No need for 126 Rafales: Parrikar

[SamantK]

well you may hate this guy, but in my opinion he made a sensible decision.

Actually more and more analysts are coming round to his view, believe me when someone says that I will reduce a newly formed core by half instead of brickbats from the analysts - many agreed with the decision.

The tendering process was wrong, no question about that. But India needs more capable birds in numbers.

Su-30s are capable and the numbers can be increased without other headaches. The capabilities might be limited compared to Rafale but still it will do.

Did you hear SAAB gripen escorting Indian President's Flight?
India could also buy light fighter to replace MiG-21: Parrikar | Business Standard News

Multiple scenarios to think about. Maybe a collaboration to accelerate MK2.

 

[Skull and Bones]

Did you hear SAAB gripen escorting Indian President's Flight?
India could also buy light fighter to replace MiG-21: Parrikar | Business Standard News

Multiple scenarios to think about. Maybe a collaboration to accelerate MK2.

Replacement of Mig-21s need immediate action and resolve, what about Mig-27 or Mig-23s that has been already retired. After 5 years, voices will be there to retire the Jaguars.

 

[SamantK]

Replacement of Mig-21s need immediate action and resolve, what about Mig-27 or Mig-23s that has been already retired. After 5 years, voices will be there to retire the Jaguars.

If LCA Mk1 FoC next month as promised then cranking up the production rates will do.

 

[Bang Galore]

Actually more and more analysts are coming round to his view, believe me when someone says that I will reduce a newly formed core by half instead of brickbats from the analysts - many agreed with the decision.


Su-30s are capable and the numbers can be increased without other headaches. The capabilities might be limited compared to Rafale but still it will do.

Did you hear SAAB gripen escorting Indian President's Flight?
India could also buy light fighter to replace MiG-21: Parrikar | Business Standard News

Multiple scenarios to think about. Maybe a collaboration to accelerate MK2.

The problem is that the MoD & The IAF tried to be too clever by half and didn't take the financial complications into account. Either the Rafale is much superior to the single engined planes where upon you don't need the same numbers or they should have stuck with a decent platform like the F-16 which would have been the cheapest viable option to get the numbers.

 

[MastanKhan]

Sirs,

This is called a cluster fcuk----. To some of you indian members---how does it feel to get your feet back on the ground----how does it feel when you have your expectations smashed and reality hit you in the face and you realize the it was just an illusion----.

That also after 5 years and more of this drama---you guys are left empty handed with a little bit of grease to stroke yourself ( the 36 rafales ).

I want to know how the French are feeling---how are they taking this news----. Do they feel like they have been rammed hard in a manner only the Indians can do it-----aah those poor French----.

 

[SamantK]

The problem is that the MoD & The IAF tried to be too clever by half and didn't take the financial complications into account. Either the Rafale is much superior to the single engined planes where upon you don't need the same numbers or they should have stuck with a decent platform like the F-16 which would have been the cheapest viable option to get the numbers.

Agreed but then we Indians have a habit of expecting more from the money we pay. Thus they thought the offsets could revolutionise the aero industry. IAF should also be criticized for showing exaggerated enthusiasm without the rationality of it.

I think a solid co-development with SAAB or others for Tejas Mk2 will make sure the success of the platform in the decades to come

Sirs,

This is called a cluster fcuk----. To some of you indian members---how does it feel to get your feet back on the ground----how does it feel when you have your expectations smashed and reality hit you in the face and you realize the it was just an illusion----.

That also after 5 years and more of this drama---you guys are left empty handed with a little bit of grease to stroke yourself ( the 36 rafales ).

I want to know how the French are feeling---how are they taking this news----. Do they feel like they have been rammed hard in a manner only the Indians can do it-----aah those poor French----.

From the facts coming out, it would have been a cluster f*ck if we would have signed on the dotted line.

Indians have felt and still feel that we lack a long term planning for our defence acquisitions, nothing new.

 

[Styx]

These statements could also be psychological games being played as a way to leverage the back channel price negotiations.

picture abhi baaki hai

but either way, I hope they go for at least 12 more.

 

[SrNair]

Sirs,

This is called a cluster fcuk----. To some of you indian members---how does it feel to get your feet back on the ground----how does it feel when you have your expectations smashed and reality hit you in the face and you realize the it was just an illusion----.

That also after 5 years and more of this drama---you guys are left empty handed with a little bit of grease to stroke yourself ( the 36 rafales ).

I want to know how the French are feeling---how are they taking this news----. Do they feel like they have been rammed hard in a manner only the Indians can do it-----aah those poor French----.

36 is not that small number.And in here we are talking about the Dassault Rafale.Only EF and fifth gen is better than it.
Perhaps most advanced in this part of Asia.We have money to buy it.But DM said that we dont need it.
Those 15 billion will used for our indigenous effort.

 

[MastanKhan]

Agreed but then we Indians have a habit of expecting more from the money we pay. Thus they thought the offsets could revolutionise the aero industry. IAF should also be criticized for showing exaggerated enthusiasm without the rationality of it.

I think a solid co-development with SAAB or others for Tejas Mk2 will make sure the success of the platform in the decades to come


From the facts coming out, it would have been a cluster f*ck if we would have signed on the dotted line.

Indians have felt and still feel that we lack a long term planning for our defence acquisitions, nothing new.

Sir,

Time is the worst enemy of a weapons purchase or any other major purchase----.

I have hardly ever written on this subject-----. I was waiting for the results-------so here they are----You guys have been fckd hard by your defence minister----.

126 was the right number---and the price was right as well----.

Remember the BOFORS claim of Gandhi taking bribes and Bofors was a piece of shit gun----and it proved itself at Kargil----.

Maybe you need to check the birth certificate of your DM---maybe he is Pakistani----.

Thank you lowering the bar----.

 

[cerberus]

Sir,

Time is the worst enemy of a weapons purchase or any other major purchase----.

I have hardly ever written on this subject-----. I was waiting for the results-------so here they are----You guys have been fckd hard by your defence minister----.

126 was the right number---and the price was right as well----.

Remember the BOFORS claim of Gandhi taking bribes and Bofors was a piece of shit gun----and it proved itself at Kargil----.

Maybe you need to check the birth certificate of your DM---maybe he is Pakistani----.

Thank you lowering the bar----.

What do you have in paf to counter even 36 rafale in that matter

 

[Bang Galore]

Agreed but then we Indians have a habit of expecting more from the money we pay. Thus they thought the offsets could revolutionise the aero industry. IAF should also be criticized for showing exaggerated enthusiasm without the rationality of it.

I think a solid co-development with SAAB or others for Tejas Mk2 will make sure the success of the platform in the decades to come.

If you looked at my posts on this subject over the last couple of years, I have been arguing that this way of business with this tender is simply economic suicide. When you are looking for a platform, you obviously have to make your budget clear - $10 billion, 13....15... and then ask for the best offers to fit that budget. That is the only possible way to actually compare these different platforms, say you might have got 126 F-16 for about $10 billion or less, 126 Gripen for about $12-13 billion or 126 F-18 for $15 billion or under etc.....Maybe there would only be 72 Rafale & EF for that amount. then it would be left to the IAF to compare whether 126 nos. of one platform is better or will 72 Nos. of another be enough etc. We certainly wouldn't be having this ridiculous numbers argument at the very least.

 

[SamantK]

Sir,

Time is the worst enemy of a weapons purchase or any other major purchase----.

I have hardly ever written on this subject-----. I was waiting for the results-------so here they are----You guys have been fckd hard by your defence minister----.

126 was the right number---and the price was right as well----.

Remember the BOFORS claim of Gandhi taking bribes and Bofors was a piece of shit gun----and it proved itself at Kargil----.

Maybe you need to check the birth certificate of your DM---maybe he is Pakistani----.

Thank you lowering the bar----.

Yes precious time was lost, we have no doubt on that. Congress screwed the whole nation not just this deal.

The bribes and corruption in BOFORS is an established fact, no one criticised the Gun per se but the money the middlemen made out of it. The Rafale was a decision which was f8cked from the beginning and the general population was not let in on that secret.

Are you saying that corruption is ok for a good product? A product you have never used before?

Sir, we have problems and they are well known. You have not made any new revelation today, so thank you.

And we do not have a habit of tagging ever other person as Pakistani.

If you looked at my posts on this subject over the last couple of years, I have been arguing that this way of business with this tender is simply economic suicide. When you are looking for a platform, you obviously have to make your budget clear - $10 billion, 13....15... and then ask for the best offers to fit that budget. That is the only possible way to actually compare these different platforms, say you might have got 126 F-16 for about $10 billion or less, 126 Gripen for about $12-13 billion or 126 F-18 for $15 billion or under etc.....Maybe there would only be 72 Rafale & EF for that amount. then it would be left to the IAF to compare whether 126 nos. of one platform is better or will 72 Nos. of another be enough etc. We certainly wouldn't be having this ridiculous numbers argument at the very least.

I know that you have been consistent in your stand and now the forces have to live with 36 when clearly they could have got more of these birds if the decision to buy them would have completed 3 years back with enough flexibility but St Anthony wanted to remain a Saint for his own Lungi.

 

[Skull and Bones]

If LCA Mk1 FoC next month as promised then cranking up the production rates will do.

Even if it's done, the production rate won't exceed 12-14 for atleast 5 years. I have proposed assimilating NAL into HAL, and using their idle production lines to produce atleast 20 LCAs a year.

 

[SamantK]

Even if it's done, the production rate won't exceed 12-14 for atleast 5 years. I have proposed assimilating NAL into HAL, and using their idle production lines to produce atleast 20 LCAs a year.

Im sure a firm order by IAF can do wonders in increasing the capacity

 

[IND151]

NEW DELHI: Terming the UPA's proposed deal for 126 Rafale fighter jets as "economically unviable" and not required, Defence minister Manohar Parrikar has said the NDA government will buy only 36 of the French aircraft, to be used for strategic purposes, and no more.

Parrikar also raised questions on the tendering process initiated by former Defence minister AK Antony and said his predecessor had "hammered" the tender in such a way that the Rafale deal would have never seen the light of the day.

Rejecting criticism from the Congress that Prime Minister Narendra Modi had bypassed the Finance Ministry and the Defence Acquisition Council, the apex body of the Defence Ministry that takes the call on military projects, Parrikar said "the deal is yet to be inked" and they should hold their horses till the process was complete.

He expressed confidence that the Committee, that has been set up to work out the contract, would complete the task in the next 2-3 months.

The Modi government has scrapped the over USD 20 billion deal for 126 Rafales more than three years after Dassault was declared the lowest bidder under UPA's tenure.

READ ALSO: Congress assails Modi govt over Rafale deal, downsizing of attack corps along China border

During his visit to France last month, the Prime Minister announced the decision to buy 36 of these jets in a fly-away condition under a government-to-government (G2G) contract. Parrikar underlined that the decision to acquire 36 Rafales came in view of the "urgent requirement" of Indian Air Force.

"We are not buying the rest. We are only buying the direct 36," Parrikar told PTI when asked what will happen to rest of the requirement.

He said that the UPA deal for 126 Rafales was way too expensive and it would have hampered other modernisation plans of the Indian military.

The deal would have required around Rs 1.3 lakh crore over a period of 10-11 years, he added.

"Would there be any money for any other work?" he asked. "I also feel like having a BMW and Mercedes. But I don't because I can't afford it. First I can't afford it and second I don't need it. So, 126 Rafales was economically unviable. It was not required," Parrikar said.
No need for 126 Rafales: Parrikar - The Times of India

This part is important.

MilSpec @sancho @XiNiX