No, Mughals didn't loot India. They made us rich

[itsanufy]

Defined as

"through the observance of any ceremony, the participation in any procession, the creation of a financial trust, the construction of a temple, or any actions to commemorate or honor the memory of a widow who committed sati"

Do you have a point ?

You omitted this
prohibit glorification of this action
Simply if you glorifying sati you are violating the law

 

[sankranti]

You omitted this
prohibit glorification of this action
Simply if you glorifying sati you are violating the law

Repeating yourself twice does not make you right even once. Just makes you a fool who keeps repeating himself.

Now If you want to debate further apologize for your bigotry and withdraw your False remarks which you were unable to prove.

 

[itsanufy]

Repeating yourself twice does not make you right even once. Just makes you a fool who keeps repeating himself.

Now If you want to debate further apologize for your bigotry and withdraw your False remarks which you were unable to prove.

But police can catch you. You are breaking law by glorifying sati.

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

Sati is self immolation, not "widow burning". A demonstration of true love, dedication and courage.

Excuse me? A demonstration of love? Are you retarded?

A body on fire can sustain its own flame for a long time. Your body fat can serve as a fuel source for the fire. Clothing can act like a wick and feed the fat into the flame. Under these circumstances, a body can continue to burn for up to seven hours.

Burning to death is the worst way to die, hands down. I don't care how in love they were, no sane reasonable human would willingly consent to self-immolation.


FYI, Bringing up a fantasy series with dragons is not a good point to bring up in a argument about the real world and actually burning to death. Especially since she didn't go in there to die with her husband's corpse, if you read the book you would have realized that nitwit.

 

[sankranti]

But police can catch you. You are breaking law by glorifying sati.

In that case you better file a police complaint and post the FIR to prove your point.

Excuse me? A demonstration of love? Are you retarded?

A body on fire can sustain its own flame for a long time. Your body fat can serve as a fuel source for the fire. Clothing can act like a wick and feed the fat into the flame. Under these circumstances, a body can continue to burn for up to seven hours.

Burning to death is the worst way to die, hands down. I don't care how in love they were, no sane reasonable human would willingly consent to self-immolation.

FYI, Bringing up a fantasy series with dragons is not a good point to bring up in a argument about the real world and actually burning to death. Especially since she didn't go in there to die with her husband's corpse, if you read the book you would have realized that nitwit.

Irrespective of how fascinating you find the burning of a human body, it does not change the reality that a $hit load of people take their lives in a variety of ways all around the world and for a variety of reasons.

Call it Temporary insanity or depression or whatever you want to call it. The reality will not change to suite your prejudice and pre conceived notions.

I am not interested in debating what is the worst way to die. Maybe you find such morbidity fascinating, not me. Irrespective of WHY someone jumps into a fire, the reality is that fiction choose to depict it as an act of remorse or love. And funnily enough, its not even from a Hindu culture.

Certainly a lot better than the Pharaohs who killed their retainers and got them buried with him.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

it would have been much better if Mughals have treated Hindus in a similar the western colonists treated Red Indians and Blacks

it was a land based empire....no matter how bad over land invaders might be, there is still a level of acceptance and continuity...maritime expansion is seen as unnatural and exceptionally evil by all human cultures...Were Mughals Bad? ----Yes.....Were they Indians? Yes



Were British bad? Yes
Were they Indians? No


This is why I hate the false equivalencies between the British and the Ottomans

 

[padamchen]

it was a land based empire....no matter how bad over land invaders might be, there is still a level of acceptance and continuity...maritime expansion is seen as unnatural and exceptionally evil by all human cultures...Were Mughals Bad? ----Yes.....Were they Indians? Yes



Were British bad? Yes
Were they Indians? No

This is why I hate the false equivalencies between the British and the Ottomans

The Mongols, Hannibal, Alexander, were all overlanders.

As were the Arabs who invaded Persia and India.

Also, what do you call the settlers who came by sea, on the eastern seaboard, and then moved across a continent over a hundred years and multiple generations? Seafarers or overlanders?

Cheers, Doc

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

The Mongols, Hannibal, Alexander, were all overlanders.

Cheers, Doc

And the Mongols are not seen in that bad a light by the Han Chinese as the Japanese are. one was land invasion and the other maritime

Japan stopped seeing itself as a petty island people, and started seeing themselves as a race protected by the Gods, after the successive defeats of the maritime invasions of the Mongols


The red Indian populace could not at first see the Ships as they could not fathom something so big can come across the water...They needed special psychedelic concoctions from the Shamans in order to see the ships

point is Maritime invasions are seen as more momentous, tragic and evil by human cultures




The white Europeans themselves suffered immensely under the unnatural maritime invasions of the Vikings....They got PTSD...and 5-800 years down the line they were reminding the whole world of their own suffering

 

[padamchen]

And the Mongols are not seen in that bad a light by the Han Chinese as the Japanese are. one was land invasion and the other maritime

Japan stopped seeing itself as a petty island people, and started seeing themselves as a race protected by the Gods, after the successive defeats of the maritime invasions of the Mongols

The red Indian populace could not at first see the Ships as they could not fathom something so big can come across the water...They needed special psychedelic concoctions from the Shamans in order to see the ships

The white Europeans themselves suffered immensely under the unnatural maritime invasions of the Vikings....They got PTSD...and 5-800 years down the line they were reminding the whole world of their own suffering

I think its all to do with whether a culture assimilates and digests the alien life form, or continues to carry it as a tumor.

My personal theory is that unlike the previous waves over 5000 years, the assimilation and digestion of Muslim wave in India was interrupted by the British.

Hence what we see as the unnatural civilizational mutation on the subcontinent today.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

The Mongols, Hannibal, Alexander, were all overlanders.

As were the Arabs who invaded Persia and India.

Also, what do you call the settlers who came by sea, on the eastern seaboard, and then moved across a continent over a hundred years and multiple generations? Seafarers or overlanders?

Cheers, Doc

that means one civilization was completely vanquished by another civilization due to excessive difference in human achievement and capabilities..and the new civilization claims the land...the survivors of the old civilization can make protestations till they die out or assimilated out of existence, but it won't matter much

by vanquishment of a civilization I primarily mean their thought processes, their way of looking at the world and interpreting Reality and Existence...

All worldviews/interpretations of Rerality are in a constant struggle with eachother till one becomes King of the Hill and the process restarts

I think its all to do with whether a culture assimilates and digests the alien life form, or continues to carry it as a tumor.

My personal theory is that unlike the previous waves over 5000 years, the assimilation and digestion of Muslim wave in India was interrupted by the British.

Hence what we see as the unnatural civilizational mutation on the subcontinent today.

Cheers, Doc

Fair point......I think I would agree and also make some observations

One way is to look at the History of the Middle East (Iraq,Syria,Kuwait,Jordan,Lebanon,Israel)

It was such an awe-inspiring stream/series of civilizations......But its most defining character would be that Invaders would come in from the Persian plateau,Zagros Mountains,Steppes,Armenia, they would establish rule over the populace, get assimilated and the process would repeat....Ibn Khaldun's Asabiyyah Theory...............But during that whole process from roughly 3500-3000 BCE to Achaemenid conquest , it was THE cultural and human achievement centre of the world ....the assimilation power of Middle East was stupendous


The Achaemenid and the subsequent Alexandrian conquest was something catastrophic, from which the Middle-East has not been able to recover for the last 2,300 years

It has been the plaything of other empires

one may see English conquest of the subcontinent , the same as Alexandrian conquest of the Middle East...everything kind of got fractured because of the immense body blow both Dharmic (Hindu/Buddhist) and Muslim views of the world suffered in the hands of Enlightenment Era Rationalist view of the world

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

A bit late in the day, but a few points.

1. If Mr Madison's work is correct, it means that India's share of the GDP peaked during "Hindoo" rule- at 29% or thereabouts in 1000AD. By the peak of Mughal rule it actually declined to 24%.
2. It is a valid point that Brits took money out of India but the Mughals didnt. But the former did, because they could. The latter cudnt even if they had wanted to. I mean how exactly they cud have taken money anywhere? and more importantly where to- Samarkand? from where they got their asses kicked in the first place. In short if they didnt take money out it was a pure case of as we say in Hindi "majboori ka naam mahatma g@ndu"
3. Sure, if the Mughals deserve credit for what they did- India's 24% GDP share and all the beautiful tombs and mosques, they equally deserve discredit for what they didnt. No great institutions, no great centres of education, no great scientists, inventors, discoveries. The period over which they ruled India, saw in Europe the Renaissance, The Age of Discovery, Enlightenment all of which led to the Industrial Revolution and the Age of Empires. What did we see in India?

Regards

best post on the thread

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

Excuse me? A demonstration of love? Are you retarded?

A body on fire can sustain its own flame for a long time. Your body fat can serve as a fuel source for the fire. Clothing can act like a wick and feed the fat into the flame. Under these circumstances, a body can continue to burn for up to seven hours.

Burning to death is the worst way to die, hands down. I don't care how in love they were, no sane reasonable human would willingly consent to self-immolation.


FYI, Bringing up a fantasy series with dragons is not a good point to bring up in a argument about the real world and actually burning to death. Especially since she didn't go in there to die with her husband's corpse, if you read the book you would have realized that nitwit.

You lose consciousness way way before that...Not seven hours

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

You lose consciousness way way before that...Not seven hours

Do you tie them to a stake? If not then it's most likely going to be 7 hours, they would lose all feeling after 4-5 hours because by then the vast majority of nerves would be ruined.

One way is to look at the History of the Middle East (Iraq,Syria,Kuwait,Jordan,Lebanon,Israel)

*Palestine

You also forget about Egypt.

But its most defining character would be that Invaders would come in from the Persian plateau,Zagros Mountains,Steppes,Armenia, they would establish rule over the populace, get assimilated and the process would repeat.

Yeah, absolutely not.

they would establish rule over the populace, get assimilated and the process would repeat

None of this happened with your non-existent invaders from Armenia. Persia never took any steps of assimilation in the ancient Middle East because Persia hadn't yet developed a unique culture.

All worldviews/interpretations of Rerality are in a constant struggle with each other till one becomes King of the Hill and the process restarts

*reality

That is definitely not how it works. Worldviews/interpretations do not disappear or die off, neither do they have a battle royale to determine who is best.

immense body blow both Dharmic (Hindu/Buddhist) and Muslim views of the world suffered in the hands of Enlightenment Era Rationalist view of the world

What? This is a completely nonsensical view of the colonization of the Middle East with no real evidence to back up your claims.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

@EgyptianAmerican ..I deliberately left out Egypt as it has been left out in the maps..and egypt is considered North Africa

immense body blow both Dharmic (Hindu/Buddhist) and Muslim views of the world suffered in the hands of Enlightenment Era Rationalist view of the world

I was talking of in the Indian context....Since 1687 onwards Whites have been developing a rational secular model of the Universe without any spiritual element...This is what 18th century Enlightenment was all about...with this philosophy they invented machines, massively improved artilleries, canons, gunpowder weapons, made explosive shells etc etc.............The political result of Enlightenment was the 1789 French Revolution......


Anyways the Increasingly secular Rational view of the world of the Europeans won out over the Islamic view of the world of Indian Muslims and the Dharmic view of the world of Indian Hindus



If Muslims had Pegasus,Hindus had Brahmastras (mythical superweapons),Christians had healing superpowers or Buddhists had teleportation abilities, secular White civilization would not have been dominating the world


even when Chinese are ascendant, they are ascendant through Western Science and Tech and not through Traditional Chinese Medicine, Taoist superpowers or Tai Chi..They tried though during the Boxer Rebellion and failed miserably...This was one of the major reasons why Mao's atheist revolution succeeded 50 years later

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

Only a narrow minded person with a prejudcied mind will see the "horror" while others respect and recognize individual choice.

Not really because unlike you I believe in science and know that no sane human being would burn to death. We all know you force women to do that because most likely all of them disagreed with the notion of dying.

That is YOUR POINT OF VIEW DICKHEAD. Others have a different POV. Learn to be less of a intolerant jihadi.

It's explicitly said in both the books and show dipshit. It isn't a matter of opinion, it's a fact. If you had bothered to read or watch either than you would have STFU by now.

Why would I bother to read a demented fantasy book. I actually have a interesting life unlike you to seek relief in fantasy

What is wrong with reading fantasy? It's sorta ironic how intolerant and bigoted you are and still have the audacity to call others that.

I have an interesting life but unlike you, I have an appreciation for works of literature and imagination and not advocating for such a horrific practices like forcing women to self-immolate themselves after the death of their husbands.

If all it took was fire to wake the dragons, there is no need to jump into her husbands pyer. She could have just built a seperate fire and stepped into that.

Only someone as narrow minded as your will insist his POV is the correct one while everyone else is "wrong". LOL at your jihadi mentality.