No mujahideen, only soldiers in Kargil: Pak General

[majesticpankaj]

pakistan is totally exposed by their own generals... shame on pakistan's army for not accepting the dead bodies of their soldiers..with the pretext that they are majaheedin... utter shame .

 

[OrionHunter]

The Pakistan Army, according to then Pak 10 Corps Commander Lt Gen Jamshed Gulzar Kiani, was suffering massive casualties and certain defeat at the hands of the Indian Army due to the intense shelling and continuous bombing of the Pak positions at Kargil, wiping out their supply lines too when Nawaz Sharif felt it was time to call it a day because 'Pak fauj ki izzat ka sawal hai.' It would have been a disaster for the morale of the Pak Army if the war had carried on for a little longer.

This forced Nawaz to rush to the US of A to request Clinton for help in de-escalating the situation. Here is the video. From the horse's mouth, from none other than a very senior and respected professional of the Pak Army who knows the real truth - Lt Gen Jamshed Gulzar Kiani.....

So all that nonsensical tripe written by many self styled know-it-alls that Pakistan won the Kargil war, are living in Cuckoo-land.

 

[KRAIT]

Highlighted in Times Now. Lets see if India is going to use it or not.

 

[IND151]

Gen Aziz now spill the beans, and let Pakistani know how many of Pakistani soldiers killed during Kargil Invasion????


I am keen to know the correct figure as Pakistani still belive that they lost only 100-200 soldiers during Kargil Invasion...

At least 453 PA soldiers and officers died in Kargil, according to some sources.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history-strategy/81462-pakistan-lists-kargil-war-dead.html

http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rc...rYHQBQ&usg=AFQjCNFFvwUQZ8RW8OSXE3v2NZm0LRFSUQ

Nawaz Shariff claimed Pakistan lost 2,700 troops in Kargil. the figure could be total of wounded, captured and killed PA soldiers and officers.

ISLAMABAD: The Pakistan Army lost 2,700 military personnel in the Kargil conflict, far higher than its casualties during the 1965 and 1971 wars with India, former Pakistan prime minister Nawaz Sharif has said in his memoirs.
Giving his account of the 1999 conflict in the book "Ghadaar Kaun? Nawaz Sharif Ki Kahani, Unki Zubani", Sharif said the casualties suffered by the Army were so extensive that an entire brigade of the Northern Light Infantry based in the Pakistan-controlled Northern Areas was wiped out.

http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rc...vYCgCQ&usg=AFQjCNEfo4cVXsC1eMYsXJSVmg-BiD8dXw

 

[Norboo]

Giving his account of the 1999 conflict in the book "Ghadaar Kaun? Nawaz Sharif Ki Kahani, Unki Zubani", Sharif said the casualties suffered by the Army were so extensive that an entire brigade of the Northern Light Infantry based in the Pakistan-controlled Northern Areas was wiped out.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...diers-kargil-pak-general-2.html#ixzz2JA6J1pX3

But still Pakistan claims it won the Kargil war? So what's new? It claims it has won all Indo-Pak wars (Though somewhat neutral on the 1971 conflict). If that be the case then the whole of Kashmir should have been part of Pakistan today as all their attacks on India were for grabbing Kashmir by whatever means - from 1947 to Operation Grand Slam to Operation Gibraltar to Kargil to export of militants for instigating an uprising in Kashmir. Unfortunately for them, all flopped!!

Frustratingly for Pakistan, its plans were not and ain't going according to script! (And never will, in spite of what they say that one Pak Muslim soldier is equal 10 Hindu infidel soldiers! )

 

[LiberalAtheist]

Musharaf that son of a ***** wasted our taxpayer dollars for military aid when he probably personally ordered the concealment of OBL 1km from the Pak military academy

 

[KRAIT]

Musharaf that son of a ***** wasted our taxpayer dollars for military aid when he probably personally ordered the concealment of OBL 1km from the Pak military academy

He wanted your taxpayer dollars for longer period of time that's why he hid OBL at first place.

 

[Windjammer]

Not convinced we won Kargil: Lt Gen Kishan Pal to NDTV


New Delhi: A General who led the Indian Army on ground in the Kargil conflict, has broken his 11-year silence to say that he believes India actually lost the war in strategic terms.

In an exclusive interview to NDTV, Lieutenant-General Kishan Pal, who was then the head of the Srinagar-based 15 Corps, says India has failed to consolidate its tactical gains.

Asked for his assessment of the conflict 11 years later, Gen Pal told NDTV: "Well for 11 years I did not speak at all...I did not speak because I was never convinced about this war, whether we really won it...We did gain some tactical victories, we regained the territories we lost, we lost 587 precious lives. I consider this loss of war because whatever we gained from the war has not been consolidated, either politically or diplomatically. It has not been consolidated militarily."


Gen Pal was recently in a controversy involving the battle performance report of one of his juniors, Brigadier Devinder Singh.

Not convinced we won Kargil: Lt Gen Kishan Pal to NDTV | NDTV.com

 

[truthseer]

Musharaf that son of a ***** wasted our taxpayer dollars for military aid when he probably personally ordered the concealment of OBL 1km from the Pak military academy

And we're going to keep having your dollars. Cry us a river, why don't you? Does it hurt that we have your money? Awwww... so sad. Blame Obama now

Too bad we have your money and you're in debt

 

[Indrajith]

Not convinced we won Kargil: Lt Gen Kishan Pal to NDTV


New Delhi: A General who led the Indian Army on ground in the Kargil conflict, has broken his 11-year silence to say that he believes India actually lost the war in strategic terms.

In an exclusive interview to NDTV, Lieutenant-General Kishan Pal, who was then the head of the Srinagar-based 15 Corps, says India has failed to consolidate its tactical gains.

Asked for his assessment of the conflict 11 years later, Gen Pal told NDTV: "Well for 11 years I did not speak at all...I did not speak because I was never convinced about this war, whether we really won it...We did gain some tactical victories, we regained the territories we lost, we lost 587 precious lives. I consider this loss of war because whatever we gained from the war has not been consolidated, either politically or diplomatically. It has not been consolidated militarily."


Gen Pal was recently in a controversy involving the battle performance report of one of his juniors, Brigadier Devinder Singh.

Not convinced we won Kargil: Lt Gen Kishan Pal to NDTV | NDTV.com

What did LtGneral - say we didnt consolidate our tactical gains politically or diplomatically , that doesnt mean we lost the war, but we could have utilized our gains more

 

[mastaan]

Not convinced we won Kargil: Lt Gen Kishan Pal to NDTV


New Delhi: A General who led the Indian Army on ground in the Kargil conflict, has broken his 11-year silence to say that he believes India actually lost the war in strategic terms.

In an exclusive interview to NDTV, Lieutenant-General Kishan Pal, who was then the head of the Srinagar-based 15 Corps, says India has failed to consolidate its tactical gains.

Asked for his assessment of the conflict 11 years later, Gen Pal told NDTV: "Well for 11 years I did not speak at all...I did not speak because I was never convinced about this war, whether we really won it...We did gain some tactical victories, we regained the territories we lost, we lost 587 precious lives. I consider this loss of war because whatever we gained from the war has not been consolidated, either politically or diplomatically. It has not been consolidated militarily."


Gen Pal was recently in a controversy involving the battle performance report of one of his juniors, Brigadier Devinder Singh.

Not convinced we won Kargil: Lt Gen Kishan Pal to NDTV | NDTV.com

The General says, 'we could have done more to consolidate the gains and put Pakistan further to a corner. He is ruing a LOST opportunity'. Go and ask any NLI soldier about what had happened there and you will get a true account on what transpired... ha ha ha and you just get happy after reading the headline... lol... So much for your hate blinkers that you desperately are looking for a counter argument and all you can find is this!

We definitely should have done more to capture more than just recapturing lost ground. But, nevertheless, it is more of a philosophical debate.

To me, now the real question is this, what PA did to its soldiers - by simply disowning them; is that honorable? Isn't that the real unbecoming of an institution?

Fact is, your top most General (mushy) lied to the country and the masses just loved his stories. It's time for you guys to really seek an answer to this immature planning by your men in uniform and demand an answer to the disrespect meted out to the fallen.

 

[MilSpec]

The General says, 'we could have done more to consolidate the gains and put Pakistan further to a corner. He is ruing a LOST opportunity'. Go and ask any NLI soldier about what had happened there and you will get a true account on what transpired... ha ha ha and you just get happy after reading the headline... lol... So much for your hate blinkers that you desperately are looking for a counter argument and all you can find is this!

We definitely should have done more to capture more than just recapturing lost ground. But, nevertheless, it is more of a philosophical debate.

To me, now the real question is this, what PA did to its soldiers - by simply disowning them; is that honorable? Isn't that the real unbecoming of an institution?

Fact is, your top most General (mushy) lied to the country and the masses just loved his stories. It's time for you guys to really seek an answer to this immature planning by your men in uniform and demand an answer to the disrespect meted out to the fallen.

I think I agree with the general.... kargil was a missed opportunity for IA to open up other fronts and pressurize pakistan. We would have definately taken losses, but we could have dished out more and crippled pakistani military infrastructure. Eventually our economy would have absorbed our losses, but pakistan would have taken way longer. I am in no way saying it would be a walk in the park, it would be extremely difficult, but India will not get another chance to do this in the future, technology is only going to close the technological gap between the two countries. Kargil could have been spilled into other arenas, inflicting heavier damage to Pak, it was a missed oppurtunity due to novice policymakers who were caught by surprise....

As far as pakistan is concerned, initial infiltration was a sucessfull tactical ploy... After that resupply, occupation and support was huge logistical and military failure.. political effort is not worth mentioning because it will offend pakistani members.

 

[mastaan]

I think I agree with the general.... kargil was a missed opportunity for IA to open up other fronts and pressurize pakistan. We would have definately taken losses, but we could have dished out more and crippled pakistani military infrastructure. Eventually our economy would have absorbed our losses, but pakistan would have taken way longer. I am in no way saying it would be a walk in the park, it would be extremely difficult, but India will not get another chance to do this in the future, technology is only going to close the technological gap between the two countries. Kargil could have been spilled into other arenas, inflicting heavier damage to Pak, it was a missed oppurtunity due to novice policymakers who were caught by surprise....

As far as pakistan is concerned, initial infiltration was a sucessfull tactical ploy... After that resupply, occupation and support was huge logistical and military failure.. political effort is not worth mentioning because it will offend pakistani members.

Sup mate... trust it's going well...

I can tell you that I have a lot of faith in our neighbors that they will come calling some day soon and give us another opportunity. But still, I do believe that we do NOT need a war of any kind... It is about time that sub-continent sees some peace. But, yes, if there is a next time, I'd hope to have stronger political class to take the thing to some conclusive end...

 

[MilSpec]

Sup mate... trust it's going well...

I can tell you that I have a lot of faith in our neighbors that they will come calling some day soon and give us another opportunity. But still, I do believe that we do need a war of any kind... It is about time that sub-continent sees some peace. But, yes, if there is a next time, I'd hope to have stronger political class to take the thing to some conclusive end...

All is well

that only time will tell.... things will heat up, but post 9/11 i doubt pakistan doing any thing of kargil scale... next 10-15 years are going to be pretty chill imo... Subversive activities in the region will see a growth in employment...

 

[Windjammer]

It's ironic how the words of Pakistani Generals puts the wind in Indian sails, yet what the Indian commanders or media discloses doesn't float your boat....suffice to say, India never won all the Kargil battles nor did it achieve all the objectives.

Pakistan still occupies four kargil peaks

On July 26, the country celebrates Vijay Diwas to commemorate India’s victory in the Kargil war. But five years since the war, four strategic Indian posts in Kargil are still under Pakistani control and the government is not ready to spell out the truth, reports VK Shashikumar

Point 5353, Bunker Ridge, Saddle Ridge, Dalu Nag. These are posts in the Kargil sector that the soldiers of the Indian army knew incontrovertibly to be their own. They form a sort of memory map of disjointed emplacements along the treacherous mountains in the Kargil sector. Features that are joined in various military maps of the area by dotted lines.

Army sources confirmed to Tehelka that at least two of these features are under Pakistani control, thanks to botched up military operations and a government that wanted to hide the truth. The fate of the other two features, Dalu Nag and Bunker Ridge, is still shrouded in mystery.

“Dalu Nag is certainly in the Kargil sector, but it has a history of its own since the 1980s. It has nothing to do with Kargil operations. Some parts of Dalu Nag may have been occupied by them at that time,” former army chief Ved Prakash Malik told Tehelka. “I do not know what exact locations are being referred to by these names,” he added referring to Saddle Ridge and Bunker Ridge.

For the officers and jawans ordered to engage the intruders in a near-impossible battle, this is more humiliating than the government’s negation of the gains made by the army in the 1965 war. But then, Kargil would probably have never happened if the Tashkent Agreement was not signed in 1965. Even in 1999, India gave Pakistan a walkover and enabled it to retain territory that was always under Indian control. And then, the government misled the nation that Kargil had been cleared of all Pakistani intruders.

Former defence minister George Fernandes, argued that the LoC runs over Pt 5353 and, therefore, was unoccupied by either countries till Kargil happened. A point which is not true.

Ironically, though it was the bjp-led government that hid the truth, the Congress-led upa government is also reluctant to clarify. Tehelka sent a questionnaire to Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee asking him to spell out the truth about the four posts. But at the time of going to print, he had not replied.

Meanwhile, within the army at the level of middle and junior level officers and the brave jawans, there is discontent. Any army unit that has done its tour of duty in Kargil after the war in the summer of 1999 has heard about the secrets locked up in the forbidding heights.

Perhaps it is painful for the army top brass to admit that Operation Vijay was not really an unalloyed victory.

Tehelka - The People's Paper