the coast of North Korea is actually 3,500 miles away.

It wasn't a navigational error. It was a hoax to keep you distracted, hopeless and glued to your television. Sorry?

As CNN reports:

As the White House was talking about sending a naval "armada" to the Korean Peninsula, the very ships in question were on their way to participate in military exercises in the Indian Ocean, some 3,500 miles in the opposite direction.

A senior administration official blamed a miscommunication between the Pentagon and the White House over reports that the aircraft carrier has not made its way to the Sea of Japan, also known as the East Sea, as an expected show of force to North Korea.

The official blamed the mixup on a lack of follow-up with commanders overseeing the movements of the USS Carl Vinson aircraft carrier.

Stop. Just stop. It's an aircraft carrier, not a dentist appointment. There's no way to "miscommunicate" where it will be, or when it will be there.


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We've said it before and we'll say it again: We're being played. The North Korea "threat" is an extremely expensive, theatrical distraction.

Look, they even gave Mike Pence one of those dumb Members Only leather jackets to wear while he threatened North Korea on a boat near Indonesia:

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Enough already.

***


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@Jlaw , @terranMarine , @AndrewJin , @Chinese-Dragon , @Dungeness
 
Already many threads on the issue. The strike group is no where near the region. Trump just bluffed the world with 3rd world war lol.
Move the thread to North korean tensions thread and the discussion is already there
 
US tells North Korea: We don't want a fight, don't start one

EDITH M. LEDERER
Associated PressApril 20, 2017
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FILE - In this Friday, April 7, 2017 file photo, United States ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley listens as Syria's Deputy U.N. Ambassador Mounzer Mounzer speaks during a Security Council meeting on the situation in Syria at United Nations headquarters. On Wednesday, April 19, 2017, Haley had a message for North Korea: "We're not trying to pick a fight so don't try and give us one." (AP Photo/Mary Altaffer)
UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The U.S. ambassador to the United Nations had a message for North Korea on Wednesday: "We're not trying to pick a fight so don't try and give us one."

"The ball is in their court," Ambassador Nikki Haley told reporters. "They shouldn't try and play at this point."

Learn moreSyria And North KoreaNorth Korea U.S.Trump North KoreaPence North KoreaNorth Korea Threatens U.S. With Nuclear War
Haley's comments followed President Donald Trump's recent statement that the U.S. wants peace — and that how much North Korean ruler Kim Jong Un also wants peace will be a deciding factor in easing tensions between the two countries.

Trump has been pressuring China, North Korea's main benefactor, to help defuse the situation over North Korea's development of atomic weapons and long-range missiles but he has also warned that the U.S. will settle the issue alone if other countries won't help.

U.N. Secretary-General Antonio Guterres told reporters the United Nations fully backs efforts of all states trying to ensure "that North Korea doesn't acquire the capacities that would become a threat, not only for the region but in a wider area of the world."

Tensions have escalated over North Korean moves to accelerate its arms programs, including developing an intercontinental ballistic missile that could reach the United States.

The North conducted two nuclear bomb tests and 24 ballistic missile tests last year, defying six Security Council sanctions resolutions banning any testing, and it has conducted additional missile tests this year, including one on Saturday that failed. Developing a hydrogen bomb is also a declared priority of North Korea, officially the Democratic People's Republic of Korea or DPRK.

Guterres singled out the countries "in the front line" of contacts with North Korea — the U.S., China, South Korea, Russia and Japan — and said everybody involved should "make sure that everything is done for the threat represented by the development in relation to missiles and in relation to the potential for nuclear capability not to become a threat to the international community."

North Korea, however, withdrew from the six-party talks aimed at the denuclearization of the Korean peninsula in 2009 and has shown no interest in returning.

Haley, the current president of the U.N. Security Council, said members were working on a statement condemning the latest failed missile launch.

Diplomats said the U.S.-drafted statement would strongly condemn the launch and express the council's "utmost concern" at North Korea's "highly destabilizing behavior and flagrant and provocative defiance" of council resolutions. It would also demand an immediate end to the North's nuclear and missile tests, threaten to take "further significant measures" — U.N. code for new sanctions — and state that North Korea's illegal activities "are greatly increasing tension in the region and beyond."

The diplomats, who agreed to discuss the statement only on condition of anonymity because consultations have been private, said China had signed off on it. But they said Russia objected because a sentence in the draft expressing the council's commitment "to a peaceful, diplomatic and political solution to the situation" dropped the words "through dialogue" that had been in previous statements.

Whether agreement can be reached on a statement remains to be seen.

North Korea will definitely be in the U.N. spotlight on April 28 when U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson presides at a Security Council meeting where Guterres will brief members on the North's nuclear program. The U.S. has invited foreign ministers from the 14 other council nations and many are expected to attend.

A concept paper circulated to council members ahead of the meeting states that North Korea's "pursuit of weapons of mass destruction represents one of the gravest threats to international peace and security the Security Council faces."

The paper, obtained by The Associated Press, says the North's latest actions "make clear that further international pressure is required for the DPRK to change its behavior if there is to be any hope for meaningful denuclearization talks to resume."

It says the meeting will give council members an opportunity to discuss ways to maximize the impact of existing U.N. sanctions "and show their resolve to respond to further provocations with significant new measures." Council members can also "recommit to implementing all existing and future sanctions to maximize pressure on the DPRK to return to meaningful negotiations on denuclearization," the paper says.
 
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