North Korea sanctions punish the whole population

[retaxis]

then explain to me what North Korea is? is it a utopia is it a hell?? is it an average country


clearly we have been misled in the first world about North Korea




does SinoJin agree Diaoyu is not Senkaku??

North Korea is simply North Korea. A buffer state used between two super powers to prevent each other from having to deal with each other directly. If it prevents world war 3 then it is, in your sense, a heavenly state in purpose.

 

[C130]

North Korea is simply North Korea. A buffer state used between two super powers to prevent each other from having to deal with each other directly. If it prevents world war 3 then it is, in your sense, a heavenly state in purpose.

so you won't explain what happens in North Korea to the average person. you know whether that have freedom and basic human rights.

 

[retaxis]

so you won't explain what happens in North Korea to the average person. you know whether that have freedom and basic human rights.

Explain that to the 'average' person who is probably sitting in Africa waiting for their next meal because America and their allies overthrew the last president because they said something anti-west and now they are left in civil war.

Whats your American view of the average person? Some rich white suburban class kid who is choosing whether to study a degree in arts or humanities?

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

does SinoJin agree Diaoyu is not Senkaku??

We agree with disagree, what is a big deal about that, Diaoyu or Senkaku is not different, we can settle peacefully with Japan. But it's funny and surprise to me to see all western and American insecure reaction for Sino-Japanese rapprochement, it's the sign that we're moving on the right direction. In the future if I want to p1ss more westerner poster here I need to do more effort to cozy my Japanese friends such as @Nihonjin1051 .

 

[Tiqiu]

Since i saw you on Irandefence around 10years ago you have not grown or matured one bit. How unfortunate that you still have to have that gun-ho-ethical high ground approach. Do you tire of this? Because this ethical high chair bullsh1t is very tiresome, Some of my patients have dementia and they seem more interesting than you at this stage mate with your constant regurgitating of the we are good you are evil bullsh1t.

You nailed it
I feel I have 10 years saved.

 

[Aepsilons]

Explain that to the 'average' person who is probably sitting in Africa waiting for their next meal because America and their allies overthrew the last president because they said something anti-west and now they are left in civil war.

Whats your American view of the average person? Some rich white suburban class kid who is choosing whether to study a degree in arts or humanities?

Normally i don't cosign myself to petty protagonist / antagonist labeling , however, it is the height of arrogance for anyone to claim sole ownership of correction as int he case of the argument of western civilization being the beacon of "freedom" , when we live in a multicultural, multidimensional, and multi-praxis oriented world. In the end, what is 'truth' ? What is 'freedom'? Definitions and interpretations of such philosophical dictum are .... relative. I suppose we have to recognize, and accept that bimodal aspect of consigning significance to one particular ideology, and that is what our western friends tend to fail in appreciating. Ultimately , if we are to abscond from unilateral opinings , and truly enclothe ourselves towards the direction of multipolarity , then we must be open to various interpretations of a particular phenomena. This absolutist rhetoric one tends to find in Western propaganda pieces of "China threat", or "Japanese militarism", or "Korean nuclear crisis" has a negative tone, ultimately, which aims to depict the unease and instability in the Great East Asian World. What many East Asian Patriots and I are merely calling for is the "holding" of the proverbial horse, lol. Taking a step back, and analyze the situation from the other vantage point.

I suppose we yearn for that, yes.

Yoish!!!~~~!

 

[gambit]

Typical American. Everything is either BLACK or WHITE. There is no gray. Heaven or Hell, Pure or Evil, Good or Bad.

Life is made of the parts inbetween. In fact there is nothing besides the gray parts in life as there is no purity in the world. Understanding the natural forces which lie due to the circumstances is vital in understanding the way the world works. A cheap and easy life lesson for you my young protege.

This is what often happened when a person got any education higher than a Master. He/she become stupid.

Ideas MUST be black/white. How do you get shades of grey ? By mixing different levels of black and white colors. The admonition 'Do not lie' must be absolute in order to provide a limit. The other limit is lie all you want without a care for consequences.

For example...

The admonition 'Do not lie' is a moral directive, not a legal one. If your woman ask if the dress make her look fat, you better lie even though she knows you are lying. On the other hand, if you tell a painful truth under oath in court, no one would fault you for not lying.

Another example is 'Do not kill'. But there are times when we determine that killing is necessary, such as war or in self defense.

There is nothing typical about what I just said in the sense that such attitude is unique to a people. Everyone know what I said is true.

North Korea is simply North Korea.

This is as meaningless and stupid as 'It is what it is'. A typical statement use to mask intellectual cowardice when confronted with an uncomfortable challenge.

A buffer state used between two super powers to prevent each other from having to deal with each other directly. If it prevents world war 3 then it is, in your sense, a heavenly state in purpose.

So what ? That does not mean you are prevented from making your own diagnosis on this patient, ain't it ? What are you afraid of, that you might be perceived as agreeing with Americans and piss off the Chinese ?

 

[Aepsilons]

@retaxis


So what does this all have to do with absolute thinking? Well it's this simple, human beings, regardless of race, religion or culture, are likely to embrace any belief that is absolute. This is because absolute beliefs are simple, easy to comprehend, and false positives that offer us a false sense of security. If we come to believe that a particular population of people are either all good or all bad, then we fool ourselves into thinking that we have got a piece of a particular equation all figured out. This is a comforting state of mind to be in, as we feel assured and in control. If you have decided that a group of people are all bad, then all you have to do is stay away from them. Life just got easier. If you decide that a group of people are your enemy, all you have to do is make war against them and once they are all gone life would be better, right?

The problem with absolute thinking is that it causes pain and suffering in the life of the person who adheres to an all-or-nothing attitude in any facet of his thought process. This is because the person is routinely exposed to contradictions to his beliefs, which creates a sense of threat to his world view. Absolute thinking doesn't just come into play in prejudices, it is a primary factor in how people live their lives.

The best remedy for habitual absolute thinking--especially when it comes to relating to others--is the practice of empathy.

With the practice of empathy, you are taught to practice being considerate to others from these simple baseline processes.

Typical American. Everything is either BLACK or WHITE. There is no gray. Heaven or Hell, Pure or Evil, Good or Bad.

Life is made of the parts inbetween. In fact there is nothing besides the gray parts in life as there is no purity in the world. Understanding the natural forces which lie due to the circumstances is vital in understanding the way the world works. A cheap and easy life lesson for you my young protege.

You know --- the problem with absolute thinking is that it is assumed to be a major cause of errors in judgment about self, which can lead to depression, anxiety and a host of psycho-cognitive maladies. Where habitually allied to negatively thinking it can lead to distortions in perceptions and information processing that can lead to depression. Btw, in clinical psychology and medical psychiatry, we refer to this process in the lead up to cognitive bias.

What Is a Cognitive Bias? Definition, Examples, and List

Ideas MUST be black/white. How do you get shades of grey ? By mixing different levels of black and white colors. The admonition 'Do not lie' must be absolute in order to provide a limit. The other limit is lie all you want without a care for consequences.

This is a classic example of absolutist thinking, unfortunately. In fact this is a poor attempt in defense of absolutist thinking. Therein is an example of how in absolutist thinking or absolutist conjectures there is derision of cognition in the void of compromise , or spirit of compromise.

This is a classic example of thinking within the box and inability or natural refusal to recognize creative solutions outside the proverbial box.

 

[gambit]

This is a classic example of absolutist thinking, unfortunately. In fact this is a poor attempt in defense of absolutist thinking. Therein is an example of how in absolutist thinking or absolutist conjectures there is derision of cognition in the void of compromise , or spirit of compromise.

This is a classic example of thinking within the box and inability or natural refusal to recognize creative solutions outside the proverbial box.

This is exactly what I mean when I said a PhD can make a person stupid.

There is a general idea of making compromises, but there is no standard compromise for all situations. In entering any negotiation, one must be already standing on an absolute, such as 'No nuclear weapons for...' or 'I want one million dollars for affordable housing'. Only when all sides made clear their absolutist positions can all sides begins negotiation towards an acceptable compromise where everyone shares benefits and disappointments.

What was JPN's insistence on preserving the monarchy in the aftermath of WW II, if not an absolutist position ?

 

[Aepsilons]

This is exactly what I mean when I said a PhD can make a person stupid.

There is a general idea of making compromises, but there is no standard compromise for all situations. In entering any negotiation, one must be already standing on an absolute, such as 'No nuclear weapons for...' or 'I want one million dollars for affordable housing'. Only when all sides made clear their absolutist positions can all sides begins negotiation towards an acceptable compromise where everyone shares benefits and disappointments.

You tend to hold a very splitting image of things, Gambit. It has the tone of "either you're with me, or you're against me", that even critical appraisal, which are constructive criticisms in our own political dialectics here in PDF is misconstrued as a personal attack or requisite of a vendetta, which is what i don't understand. I have many American colleagues who i know and maintain rapport with in the collegiate , research level. They know my position on certain security parameters, yet we are able to work through these political differences. Then there are some , and i think you are a perfect example of this , in that you cannot seem to digest a perceived challenge to your train of thought. Instead of discoursing on points of differences, finding a creative solution or creative appreciation for these stances, you tend to lambast the other person's critical appraisal, which i could not really get. Perhaps you should look into yourself and discern more -- reflect more on your interpersonal skills , abilities, potentialities.

I do wish for you a happy , long, and fruitful life.

What was JPN's insistence on preserving the monarchy in the aftermath of WW II, if not an absolutist position ?

It was done in spirit of compromise. The monarchy would be preserved to serve as the symbol of the unity of the nation, provided that the Imperial System would renounce the divinity of the Emperor in the political sense. Preservation of the imperial system was essential for the identity of the Japanese people and for the future generations, at the same time, adopting a liberal democratic, representative form of government that would keep military forces in check, indefinitely.

Naturally, i don't view this adoption as an evil. I believe the US intervention in Japan had some positive effects in regards to imposing some audit systems which was necessary for transparency's sake. So you see, i see the overall picture and give credit where credit is due.

I don't have an absolutist thinking mindset.

Bruce Lee said it best,

 

[gambit]

You tend to hold a very splitting image of things, Gambit. It has the tone of "either you're with me, or you're against me", that even critical appraisal, which are constructive criticisms in our own political dialectics here in PDF is misconstrued as a personal attack or requisite of a vendetta, which is what i don't understand. I have many American colleagues who i know and maintain rapport with in the collegiate , research level. They know my position on certain security parameters, yet we are able to work through these political differences. Then there are some , and i think you are a perfect example of this , in that you cannot seem to digest a perceived challenge to your train of thought. Instead of discoursing on points of differences, finding a creative solution or creative appreciation for these stances, you tend to lambast the other person's critical appraisal, which i could not really get. Perhaps you should look into yourself and discern more -- reflect more on your interpersonal skills , abilities, potentialities.

I do wish for you a happy , long, and fruitful life.

I have no interest in your diagnosis of me.

It was done in spirit of compromise. The monarchy would be preserved to serve as the symbol of the unity of the nation, provided that the Imperial System would renounce the divinity of the Emperor in the political sense. Preservation of the imperial system was essential for the identity of the Japanese people and for the future generations, at the same time, adopting a liberal democratic, representative form of government that would keep military forces in check, indefinitely.

JPN's insistence on preserving the monarchy was an absolutist position in and for the needs that you highlighted. Since the monarchy still exists, that mean the US believe that absolutist position to be acceptable. JPN gave some, the US gave some.

I don't have an absolutist thinking mindset.

Yes, you do. You are a JPNese nationalist, THAT is an absolutist position.

The problem here is that people seems to think that absolutist position and mindset are only for the moral realm.

 

[Aepsilons]

Yes, you do. You are a JPNese nationalist, THAT is an absolutist position.

No, i am not a Japanese nationalist, i am an East Asian patriot that believes , ultimately, in the eventual collapse of the abstractist national lines and national borders. I am more inclined towards the theories of post-structuralism, liberation philosophy. To be a believer of the East Asian paradigm requires one to yield some beliefs for the inclusion of the others, which leads one to the direction of Perspectivialism.

I have no interest in your diagnosis of me.

Take it as a positive criticism, not a 'diagnosis'. Don't be so defensive.

The problem here is that people seems to think that absolutist position and mindset are only for the moral realm.

Of course not, its actually quite multifactorial. That's the beauty in this discourse in that it is not linear, rather, multidimensional.

JPN's insistence on preserving the monarchy was an absolutist position in and for the needs that you highlighted. Since the monarchy still exists, that mean the US believe that absolutist position to be acceptable. JPN gave some, the US gave some.

Had Japan held an absolutist position, Japan would have never compromised. The very definition of absolutism is to be resistant to change, alternative thought structures and modalities. The fact that Japan and the United States were able to compromise in regards to the order of governance after the conclusion of the war means that both were, ultimately, the antithesis of absolutism , rather both were reactionary, which enables it to respond to perception in the environment.

I suppose i'm trying to tie in the sense of compromise in this discourse in context to North Korea in that --- it is trying to introduce to readers as well as posters here on how condoning only a securitized based answer is an example of absolutism. Rather, there should be some kind of compromise , in the spirit of consideration for the civilian population in North Korea, who , ultimately, as indicated in this article, are the ones who suffer.

Again, this goes back to the theme of: Empathy.

 

[Aepsilons]

Doubts in Asia Over Whether New Sanctions Against North Korea Can Work


By CHOE SANG-HUN and EDWARD WONGFEB. 26, 2016


SEOUL, South Korea — As a new set of sanctions against North Korea circulated at the United Nations Security Council, analysts in South Korea and China expressed doubts on Friday that the measures would be tough enough to force the pariah state to give up its nuclear weapons.

The United States presented a draft resolution it had negotiated with China to the Security Council on Thursday, calling for wide-ranging penalties against North Korea for a nuclear test it conducted on Jan. 6 and for its launching of a long-range rocket a month later, both of which violated previous council resolutions.

The draft contained the most comprehensive and toughest sanctions against the isolated country that the council has ever considered. There was no doubt that they would squeeze North Korea’s ability to raise funds for its weapons programs, depending on how vigorously China, the North’s single largest trade partner, enforced the sanctions, analysts said.

If adopted, the resolution would require United Nations member states to inspect all cargo passing through their territories to or from North Korea for illicit goods. It would also attempt to limit North Korea’s sale of minerals, especially coal and iron ore, two of its most important exports.

ut the draft contained no effective sanctions against a booming trade across the relatively porous 870-mile border between China and North Korea — a lifeline not only for the impoverished North Korean people but also for their government’s ability to earn cash. Nor did it require countries, especially China, to cut off oil exports to the North.

It would also not affect tens of thousands of North Korean workers at factories, construction sites and logging camps in China, Russia, Africa and the Middle East. According to some estimates, they send home $200 million to $300 million a year, most of which human rights groups contend ends up in the coffers of the North’s leader, Kim Jong-un.

“These sanctions will certainly hurt the North,” said Koh Yu-hwan, a professor at Dongguk University in Seoul. “But I don’t think they will hurt them enough to abandon their nuclear weapons.”

Analysts in China said Beijing’s approval of the sanctions proposed by the United States was the result of a complex calculus by Communist Party leaders. A factor that has loomed large for them in recent weeks is plans by Washington to deploy an antiballistic missile system, called Thaad, in South Korea. Chinese officials are seeking ways to prevent that from.

“If it was not for the Thaad issue, there might not be such cooperation between China and the U.S.,” said Shen Dingli, a professor of international relations at Fudan University in Shanghai. “By doing this, it is still possible for China to dissuade the Americans from deploying Thaad at China’s doorstep.”

China’s agreement to limit imports of North Korean coal and iron ore, for example, came with an important caveat: It should be demonstrated that such imports would support illicit North Korean activities. North Korea’s minerals, mainly its coal and iron ore, accounted for 53 percent of its $2.8 billion in exports to China in 2014, according to data compiled by the government-run Korea Institute for National Unification in Seoul.

“There are still too many loopholes for us to predict that they will lead to North Korea’s denuclearization,” said Chang Yong-seok, an analyst at the Institute for Peace and Unification Studies at Seoul National University. “These sanctions are more like a warning to the North about how much more it could suffer if it conducted another nuclear test, and an inducement for the country to return to the negotiating table.”

Currently, an estimated 75 percent of North Korea’s foreign trade, including almost all of its oil imports, is with China, providing Beijing with unique economic leverage over the North. The two-way trade amounted to $5.5 billion last year, according to figures from Chinese customs authorities.

But China’s approach on how to solve the North Korean problem is fundamentally different from that of the United States or South Korea. It insists that sanctions should not aim to push North Korea toward instability but to induce it back to the negotiating table.

After negotiating the proposed sanctions with his Chinese counterpart, Wang Yi, Secretary of State John Kerry said on Tuesday that North Korea could ultimately have a peace agreement with the United States “if it will come to the table and negotiate the denuclearization.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/27/world/asia/north-korea-sanctions-un.html?_r=0

 

[gambit]

Sounds Like I caught you out

YOU caught me out ?

You want to psychoanalyze someone ? Go look in the mirror.

You have the courage to criticize US, but when you were asked a simple question about NKR, the best you came up with was: North Korea is North Korea.

What the hell was that ? It has been us who have been generous with you with our time.

 

[mike2000 is back]

All your deflections is not going to divert from the cold hard fact that China have just joined US in this latest sanction regime. Sucking up to the Chinese members here is not going to help your argument.

OF course China just like Russia and other P5 powers+Germany all voted for sanctions against N.Korea in the past and present. I dont understand why some people are still trying to frame it as if its just the other 'evil' P3 powers(U.S,U.K and France) who voted for sanctions.lol Weird.
Anyway, N.Korea provocations and threats is just pushing S.Korea even more closer to U.S security alliance than she is already. WIN-WIN for the U.S and S.Korea. LOSE-LOSE for Pyongyang.



Blue House rejects China envoy’s criticism of Thaad remark
Feb 25,2016

Chinese Ambassador to Seoul Qiu Guohong, right, expresses strong opposition to the deployment of the Thaad battery in Korea in a meeting with Kim Chong-in, left, interim leader of the opposition Minjoo Party at the National Assembly on Tuesday. [NEWSIS]


S.Korea's Blue House on Wednesday shot down the Chinese ambassador’s criticism of the deployment of the Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (Thaad) system on the Korean Peninsula, insisting the decision was based on Seoul’s security and national interests.

“The issue of the deployment of the Thaad by the U.S. Forces Korea is a measure related to our self-defense in response to North Korea’s increasing nuclear and missile threat and a situation to be decided upon in accordance to our security and national interest,” Blue House spokesman Jeong Yeon-guk said in a briefing. “The Chinese need to recognize this.”

On Tuesday, Chinese Ambassador Qiu Guohong expressed strong opposition to the deployment of the American anti-ballistic missile defense system in a meeting with Kim Chong-in, interim leader of the opposition Minjoo Party at the National Assembly.

Beijing’s envoy said in a rare public statement on the issue that the placement of the Thaad battery can could pose a security issue for China and “instantaneously” sour bilateral relations, which would take a long time to recover.

He added that if the Thaad deployment had not been an issue, a new United Nations Security Council resolution on North Korea’s fourth nuclear test would already have been passed, an indication that Beijing is playing one issue off the other in negotiations with the United States.

Washington and Seoul said they will launch talks on the placement of the Thaad battery in Korea soon. The two sides agreed to officially launch negotiations immediately after North Korea’s Feb. 7 long-range missile test, but the start of the talks on Tuesday was delayed for unspecified purposes.

Beijing has been consistently wary of the battery’s placement in South Korea and has reacted especially sensitively toward the AN/TPY-2, a high-resolution, rapidly deployable X-Band radar designed to detect, track and identify ballistic missile threats at long distances and high altitudes.

The mobile X-Band radar can scan the horizon for hostile missiles up to a maximum of 2,000 kilometers.

The South Korean Ministry of Foreign Affairs said in a statement Wednesday that “it is reasonable to examine the root of the problem” when raising the issue of the deployment of the Thaad.

The ministry also said, “The U.S. Forces Korea deployment of the Thaad is a separate issue from that of the passing of a UN Security Council sanctions resolution.”

Deputy Minister for Political Affairs Kim Hong-kyun summoned Ambassador Qiu to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs Wednesday to explain the reports. The ministry said he provided “a sincere explanation” regarding his talks with the Minjoo Party leadership Tuesday. Qiu conveyed he “understood the sensitivity of this situation.”

Blue House rejects China envoy’s criticism of Thaad remark-INSIDE Korea JoongAng Daily


N.Korea should keep it up like its supporters keep claiming it should. Lol Good for the U.S